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Rule "change" - Open & Empty


Misty Moonshine

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Go here http://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/RO-I%20Vers%2019_8.pdf

 

Go to page 17, paragraph 17, read, interpret and apply.

 

Best I can tell we are right back where we were with more words to add to the confusion and a suggestion that nobody else touch the gun.

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i got it...I got it........Discarded is defined as that millisecond when you worked lever or latch on double after you think you fired your last round for that long gun. Thus if there is no round/empty in said long gun and you, in fact, did fire appropriate round count, your long gun was open and empty at "discard". For whatever reason it appears to be closed in its final resting place, it will be brought to your attention and you, and only you, will show that long gun is indeed empty. NO CALL....however if a empty or round is in long gun then you get the do-dads. I know, I'm dreaming...wake me up at PM meeting Larsen.

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So regardless of how the lever becomes closed, if it is not cleared prior to shooting the next gun it is a minor safety?

Cleared and Open are two different things aren't they?

 

Did you mean to ask "if the ACTION is not opened prior to shooting the next gun is it a minor safety?"

 

Did it close after being discarded?

Yes = No call

No= MSV

 

For what's worth can anyone come up with an example of a gun closing AFTER it was discarded?

 

Stan

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Cleared and Open are two different things aren't they?

 

Did you mean to ask "if the ACTION is not opened prior to shooting the next gun is it a minor safety?"

 

Did it close after being discarded?

Yes = No call

No= MSV

 

For what's worth can anyone come up with an example of a gun closing AFTER it was discarded?

 

Stan

Yes, that is what I meant to ask. I can not find in the books anymore where it says that if it closes after being discarded it is a no call. It seems that no matter how it closes if you shoot the next gun you have earned a MSV.

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For what's worth can anyone come up with an example of a gun closing AFTER it was discarded?

 

Stan

Shooter restages rifle/sxs , open & empty, very carefully in vertical rack,,,, then thunders down the boardwalk to next shooting position and the vibrations of the boardwalk causes the super loose action to close.

 

butterfly lands on the lever or barrel of super slick gun and causes the action to close..

 

Since Assian (sp) & BK thinks the percentile of action closing upon restaging is practically nill for a match,,warranting a no call,,, why are we worrying about this whole subject?

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Cleared and Open are two different things aren't they?

 

Did you mean to ask "if the ACTION is not opened prior to shooting the next gun is it a minor safety?"

 

Did it close after being discarded?

Yes = No call

No= MSV

 

For what's worth can anyone come up with an example of a gun closing AFTER it was discarded?

 

Stan

If there was a coffin........ Wait that's a different ordeal.

 

Two long guns on the same table. Restage rifle and when picking up shotgun bump the lever with shotgun stock and lever closes.

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For what's worth can anyone come up with an example of a gun closing AFTER it was discarded?

 

Yeah! That darn monkey with the football jumped on it!

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I just read PWBs synopsis.

 

If I am reading it right, the only thing to save a shooter from a MSV when the action closes for any reason, intentional or inadvertent is to go back and open it before the first shot from the next gun is fired, OR if the TO somehow determines that it was prop failure.

 

Is that right?

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Cleared and Open are two different things aren't they?

 

Did you mean to ask "if the ACTION is not opened prior to shooting the next gun is it a minor safety?"

 

Did it close after being discarded?

Yes = No call

No= MSV

 

For what's worth can anyone come up with an example of a gun closing AFTER it was discarded?

 

Stan

I put rifle down, open & empty. Stock is hanging over table a little. I twist, to make sure somebody doesn't call me for breaking the 170, as I pull my crossdraw. Hip hits rifle, pushing it forward and it closes

Put rifle down. Put SG down. SG pushes lever closed.

Put SG down. Put rifle down. Rifle pushes SG closed.

Can come up with plenty more if you want.

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Maybe I'm just simple minded but I don't see where this is that hard to understand. Discarded is when the gun leaves the shooters hands. If you still have it in hand you have not discarded it. The rule says "Long guns will be discarded with their actions left open and the actions/magazine/barrels empty at the conclusion of each shooting string." If the action is open and empty when the gun leaves the shooter's hands then they have complied with this part of the rule. If the gun somehow closes after it leaves the shooter's hands then at the conclusion of the stage the shooter will show clear to the RO and if it is empty then it's a no call.

