What would you do?

[Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884]

Because some folks couldn't be polite, a recent thread I started about improper clothing at SASS matches was locked.

 

The point of it was I mentioned seeing a video recently where one of the participants in a top gun shoot-out was wearing what appeared to be a logoed t-shirt.

 

My personal opinion about "costuming" in CAS is this...When I try to describe CAS to someone unfamiliar with it, it goes something like... "Have you heard of 3 gun competitions where the competitors run around shooting a variety of guns, a shotgun, pistol, and rifle? Now imagine the same thing but with guns that don't cock themselves and the competitor is doing it wearing a corset, long prairie dress, and a floppy hat." Needless to say, the clothing we wear is important to me whether it's minimalist within the rules, or full blown B-Western.

 

Well, I bought this up here, (in the most ambiguous way), AND directly to the person in the video and have now suffered the most severe social media punishment. I have been unfriended and blocked.

 

Would you be willing to mention an infraction like I illustrated, knowing there might be retribution?

 

Fillmore

[Bad Hand]

Yes I would.

[The Shoer 27979]

all I can say Fillmore is they were no friend to start with

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

I do not need to say anything. It is in the rules of the game/sport.

 

SHB p. 1 "The truly unique aspect of Cowboy Action Shooting™ is the requirement placed on authentic period or western screen dress. Each participant is required to adopt a shooting alias appropriate to a character or profession of the late 19th century, or a Hollywood western star, and develop a costume accordingly."

 

p. 3 " Participants may choose the style of costume they wish to wear, but all clothing must be typical of the late 19th century, a B-western movie, or Western television series. SASS puts a great deal of emphasis on costuming because it adds so much to the uniqueness of our game and helps create a festive, informal atmosphere that supports the friendly, fraternal feeling we encourage in our competitors. All shooters must be in costume, and we encourage invited guests and family also to be costumed. Shooters must remain in costume at all match events: dinners, award ceremonies, dances, etcetera. ALL clothing and equipment MUST be worn appropriately, how it was intended and how it would have been worn in the OLD WEST or as seen on B-Western movies and television."

 

p. 26 ROI "ILLEGAL ITEMS
The following are examples of SASS “illegal” items. The current version of the SASS Handbook should always be used as an additional reference for illegal items. The use or presence of any outlawed item is a Stage Disqualification. • Holsters departing from the vertical by more than 30 degrees when worn • Two main match revolvers worn on the same side of the body • Modern shooting gloves • Short sleeve shirts (Male competitors only) • Short sleeved tee shirts, long sleeved tee shirts, and tank tops for all competitors. (Long sleeved Henley type shirts with buttons are allowed.) • Modern feathered cowboy hats • Designer jeans • Ball caps • Tennis, running, jogging, aerobic or other modern athletic shoes, combat boots • Apparel displaying manufacturer’s, sponsor’s or team logos. Manufacturer’s labels on such apparel or equipment are acceptable. • Nylon, plastic, or Velcro accouterments."

[Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862]

Hey Fillmore, all we can do is live and learn. I might have handled it the same way, but in my case it would never come up as I don't do social media. If it matters to you that this person unfriended you it is one thing, and another if it doesn't.

Rules is rules, as we all know there are consequences when we don't follow them, especially when there is video....

[Straight Arrow Hombre]

The truth is never wrong.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Fillmore-That person was NEVER your 'friend'

He really did you a favor--

YOU, did nut'n wrong

LG

[Anvil Al #59168]

Not being there.

Not knowing what was going on.

Not being a State or above match.

Not being a member of that club.

No

None of my biz.

 

Up to each club to do what they want to.

Not be told from others far away.

 

Sorry just the way I see it.

 

Now State or above? Different.

 

Other wise. Let each club police there own.

 

Should I start telling clubs in other states how to run there club matches.

Or clubs that I am not a member of what to do.

I think not.

[Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884]

The "social" part of it was never an issue for me. I know who my friends are.

