Dream Chaser, SASS #79316 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Got hold of some Trail Boss and some Bullseye and have a new shooter with a Dillon 650 . Which of these two powders woukd be best for some wimpy 38 special loads with a 105 bullet and some soft semi-auto 9mm loads with maybe a 124 gr bullet? If you have load data you would like to pm me it would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Can't list loads on the forum. Bullseye, would be the last powder I would use in this game. GOGGLE may have your ans. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I don't have loads for .38 Special with a 105 grain bullet, but I DO have something for some very mild loads with Trailboss in that caliber with a 158 grain bullet. Let me know if you want the details. As far as 9mm goes... Trail Boss will not work with it. Let's just say that with a max charge, it does not have enough "oomph" to cycle the action. (It won't work with .38 Super either. But it MIGHT work with ,38 ACP. I'll have to get a gun in that caliber to be sure...) On the other hand, if you have a revolver or a derringer in 9mm, then TB would make a very nice load for use in that. The only autoloading caliber I've been able to get to work with Trail Boss is .45 ACP. I have no experience with Bullseye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Just atarting out I would use the trailboss. Impossible to get double charges and you can visually see if you have enough powder in the case. It is also easy to figure out the min and max loads for trailboss for any cartridge. IMR gives you the formula here http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf From my personal experience stay 2 or 3 tenths of a grain above the minimums for trailboss in 38 spcl. When loading right at the minimum it doesn't seem to burn as clean. I sent you a PM with the data for trailboss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Our family has used nothing but Bullseye since we started shooting CAS. It works great in the 650s we have (3 of em). I could never get our 650s to dump consistent loads with samples of TrailBoss I got at various shoots to try. I tried all sizes of the Dillon powder bars. If you PM me, I will forward the jBullseye load we use and about a dozen other cowboy shooters use for Bullseye and 105 g bullets (and load on their 650s). You can get over 2000 rounds from each pound of Bullseye. How many rounds can you get from a pound of Trail Boss? Now compare the cost of Bullseye versus Trail Boss on a bullets per pound basis then convert to bullets per dollar spent on powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spittoon O Tool SASS #62053 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Our family has used nothing but Bullseye since we started shooting CAS. It works great in the 650s we have (3 of em). I could never get our 650s to dump consistent loads with samples of TrailBoss I got at various shoots to try. I tried all sizes of the Dillon powder bars. If you PM me, I will forward the jBullseye load we use and about a dozen other cowboy shooters use for Bullseye and 105 g bullets (and load on their 650s). You can get over 2000 rounds from each pound of Bullseye. How many rounds can you get from a pound of Trail Boss? Now compare the cost of Bullseye versus Trail Boss on a bullets per pound basis then convert to bullets per dollar spent on powder. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkey Creek Vic 80846 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Trail Boss with Dillon you must use large powder bar. Also dose not burn clean on lower end of loading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.T Chambers, SASS#76185 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Our family has used nothing but Bullseye since we started shooting CAS. It works great in the 650s we have (3 of em). I could never get our 650s to dump consistent loads with samples of TrailBoss I got at various shoots to try. I tried all sizes of the Dillon powder bars. If you PM me, I will forward the jBullseye load we use and about a dozen other cowboy shooters use for Bullseye and 105 g bullets (and load on their 650s). You can get over 2000 rounds from each pound of Bullseye. How many rounds can you get from a pound of Trail Boss? Now compare the cost of Bullseye versus Trail Boss on a bullets per pound basis then convert to bullets per dollar spent on powder. +1 +2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Here is one interesting thing we found with Bullseye and our cowboy loads. We use the same primer/Bullseye load (in grains) in 105 g, 125 g and 147 g and get almost the same velocity (about 750 fps). We use Colorado Cast bullets which are all truncated cone shape and the crimp groove is exactly the same distance to the pointy end of the bullet, so externally they all look almost identical (actually the flat point