Frustrating IAC 97' issue

[jrswanson1]

'97 being discussed not '87.

 

Just seein' if everyone was paying attention

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

A few minutes after staring this thread Larsen Pettifogger sent me a diagnosis. It appears he hit it. A action hook that was slightly out of spec. Swapped it out with a different one and problem has disappeared. Thanks guys for the suggestions and thanks Larsen!

Interesting...good info.

 

Thanks!!

 

Phantom

[Guest Maker-Wright]

Hmmm... I know I don't get out as much as I maybe should, but I've never seen any action hook problem that causes the tip of the shell to nose down like that.

 

Maybe they've come out with some sort of slide/mag follower interlock I'm not aware of yet.

 

Hopefully it works out.

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

Well before I could repeat it on demand pretty much. Now I can't get it to do it at all. The mag tube is clean and the follower protrudes as much as my 4 other IAC"s. It doesn't have to make sense to me, just glad it works as it should LOL. Thanks again guys.

[Hurricane Deck 100366]

Like I said. Action Hook.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Ok, I can replicate the problem, Deuce. In guns with good action hooks. Known-to-be-Factory hooks in the Chinese guns I tested.

 

Pulled out some IAC's (2 97s in the 090 series, and one in the 010 series). All three, when the action is open 100% of the way, have enough clearance between the top edge of the carrier and the back edge of the receiver (just below the mag tube) that a 12 gauge shell will slip down into the gap, nose between the carrier edge and the receiver. And it slips far enough that just working the slide will usually not clear it. You have to stick a finger in the port and push the base of the shell toward the bolt until somewhat level.

 

The only real Win 97 I've got is a series E takedown, and there is NOT enough room in it's action to let the nose jam down. The nose will tip down, but working the action easily pops the nose back up and carrier can lift it right to chamber.

 

All of these guns run to some degree, at least running with shells thrown in the port. So, don't think there is anything wrong with any of these guns, except the Chinese building them with too big a gap there to be 100% reliable when throwing in shells with the muzzle down at 45 degrees or so. They won't tip coming in from the mag, nor if throwing singles in when gun is above about 30 degree down angle.

 

The action hook you installed may be built so it takes up enough of the gap (by not letting the carrier drop so far) to prevent the problem, but in general, I think there is a bigger gap in the IAC's that lets the problem occur.

 

So, think you have discovered another dimensional difference between the Chinese 97s and the Winchesters.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Guest Maker-Wright]

Ok, I can replicate the problem, Deuce. In guns with good action hooks. Known-to-be-Factory hooks in the Chinese guns I tested.

 

Pulled out some IAC's (2 97s in the 090 series, and one in the 010 series). All three, when the action is open 100% of the way, have enough clearance between the top edge of the carrier and the back edge of the receiver (just below the mag tube) that a 12 gauge shell will slip down into the gap, nose between the carrier edge and the receiver. And it slips far enough that just working the slide will usually not clear it. You have to stick a finger in the port and push the base of the shell toward the bolt until somewhat level.

 

The only real Win 97 I've got is a series E takedown, and there is NOT enough room in it's action to let the nose jam down. The nose will tip down, but working the action easily pops the nose back up and carrier can lift it right to chamber.

 

All of these guns run to some degree, at least running with shells thrown in the port. So, don't think there is anything wrong with any of these guns, except the Chinese building them with too big a gap there to be 100% reliable when throwing in shells with the muzzle down at 45 degrees or so. They won't tip coming in from the mag, nor if throwing singles in when gun is above about 30 degree down angle.

 

The action hook you installed may be built so it takes up enough of the gap (by not letting the carrier drop so far) to prevent the problem, but in general, I think there is a bigger gap in the IAC's that lets the problem occur.

 

So, think you have discovered another dimensional difference between the Chinese 97s and the Winchesters.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

Gentlemen, I'd like to add one more possibility...

 

To replace the slide hook, one must remove and reinstall the magazine tube, yes?...

 

FWIW, In my opinion, it's more plausible that the last time the gun had been reassembled, the mag tube wasn't spun in completely. 1 rotation could draw the mag tube, and thus the follower, out of the action far enough to cause a fairly stout bind between the nose of the shell and top of the tube opening. A shell can be placed in the action, and made to bind even with the mag tube spun in fully, but if the shell is tossed in, and the slide is worked with any gusto at all, the nose of the shell will still pop over the mag tube opening. If the mag tube follower were in it's proper place, I can't imagine a shell being thrown exactly into the gap, and not bobbling over the mag tube opening, time after time, with Deuce aggressively running the action.

 

I believe it's possible that when Deuce reinstalled the mag tube after installing the new hook, the tube was then spun in to it's correct depth, thus relieving the problem.

[Grizzly Dave]

I"m glad you all figured it out, I was gonna say that the do-hickey on the thing-a-ma-bob just ain't quite right, but I figured you might not know what I was talking about :D

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

 

Gentlemen, I'd like to add one more possibility...

 

To replace the slide hook, one must remove and reinstall the magazine tube, yes?...

 

FWIW, In my opinion, it's more plausible that the last time the gun had been reassembled, the mag tube wasn't spun in completely. 1 rotation could draw the mag tube, and thus the follower, out of the action far enough to cause a fairly stout bind between the nose of the shell and top of the tube opening. A shell can be placed in the action, and made to bind even with the mag tube spun in fully, but if the shell is tossed in, and the slide is worked with any gusto at all, the nose of the shell will still pop over the mag tube opening. If the mag tube follower were in it's proper place, I can't imagine a shell being thrown exactly into the gap, and not bobbling over the mag tube opening, time after time, with Deuce aggressively running the action.

 

I believe it's possible that when Deuce reinstalled the mag tube after installing the new hook, the tube was then spun in to it's correct depth, thus relieving the problem.

I can 100% gurantee the mag tube was reinstalled in the exact position in which it came off from.

[Guest Maker-Wright]

I"m glad you all figured it out, I was gonna say that the do-hickey on the thing-a-ma-bob just ain't quite right, but I figured you might not know what I was talking about :D

 

I've had a backorder in place for half a dozen thing-a-ma-bobs, and ten do-hickeys, for the last six months, from Gizmos"R"us.com. Takes a long time for stuff to get here from the far-off exotic land of Taiwaniastanville. BTW, Make sure that you put a dab of Ickem-puckey between the do-hickey and the thing-a-ma-bob, or it'll leak for sure come the first full moon.

 

I can 100% gurantee the mag tube was reinstalled in the exact position in which it came off from.

 

Okie-Doke.

[Guest Maker-Wright]

BTW Grizz, I hope you're completely over the crud, and to see you at Pawnee on Saturday.

[Grizzly Dave]

BTW Grizz, I hope you're completely over the crud, and to see you at Pawnee on Saturday.

 

Still some lingering issues, but nothing that will keep me away from the range hopefully.