Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Go here http://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/RO-I%20Vers%2019_8.pdf Go to page 17, paragraph 17, read, interpret and apply. Best I can tell we are right back where we were with more words to add to the confusion and a suggestion that nobody else touch the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 After he does, will you pass the splaination on? Yep, when you do please PM me the short version.....as in "YES" or "NO" Thanks, and Good Luck at EOT J R-E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 As soon as the online versions of the SHB & RO1 have been updated for reference, a synopsis of the changes should be posted. Come on, guys... You are not waiting for the synopsis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Whew! Thanks for the reminder, Jack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 i got it...I got it........Discarded is defined as that millisecond when you worked lever or latch on double after you think you fired your last round for that long gun. Thus if there is no round/empty in said long gun and you, in fact, did fire appropriate round count, your long gun was open and empty at "discard". For whatever reason it appears to be closed in its final resting place, it will be brought to your attention and you, and only you, will show that long gun is indeed empty. NO CALL....however if a empty or round is in long gun then you get the do-dads. I know, I'm dreaming...wake me up at PM meeting Larsen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 So regardless of how the lever becomes closed, if it is not cleared prior to shooting the next gun it is a minor safety?Cleared and Open are two different things aren't they? Did you mean to ask "if the ACTION is not opened prior to shooting the next gun is it a minor safety?" Did it close after being discarded? Yes = No call No= MSV For what's worth can anyone come up with an example of a gun closing AFTER it was discarded? Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 re-staged on a cow or horse prop put down lever up. restaged vertically and lever finishes closing after shooter no longer has contact with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Cleared and Open are two different things aren't they? Did you mean to ask "if the ACTION is not opened prior to shooting the next gun is it a minor safety?" Did it close after being discarded? Yes = No call No= MSV For what's worth can anyone come up with an example of a gun closing AFTER it was discarded? Stan Yes, that is what I meant to ask. I can not find in the books anymore where it says that if it closes after being discarded it is a no call. It seems that no matter how it closes if you shoot the next gun you have earned a MSV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I'm gonna save me a headache tonight. I'll just have Stan splain it to me tomorrow me too AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Best I can tell we are right back where we were with more words to add to the confusion and a suggestion that nobody else touch the gun. That's exactly what I gather from reading RO1 pg 17 #17. Where's the accidental closed no call mumbo jumbo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 For what's worth can anyone come up with an example of a gun closing AFTER it was discarded? Stan Shooter restages rifle/sxs , open & empty, very carefully in vertical rack,,,, then thunders down the boardwalk to next shooting position and the vibrations of the boardwalk causes the super loose action to close. butterfly lands on the lever or barrel of super slick gun and causes the action to close.. Since Assian (sp) & BK thinks the percentile of action closing upon restaging is practically nill for a match,,warranting a no call,,, why are we worrying about this whole subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Cleared and Open are two different things aren't they? Did you mean to ask "if the ACTION is not opened prior to shooting the next gun is it a minor safety?" Did it close after being discarded? Yes = No call No= MSV For what's worth can anyone come up with an example of a gun closing AFTER it was discarded? Stan If there was a coffin........ Wait that's a different ordeal. Two long guns on the same table. Restage rifle and when picking up shotgun bump the lever with shotgun stock and lever closes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 This ought to clear it up. http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=223735 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 For what's worth can anyone come up with an example of a gun closing AFTER it was discarded? Yeah! That darn monkey with the football jumped on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I just read PWBs synopsis. If I am reading it right, the only thing to save a shooter from a MSV when the action closes for any reason, intentional or inadvertent is to go back and open it before the first shot from the next gun is fired, OR if the TO somehow determines that it was prop failure. Is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beartrap SASS#57175 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Cleared and Open are two different things aren't they? Did you mean to ask "if the ACTION is not opened prior to shooting the next gun is it a minor safety?" Did it close after being discarded? Yes = No call No= MSV For what's worth can anyone come up with an example of a gun closing AFTER it was discarded? Stan I put rifle down, open & empty. Stock is hanging over table a little. I twist, to make sure somebody doesn't call me for breaking the 170, as I pull my crossdraw. Hip hits rifle, pushing it forward and it closes Put rifle down. Put SG down. SG pushes lever closed. Put SG down. Put rifle down. Rifle pushes SG closed. Can come up with plenty more if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missouri Marshal SASS #50682 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Maybe I'm just simple minded but I don't see where this is that hard to understand. Discarded is when the gun leaves the shooters hands. If you still have it in hand you have not discarded it. The rule says "Long guns will be discarded with their actions left open and the actions/magazine/barrels empty at the conclusion of each shooting string." If the action is open and empty when the gun leaves the shooter's hands then they have complied with this part of the rule. If the gun somehow closes after it leaves the shooter's hands then at the conclusion of the stage the shooter will show clear to the RO and if it is empty then it's a no call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Maybe I'm just simple minded but I don't see where this is that hard to understand. Discarded is when the gun leaves the shooters hands. If you still