gets wider as the weight goes up) and load to the same overall length. Thus as the bullet weight goes up, the volume in the brass after powder gets smaller consequently the pressures go up to push the heavier bullet at almost the same velocity. What is nice is that if the 105 g bullet works well in your rife, the rest will likely too as they shape is the same and overall length is the same. This may be true of other powders, but I have never tried it. Of course if you want more velocity for some really heavy 147 g knockdown loads for even more pesky knockdowns, you have a lot of room to further bump up the (Bullseye load) velocity. You should find these loads in the loading manuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCatcher Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Got hold of some Trail Boss and some Bullseye and have a new shooter with a Dillon 650 . Which of these two powders woukd be best for some wimpy 38 special loads with a 105 bullet and some soft semi-auto 9mm loads with maybe a 124 gr bullet? If you have load data you would like to pm me it would be nice. Bullseye has been around since 1902 and the world has thoroughly explored what it can do in both .38 and 9mm. It is a very capable and excellently performing gunpowder. I have and will continue to use it for .380, .38. 9mm and .45 ACP. Go look up target loads using Bullseye and see what competition shooters have proven for one hundred years . . strengthen your google fu! Shadow Catcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrswanson1 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I've never had a problem with Trail Boss but I've only used it in 32-20, 44-40, and .45 Colt. A good crimp is really necessary to get a good burn with this powder. I'd use the Bullseye instead of TB for what you're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninety Caliber Al, 50218 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Can't list loads on the forum. Bullseye, would be the last powder I would use in this game. GOGGLE may have your ans. LG not lookin for an argument, just curious why you would say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 not lookin for an argument, just curious why you would say that? Used BE back in my NRA Comp dayz. Worked well enough. for .38 and 45acp. Found it to be to very temp. sensitive and good bit of lot to lot variation. Stayed with it for .38 Special and 148gn wadcutters out of both my S&W 52 and K-38. Switched the .45acp to WW231 and never looked back. I just found Unique to be the best all around powder for our game. I load ALL of my SASS ammo with it. Unique meters well-not much lot variance and is not that temp sensitive. YMMV, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventura Slim, SASS #35690 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 maybe go to mfg powder websites and see what they say. Start at the minimum and load 10 each on the way down and shoot paper. Show him how to change the powder for the samples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 For pistol competition, Bullseye is still the biggest seller. 231 is a dirty powder leaving small grit in the gun. It is unburned accellerant. My 650 meters Bullseye with the small powder bar always within +/- 0.1 g. I would consider that not very much variance in powder loads round to round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninety Caliber Al, 50218 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Used BE back in my NRA Comp dayz. Worked well enough. for .38 and 45acp. Found it to be to very temp. sensitive and good bit of lot to lot variation. Stayed with it for .38 Special and 148gn wadcutters out of both my S&W 52 and K-38. Switched the .45acp to WW231 and never looked back. I just found Unique to be the best all around powder for our game. I load ALL of my SASS ammo with it. Unique meters well-not much lot variance and is not that temp sensitive. YMMV, LG Wow...I live in Oklahoma( famous for changing weather) and have not found it so . In addition, it meters great......just my opinion, thanks for responding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Never said it didn't meter well-It does. What one lot gave you in fps at say 3gns. Next lot you would have go up or down sometimes 1/2gn to stay with that target fps. Then, the temp sensitivity would drive you nutz also. Have'n the same/constant fps was very important in NRA Bullseye matches. Not so much in SASS- LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I think bullseye is a good powder. I've used pounds of it in 38 and 45 acp. My chronograph tells me its one of the most consistant 45acp and 9mm powders around! With that said,it's going to perform best in a small case cartridge like 38, 9mm, 45acp, 32, 380. That's the view from my saddle:) Yours may be different;) Regards