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Maybe I'm just simple minded but I don't see where this is that hard to understand. Discarded is when the gun leaves the shooters hands. If you still have it in hand you have not discarded it. The rule says "Long guns will be discarded with their actions left open and the actions/magazine/barrels empty at the conclusion of each shooting string." If the action is open and empty when the gun leaves the shooter's hands then they have complied with this part of the rule. If the gun somehow closes after it leaves the shooter's hands then at the conclusion of the stage the shooter will show clear to the RO and if it is empty then it's a no call.

I just read the synopsis and don't see where it's a no call.

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Maybe I'm just simple minded but I don't see where this is that hard to understand. Discarded is when the gun leaves the shooters hands. If you still have it in hand you have not discarded it. The rule says "Long guns will be discarded with their actions left open and the actions/magazine/barrels empty at the conclusion of each shooting string." If the action is open and empty when the gun leaves the shooter's hands then they have complied with this part of the rule. If the gun somehow closes after it leaves the shooter's hands then at the conclusion of the stage the shooter will show clear to the RO and if it is empty then it's a no call.

Read the New, New,New rule. It does not work that way anymore.

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Maybe I'm just simple minded but I don't see where this is that hard to understand. Discarded is when the gun leaves the shooters hands. If you still have it in hand you have not discarded it. The rule says "Long guns will be discarded with their actions left open and the actions/magazine/barrels empty at the conclusion of each shooting string." If the action is open and empty when the gun leaves the shooter's hands then they have complied with this part of the rule. If the gun somehow closes after it leaves the shooter's hands then at the conclusion of the stage the shooter will show clear to the RO and if it is empty then it's a no call.

 

Read the New, New,New rule. It does not work that way anymore.

I have read the latest rules. It says "If the action of a long gun closes after being discarded open and empty, the shooter will, at the conclusion of the

stage, show it to be clear to the TO or a spotter. Appropriate penalties will be applied if it is not clear"
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I have read the latest rules. It says "If the action of a long gun closes after being discarded open and empty, the shooter will, at the conclusion of the

stage, show it to be clear to the TO or a spotter. Appropriate penalties will be applied if it is not clear"

 

 

That one place suggests that the only penalties involved would be if the gun was not clear, but in several other places it says otherwise

 

 

5. A safe and sturdy place should be provided at each stage to position the shooter’s firearms and is mandatory to use. Whether or not they are available, it is the shooter’s responsibility to take reasonable care in putting down the gun. If the gun falls or closes, the Range Officer shall make the determination of fault: either Prop Failure or Safety Violation as appropriate.

RO1 p.21

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Boy oh boy, this should be a good posse marshal meeting Wednesday :)

Phantom I might need you with me for back up !!!!! :)

 

Good luck buddy, and good luck in the match as well.

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Boy oh boy, this should be a good posse marshal meeting Wednesday :)

Phantom I might need you with me for back up !!!!! :)

Make sure you bring a flashlight. The meeting could run well into the evening. -_-

I'm also bringing a stool. Not sure how long I can stand before needing a little respite.

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How is that?

17. Long guns will have their actions left open and the actions/magazines/barrels empty at the conclusion of each shooting string. A 10 second minor safety penalty will be assessed if the firearm is not cleared or opened. This condition may be corrected prior to the next round being fired.

 

If the gun is not cleared this rule applies.

 

Minor Safety Penalties

• Leaving empty or live rounds in magazine or carrier of the long gun in which it was loaded.

 

Also this rule was broken. I am not sure if this would be considered double jeopardy because of it being the same round or 2 penalties due to 2 distinctly separate rules being broken.

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That one place suggests that the only penalties involved would be if the gun was not clear, but in several other places it says otherwise

 

Hey Grizz, I missed the one about closing on the prop. So it looks like we are back to what it was before the convention other than now we have definitions on what is open and closed actions.

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