 

After being in this sport for a while, I guess I'm getting a little "possessive" about it. We are unique in the competitive shooting world, and that's what we are, competitive shooters. We have rules. If you want to play with us, follow the rules. If you don't agree with the rules, get them changed. That's all.

If you want to represent us in public, do it right, or at least try.

 

Fillmore

[Anvil Al #59168]

And some have done more out of costume than most will ever do in.

 

Not a State of above match.

A day after the match is over.

A day after the awards.

Almost every one is gone just a few stayed to play and have fun.

 

One of the funniest vides I have seen in awhile showing some of our very best

laughing and having fun and showing top shooters can laugh at themselves.

 

And then someone 1500 miles away that was not there is gong to tell them how to do it.

And what they are doing wrong.

[Ranger Clayton Conagher #43872]

Yup! We know that new shooters have dropped a boatload of cash on guns and may not have a bunch of costume money.

 

Wear a cowboy hat

 

Have a long sleave shirt

 

Have boots on your feet (lacer or cowboy)

 

That's all we ask at our club.

[COLORADO JACKSON]

And some have done more out of costume than most will ever do in.

 

Not a State of above match.

A day after the match is over.

A day after the awards.

Almost every one is gone just a few stayed to play and have fun.

 

One of the funniest vides I have seen in awhile showing some of our very best

laughing and having fun and showing top shooters can laugh at themselves.

 

And then someone 1500 miles away that was not there is gong to tell them how to do it.

And what they are doing wrong.

Amen Al

[Flying W Ramrod]

That's it Fillmore, I'm defriending you. NOT.

Yes, I would, and have done, the same. Don't care if they defriend me. Just trying to let the world know there's something I perceive as being not right.

Don't flinch, don't weaken, the sport needs people like you.

RR, (been defriended by the best, or worst, your choice)

[Lazarus Longshot, SASS #44254 Life]

And some have done more out of costume than most will ever do in.

 

Not a State of above match.

A day after the match is over.

A day after the awards.

Almost every one is gone just a few stayed to play and have fun.

 

One of the funniest vides I have seen in awhile showing some of our very best

laughing and having fun and showing top shooters can laugh at themselves.

 

And then someone 1500 miles away that was not there is gong to tell them how to do it.

And what they are doing wrong.

Sorry, Al,

I have to disagree. The man-on-man is part of the match. It ain't over. As Allie posted, proper attire should have been worn, since this was a match event. What other rules are you going to excuse them from following?

 

It sounds like you're excusing these folks 'cause they're having fun. If they have fun during the main match, does that excuse them from wearing proper costume? Honestly, a long-sleeve shirt isn't that much of a handicap......

 

Laz

 

Edited to add: I typed the above as a general statement. I've now seen (I think) the video that Fillmore mentioned, and so I believe I know who he's referring to. This took place at the man-on-man match as part of a club's annual match. As Al said, they've done a bunch for this sport. As such, I think that they should be amongst the first to support our rules. Not be excused from them. Displaying that video is a poor advertisement for our sport. I'm leaving names out on purpose, but they should know better than this.

 

Wallaby Jack's sig on the old Belle Alley pretty much summed it up for me:

 

... without costuming we are just another gun sport ...

... AND WE ARE SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT !!

 

I also think that Fillmore is owed an apology.

[Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884]

That's it Fillmore, I'm defriending you. NOT.

Yes, I would, and have done, the same. Don't care if they defriend me. Just trying to let the world know there's something I perceive as being not right.

Don't flinch, don't weaken, the sport needs people like you.

RR, (been defriended by the best, or worst, your choice)

http://www.marketmenot.com/esurance-beatrice-offline-over-sharer-commercial/

 

FC

[Captain Bill Burt]

 

Would you be willing to mention an infraction like I illustrated, knowing there might be retribution?

 

Fillmore

Do I think there was anything wrong with what you did, no. Would I have done it, not unless I was a match official at the time of the infraction in which case I would issue the appropriate penalty.