Ringer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Irish Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I have not used Trail Boss. Bullseye is versatile I use it in .38, .45 and 9mm with very good success. Makes an excellent light .38 load for SASS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream Chaser, SASS #79316 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Excellent replies. Appreciate each and every one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullett Sass 19707 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Our family has used nothing but Bullseye since we started shooting CAS. It works great in the 650s we have (3 of em). I could never get our 650s to dump consistent loads with samples of TrailBoss I got at various shoots to try. I tried all sizes of the Dillon powder bars. If you PM me, I will forward the jBullseye load we use and about a dozen other cowboy shooters use for Bullseye and 105 g bullets (and load on their 650s). You can get over 2000 rounds from each pound of Bullseye. How many rounds can you get from a pound of Trail Boss? Now compare the cost of Bullseye versus Trail Boss on a bullets per pound basis then convert to bullets per dollar spent on powder. +1 I use it in 32s,38s,45acp and 9mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 It appears that for 38 spl shooting Trail Boss costs almost double the cost of shooting Bullseye. Now if you could just get the powders for the prices and loads I looked up. Remember Trail Boss has a tiny following compared to Bullseye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 In answer to your original question, Bullseye would work quite well in both. Used it for years. Trail Boss works great in the 38 Special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alferd Packer Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 BULLSEYE There are other powders just as good, but cost, and accuracy, None better. You will pay somewhat more money to equal Bullseye in the long run. It was the powder they loaded the first .45 acp's with and used all during the First and Second WW and Korea. It was used to load the 30-06 Guard Cartridges and used for gallery practice loads in the 30-06 from before the first World War and will still work today. That was done to save money and because it worked so well. The powder Elmer Keith in his books recommended was best used for a target load in .45 colt under a 250 grain bullet was Be in the same quantity used to load in the .45 ACP 230 Gov't full power load. I also read that Bullseye was the first smokeless powder loaded in the .38 special when they were upgrading it from Black Powder and changing to smokeless powder. It hasn't lost its usefulness, it just has competition that advertises their products and of course Bulls eye needs no introduction except to newcomers. Like any powder, its best to buy your powder in large containers if you shoot a lot and there will be no lot to lot variations for loads worked up for that lot of powder. Any variation found in Bullseye from one lot to the next is the same found in any and all powders. I like TrailBoss, but its apples and oranges to compare the two. TB is just some new powder that costs a lot more to burn and fills cases much better if you are in to that and don't mind the extra costs, but black powder has always been around to fill cases. All IMHO. AP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bo bean 61280 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I use clays in everything, now I'm saving clays for cowboy shooting, lucky I found trailboss for other loads and a extra lite for shotgun. so I shoot what I can find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 BULLSEYE There are other powders just as good, but cost, and accuracy, None better. You will pay somewhat more money to equal Bullseye in the long run. It was the powder they loaded the first .45 acp's with and used all during the First and Second WW and Korea. It was used to load the 30-06 Guard Cartridges and used for gallery practice loads in the 30-06 from before the first World War and will still work today. That was done to save money and because it worked so well. The powder Elmer Keith in his books recommended was best used for a target load in .45 colt under a 250 grain bullet was Be in the same quantity used to load in the .45 ACP 230 Gov't full power load. I also read that Bullseye was the first smokeless powder loaded in the .38 special when they were upgrading it from Black Powder and changing to smokeless powder. It hasn't lost its usefulness, it just has competition that advertises their products and of course Bulls eye needs no introduction except to newcomers. Like any powder, its best to buy your powder in large containers if you shoot a lot and there will be no lot to lot variations for loads worked up for that lot of powder. Any variation found in Bullseye from one lot to the next is the same found in any