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jrswanson1

Yet another shotgun question

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Are short barreled shotguns, as defined by the NFA, legal for SASS? Assume I have the tax stamp for it. Thanks.

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NO.

 

REF: SHB p.4

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According to the handbook, no.

 

Shotgun barrels must maintain a length of at least 18 inches.

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Interesting. Are pistol gripped shotguns allowed? I didn't read anything about stocks in there.

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Are pistol gripped shotguns allowed?

 

An unmentioned-in-rules external modification. No, not allowed. Could always submit a proposal to the Rules Committee. Most likely it won't be approved.

 

The external modifications you can make on any gun are spelled out in the rules. All others are prohibited until an accepted modification request has been recorded.

 

 

 

I didn't read anything about stocks in there.

 

Hard to have missed this one.

 

Shooter's Handbook, page 3.

 

Only the modifications referenced here as allowed are approved. All others are illegal.

 

Good luck, GJ

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Continue on to the next page

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Not a mod, as Taylor's is offering a pistol grip Chiappa 87 shotgun. Does that really count as a mod if it's built that way from the start?

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STOCKS AND GRIPS

The length or style of stock may be altered or replaced (e.g., a carbine style stock may be

interchanged for a rifle stock and vice-versa).

 

Why would a shotgun stock shortened to the PG not be legal, Provided to OA length is at least 30 inches?

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Go back and read page 3 again, on the part that says, even if a modern factory makes something illegal under SASS rules, it's still illegal.

 

 

 

Why would a shotgun stock shortened to the PG not be legal

 

Can you say, Mare's Leg? Not legal as a rifle. Not legal as a pistol, either.

 

 

Good luck, GJ

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Then there is Mississippi in El Dorado and the guy in The Adventures of Brisco County Junior.

 

So it is within the movie part of SASS.

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Go back and read page 3 again, on the part that says, even if a modern factory makes something illegal under SASS rules, it's still illegal.

 

 

Can you say, Mare's Leg? Not legal as a rifle. Not legal as a pistol, either.

 

 

Good luck, GJ

 

My entire quote references a legal length SG, 30 inches. A mare's leg is built and registered as a pistol, with the shorter than 16 inch barrel. So are you saying that shortened stocks are not legal? I know that 2 of my three SKB's have shortened stocks, all of my Model 12's and 97's do as well. I also know that most buckaroos shoot shorter than factory stocks, as well as a lot of smaller statured adults. I see no prohibition in SASS rules against shortening the buttstock, provided the OA length remains legal.

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STOCKS AND GRIPS

The length or style of stock may be altered or replaced (e.g., a carbine style stock may be

interchanged for a rifle stock and vice-versa).

 

Why would a shotgun stock shortened to the PG not be legal, Provided to OA length is at least 30 inches?

 

 

OA length for shotguns by federal mandate, full stock or pistol gripped is 28" not 30. 26" OA for rifles. 18" barrel on shotguns and 16" for rifles.

 

I have seen vids of pards shooting cut off pistol grip 97s from the hip at CAS matches and they looked like they were having big fun. Grizzly Dave's vids I think.

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OK then, 28 inches. (damn know it all lawdawgs ;) )

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My entire quote references a legal length SG, 30 inches. A mare's leg is built and registered as a pistol, with the shorter than 16 inch barrel. So are you saying that shortened stocks are not legal? I know that 2 of my three SKB's have shortened stocks, all of my Model 12's and 97's do as well. I also know that most buckaroos shoot shorter than factory stocks, as well as a lot of smaller statured adults. I see no prohibition in SASS rules against shortening the buttstock, provided the OA length remains legal.

Shortened stocks are clearly a legal mod in the rules. Do you need that quoted too?

 

A stock "shortened" enough to be a pistol grip only is a mod that is NOT permitted by rules. As far as I have seen on posts right here over the years.

 

Good luck, GJ

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Shortened stocks are clearly a legal mod in the rules. Do you need that quoted too?

 

A stock "shortened" enough to be a pistol grip only is a mod that is NOT permitted by rules. As far as I have seen on posts right here over the years.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

No. I already quoted that rule. What I want to see is evidence that restricts the amount it may be shortened, not opinion.

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I think and my opinion is not worth a lot that you have a valid argument Goody. Shortening of stocks is legal. Shooting from the hip is legal. I do not see anywhere that anyone gets to say there is a limit to the shortening. No one.

 

So anyone telling a pard his shotgun stock is TOO short does not have a legitimate right to do so. No legal leg to stand on.

 

A loophole in the rules. You may not like it and think such a gun is an abomination but what are you gonna use to justify not allowing its use. You can't. Not under the current set of rules. Not even a gray area to my way of thinking.

 

PWB can we get an ROC clarification on this situation?

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I have seen vids of pards shooting cut off pistol grip 97s from the hip at CAS matches and they looked like they were having big fun. Grizzly Dave's vids I think.

 

Here's one for ya...

 

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The ROC was discussing the "Bootleg" 1887 a month ago...failed to come to a consensus.

If we don't get it settled in the next week or so, I'll put it on the agenda for our EoT meeting.

 

There are rules that seem to either allow or prohibit a pistol-gripped shotgun (of any model).

Their appearance & use in movies does NOT provide any "bona fides" as to their legality for CAS use.

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ROC majority opinion is that cutting a stock down to a "pistol-grip" is NOT ALLOWED.

That would also apply to a long gun manufactured with a "pistol-grip" instead of a full-size buttstock.

 

The INTENT of the rule allowing alteration of the length of the stock was so it could be fitted to individuals for safe & comfortable use.

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Thank you for the timely response. I assume that there will be something added to the shooters handbook detailing just how far it may be cut? As it is it seems a very arbitrary call, subject to the whims of the individual opinion.

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I wouldn't "assume" anything.

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Well, poop. Guess I'll have to wait for the EoT meeting to decide if I'm picking up the pistol grip shotgun.

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Well, poop. Guess I'll have to wait for the EoT meeting to decide if I'm picking up the pistol grip shotgun.

 

Please see post #20...this was settled via email vote.

 

PWB

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Please see post #20...this was settled via email vote.

 

PWB

 

Got it, thanks PWB.

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So the person shooting in the video on post 18 is shooting a illegal shotgun?

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So the person shooting in the video on post 18 is shooting a illegal shotgun?

 

It would appear so.

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I'll bet Joe Dirt is ecstatic the question got asked here on the SASS wire.

 

Nobody gave a damn... now we have an opinion.

 

Reminds me of the shotgun belt thread.

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As with the shotgun belt issue (which, BTW, was brought to the attention of the ROC prior to a major match); assumptions were made as to the legality of certain equipment by a manufacturer or an individual shooter.

The RO Committee was asked to make a determination regarding legality of that equipment under current rules...those determinations were made and posted on the public forum.

 

The preamble of the SHB "Firearms Covenants" is quite clear in stating the process for getting "new" equipment or modifications reviewed and/or approved. (p.3)

..keeping in mind that the answer will NOT always be "OK".

 

If one isn't certain...one should always ask...BEFORE going on ahead and using it in a match.

 

JMO

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I see the value of a stock.........

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I'll bet Joe Dirt is ecstatic the question got asked here on the SASS wire.

 

Nobody gave a damn... now we have an opinion.

 

Reminds me of the shotgun belt thread.

 

 

Better to find out now. Then to show up at a big match and get DQed for it.

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Is that sling legal PWB?.... :unsure:

Always wanted to put a leather one on my Hammered double

but thought it was illegal.

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SHB Pg. 4

 

• Slings are allowed on long guns. Lanyards are allowed on handguns.

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