 

I like knowing the rules, that's why I got my ROII, why I follow 'what's the call' threads, and why I review the SHB and ROI and ROII manuals periodically.

 

However, when I'm at a match I try not to offer rules calls unless I'm the TO, or unless I'm asked. I participate to have fun, not to get stirred up over calls that often should be pretty straightforward, but end up not being. Like when a MD doesn't know that coming to the line with a cocked rifle is a SDQ and wants to argue it.

 

Make the call, explain if needed, then move on. If you're incorrectly overturned, don't serve in that capacity at that club again. Same deal if you're on the wrong end of a call, vote with your feet.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Don't sweat it. Enforcing the rules is a tough thing because it is amazing the number of people that knowingly ignore the rules and then get PO'd when they get called for it. I think the real issue isn't that they were breaking the rules, it's that they got caught and resent the one that caught them. That's why when people start talking about rule "Nazis" I go off the deep end. If you don't like the rules of the game, play a different game.

[Anvil Al #59168]

Sorry, Al,

I have to disagree. The man-on-man is part of the match. It ain't over. As Allie posted, proper attire should have been worn, since this was a match event. What other rules are you going to excuse them from following?

 

It sounds like you're excusing these folks 'cause they're having fun. If they have fun during the main match, does that excuse them from wearing proper costume? Honestly, a long-sleeve shirt isn't that much of a handicap......

 

Laz

 

 

I am fine with that. But that is UP TO THE MATCH OFFICALS.

Not someone 1500 miles away watching a vid.

If the match officials want to allow it. Which they did and they are right there.

It is up to them to correct it. Not someone 1500 miles away.

 

All they would have to do is walk over and say. Hey. Sorry. Can not let you in the man on man

without proper dress. DONE.

[Lazarus Longshot, SASS #44254 Life]

Yep, Al, that's what should have happened. Yet I still feel that the folks referred to should have known better. These are NOT new shooters by any means, and they knew they were flaunting the rules.

 

And "unfriending" Fillmore was just petty.

 

Laz

[Anvil Al #59168]

Yep, Al, that's what should have happened. Yet I still feel that the folks referred to should have known better. These are NOT new shooters by any means, and they knew they were flaunting the rules.

 

And "unfriending" Fillmore was just petty.

 

Laz

 

 

But we don't know what Fillmore posted to them to cause that post on FB to get deleted

or be unfriended do we???

But that is between them. Not my biz. OR anyone else on here.

 

I think if a CLUB member at that CLUB has a problem. They take it to the MD.

Not cast stones from 1500 miles away on how to do it.

 

Let the local clubs handle there own biz.

I am sure not gong to tell shooters in Cali how to run a match.

That is up to them.

Not me.

[Augustus Goodnight]

 

It is up to them to correct it. Not someone 1500 miles away.

 

 

Tell that to the Politicians and Bureaucrats in DC!!!

 

Get Western or Go Home!!!

[Black Angus McPherson]

Fillmore, I just saw this exact thing recently. A top shooter and it was definitely a "state or above" match. My opinion of the shooter declined because he's certainly had the time and oportunity to buy a much more cowboy type shirt. It was dissappointing. Did I say anything? No. Why? Because I've seen it here before. The reaction is usually "How dare you say something negative about (fill in the blank)? You're not fit to clean the horse crap off his boots. What right do you have to say anything about it?"

 

OK, I'll readily admit that, as far as shooting skill goes, I'm not even in the same county as the guy. But it still looks poorly on our sport and that persons respect for our rules. I have zero problem with people wearing jeans, I certainly don't consider myself a clothes nazi. I wear "duck" carhart jeans myself and I don't have the extra cash to spend the bucks to buy a cowboy style shirt for every occasion. But a long sleeve t-shirt? Come on, you're not even trying.

 

Oh, by the way, he was wearing a "cowboy" shirt at the banquet, so I know he owns at least one.

 

Angus

[Anvil Al #59168]

Tell that to the Politicians and Bureaucrats in DC!!!