and all powders. I like TrailBoss, but its apples and oranges to compare the two. TB is just some new powder that costs a lot more to burn and fills cases much better if you are in to that and don't mind the extra costs, but black powder has always been around to fill cases. All IMHO. AP Disagree- You can't load shotgun or large caliber rifle(.45-70) with BE. You can with Unique- Back in my NRA Bullseye dayz(1968-1988), I saw first hand the temp sensitivity of BE in my NM .45 acp built by Jim Hoag. The lot to lot deal I proved to myownself with the crono- YMMV, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Disagree- You can't load shotgun or large caliber rifle(.45-70) with BE. You can with Unique- Back in my NRA Bullseye dayz(1968-1988), I saw first hand the temp sensitivity of BE in my NM .45 acp built by Jim Hoag. The lot to lot deal I proved to myownself with the crono- YMMV, LG Disagree totally with the statement that you cannot load shotgun with Bullseye. It was a listed load for many years for low recoil loads in lots of load books including Lyman's Shotshell Reloading Handbook. A couple of years ago I used up an 8 lb keg of Bullseye that I inherited in 7/8 oz. and 1 oz. 12 ga. target loads. Yes it was pretty dirty burning, but the targets broke just the same. Not the Ideal powder for that use, but it will work quite well. In today's powder shortage, I would not hesitate to use it if that was what I had. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backshootin beauford mcgee Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I like unique, but I'd pick Bullseye over Trail Boss any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Disagree totally with the statement that you cannot load shotgun with Bullseye. It was a listed load for many years for low recoil loads in lots of load books including Lyman's Shotshell Reloading Handbook. A couple of years ago I used up an 8 lb keg of Bullseye that I inherited in 7/8 oz. and 1 oz. 12 ga. target loads. Yes it was pretty dirty burning, but the targets broke just the same. Not the Ideal powder for that use, but it will work quite well. In today's powder shortage, I would not hesitate to use it if that was what I had. RBK Alliant does NOT show any load data for Bullseye for any shotgun gauge, nor is Bullseye even listed under shotgun loads. Just maybe, the powder maker knows somedangthing you don't. http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/shotshell.aspx BTW-You will see that Unique is listed under shotgun powder. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 The Lyman Shotshell Hanbook contains several 12 GA loads for Bullseye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Yes, that is quite correct. Been there, Done that. Shot 8 lbs recently. Worked just fine. Lumpy just doesn't like Bullseye period, so is only stating his personal opinion, not fact. He's dead wrong, but doubtful he will ever admit it. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Yes, that is quite correct. Been there, Done that. Shot 8 lbs recently. Worked just fine. Lumpy just doesn't like Bullseye period, so is only stating his personal opinion, not fact. He's dead wrong, but doubtful he will ever admit it. RBK Wrong-How? Your the one that don't like facts. Lyman isn't a powder maker and doesn't have the lab that Alliant has. Show me, on Alliant's site(Maker of Bullseye)ANY shotgun loading info with Bullseye. You can't. Gee, wonder WHY? What could the powder's maker know????? I will trust the powder's maker first, over all others. Just because you can-Doesn't mean you should. Your mind is made up.-I just brought some FACTS along is all-- Carry on, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Alliant does not have loads in their manuals for the bulk of the bullets we shoot in our rifles and pistols either. Many times we find Alliant loads in other trusted sources such as Lyman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Alliant also does not list a loading in Unique for 45-70, but I know I and tons of other cowboys use it for that. There are other trusted sources. NOTE: WEB FORUMS ARE NOT TO BE CONSIDERED TRUSTED SOURCES! Just because ole SneakySnake says its OK to load 87 grains of bigbang pwder in a 38 sp with a 95 grn bullet and a mag primer does not mean its ok! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Alliant also does not list a loading in Unique for 45-70, but I know I and tons of other cowboys use it for that. There are other trusted sources. NOTE: WEB FORUMS ARE NOT TO BE CONSIDERED TRUSTED SOURCES! Just because ole SneakySnake says its OK to load 87 grains of bigbang pwder in a 38 sp with a 95 grn bullet and a mag primer does not mean its ok! They don't now-WTH? That is where I got my Unique load for my .45-70/1886 a few years back. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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