have it in hand you have not discarded it. The rule says "Long guns will be discarded with their actions left open and the actions/magazine/barrels empty at the conclusion of each shooting string." If the action is open and empty when the gun leaves the shooter's hands then they have complied with this part of the rule. If the gun somehow closes after it leaves the shooter's hands then at the conclusion of the stage the shooter will show clear to the RO and if it is empty then it's a no call. I just read the synopsis and don't see where it's a no call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Maybe I'm just simple minded but I don't see where this is that hard to understand. Discarded is when the gun leaves the shooters hands. If you still have it in hand you have not discarded it. The rule says "Long guns will be discarded with their actions left open and the actions/magazine/barrels empty at the conclusion of each shooting string." If the action is open and empty when the gun leaves the shooter's hands then they have complied with this part of the rule. If the gun somehow closes after it leaves the shooter's hands then at the conclusion of the stage the shooter will show clear to the RO and if it is empty then it's a no call. Read the New, New,New rule. It does not work that way anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beartrap SASS#57175 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I wonder If the next instructional video out will be: How to drop long guns on a table from 1' up, while hollering "malfunction" for good measure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 With the newnewnew rule it does not matter if you drop it or not. If it closes and you do not open it before firing the first shot from the next gun it is a MSV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missouri Marshal SASS #50682 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Maybe I'm just simple minded but I don't see where this is that hard to understand. Discarded is when the gun leaves the shooters hands. If you still have it in hand you have not discarded it. The rule says "Long guns will be discarded with their actions left open and the actions/magazine/barrels empty at the conclusion of each shooting string." If the action is open and empty when the gun leaves the shooter's hands then they have complied with this part of the rule. If the gun somehow closes after it leaves the shooter's hands then at the conclusion of the stage the shooter will show clear to the RO and if it is empty then it's a no call. Read the New, New,New rule. It does not work that way anymore. I have read the latest rules. It says "If the action of a long gun closes after being discarded open and empty, the shooter will, at the conclusion of the stage, show it to be clear to the TO or a spotter. Appropriate penalties will be applied if it is not clear" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I have read the latest rules. It says "If the action of a long gun closes after being discarded open and empty, the shooter will, at the conclusion of the stage, show it to be clear to the TO or a spotter. Appropriate penalties will be applied if it is not clear" That one place suggests that the only penalties involved would be if the gun was not clear, but in several other places it says otherwise 5. A safe and sturdy place should be provided at each stage to position the shooter’s firearms and is mandatory to use. Whether or not they are available, it is the shooter’s responsibility to take reasonable care in putting down the gun. If the gun falls or closes, the Range Officer shall make the determination of fault: either Prop Failure or Safety Violation as appropriate. RO1 p.21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick McClade Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Boy oh boy, this should be a good posse marshal meeting Wednesday Phantom I might need you with me for back up !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Boy oh boy, this should be a good posse marshal meeting Wednesday Phantom I might need you with me for back up !!!!! Good luck buddy, and good luck in the match as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 It looks like leaving any round, loaded or empty in any long gun will now result in 2 MSVs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Boy oh boy, this should be a good posse marshal meeting Wednesday Phantom I might need you with me for back up !!!!! Make sure you bring a flashlight. The meeting could run well into the evening. I'm also bringing a stool. Not sure how long I can stand before needing a little respite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I, for one, plan to hang out near the garbage cans on each stage to collect some of these discarded long guns. Looking to buy some empty gun carts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 They say that one of those LED lanterns will provide light for 20,000 hrs...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 It looks like leaving any round, loaded or empty in any long gun will now result in 2 MSVs.How is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Does any body remember what they originally had us vote on ?😝 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 How is that? 17. Long guns will have their actions left open and the actions/magazines/barrels empty at the conclusion of each shooting string. A 10 second minor safety penalty will be assessed if the firearm is not cleared or opened. This condition may be corrected prior to the next round being fired. If the gun is not cleared this rule applies. Minor Safety Penalties • Leaving empty or live rounds in magazine or carrier of the long gun in which it was loaded. Also this rule was broken. I am not sure if this would be considered double jeopardy because of it being the same round or 2 penalties due to 2 distinctly separate rules being broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Never mind, I see it now. It is just a weird way to reiterate the same rule. only one penalty would apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missouri Marshal SASS #50682 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 That one place suggests that the only penalties involved would be if the gun was not clear, but in several other places it says otherwise Hey Grizz, I missed the one about closing on the prop. So it looks like we are back to what it was before the convention other than now we have definitions on what is open and closed actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Never mind, I see it now. It is just a weird way to reiterate the same rule. only one penalty would apply.Right....honestly I'm happy that the double penalty is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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