 

 

 

 

That's my point.

 

It's up to that local club what they want to allow at a none state or above match.

 

That goes for dress, categories, stages, what ever.

 

P.S. I am not against making then dress per SASS rules. I am FOR letting

the club make that choice in a none State or above match.

[Grizzly Dave]

 

 

I am fine with that. But that is UP TO THE MATCH OFFICALS.

Not someone 1500 miles away watching a vid.

If the match officials want to allow it. Which they did and they are right there.

It is up to them to correct it. Not someone 1500 miles away.

 

All they would have to do is walk over and say. Hey. Sorry. Can not let you in the man on man

without proper dress. DONE.

 

I'm pretty much with all on this. It is up to match officials to enforce the rules as they see fit. They have boots on the ground and the authority to make a ruling at the time.

[Cypress Sun]

Everyone who hasn't been hiding under a rock should, by now, realize that they are on camera. Doesn't matter if they are participating in a SASS match, sitting at a traffic signal or shopping in a store..........you're on video. Play by the rules or suffer the results.

 

FC, you've done nothing wrong. The shooter in question (don't know, don't care) should have upheld the dress code at directed by the multiple manuals or declined to shoot.

 

CS

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

Hey Fillmore Coffins...

I'll still be yer friend..

I.. myself.. Don't think your post is inappropriate at all..

 

 

Rance

Thinkin' some folks just don't want to work with ya a get along

[Lorelei Longshot, SASS #44256 Life]

Sorry Al, I disagree. Rules are rules and are meant to be followed. Just because one gets away with it means others try and push the envelope at other matches. I'm glad THSS made the statement and wish other clubs would also. Costuming is part of the game. Too many clubs have gotten lax. Some just because they don't really care, others because they "assumed" that all the players know the rules and would abide by them. Some just missed it because they were too busy putting on a GREAT match. Only those who have participated from the beginning in planning and execution of a state or even a local club match can know all the stuff that needs to be done at all times.

 

Having worked for a large oil/chemical company and having planned numerous business meeting/free golf days, I know how difficult it can be scheduling EVERYTHING with plans changing and people changing their minds every five minutes. Not to mention all the behind the scene work that has to be done so everything runs smoothly and no one knows you're about to have a nervous breakdown if even one more person wants to change their reservation date, dinner menu, golf t time, or tennis court time, or alcohol and hors d'oevres (I know I can't spell it. But I had to order them anyway.)in the hospitality suite.

 

I have also participated in putting on state and club level matches and know from experience how many things can and do go wrong or are just simply overlooked because there are bigger fish to fry at the moment. Yes, it gets easier with more matches put on and with plain experience. Don't criticize until you have walked in their shoes for over a mile. Especially if they are mine which are size four and would kill your feet. (A little humor to lighten things up)

 

I believe the club now knows about it and will address in the future whether or not State or above. Beside the point because as Allie quoted the rules, they SHOULD be dressed in costume at ALL TIMES. It doesn't matter if it was the day after the match ended. It was the man-on-man for that match. Simple western shirt, jeans, boots, and hat is enough. It was the fact it was a logo t-shirt and not a replica "western" shirt. A simple Henley would have also worked without logos.

 

Kinda "catty" to unfriend Fillmore though.

[Smokestack SASS#87384]

Is this the video you guys are talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhSJ34qExhA

[Lorelei Longshot, SASS #44256 Life]

Hey Fillmore, I'll be your friend. I support you 100% and wish others wouldn't try to "game" the game and make excuses for their behavior. Doesn't seem very gentlemanly or part of "The Cowboy Way" in my mind.

 

 

Trying to get away with little things and getting away with it starts as a youngster. Of this I speak from 30 years as an elementary school teacher. It just gets worse the longer it is allowed to continue. These kids and their parents are the ones to scream the lowest about "it was just a SIMPLE mistake. He didn't mean it." Then when things finally get out of hand and LAWS are finally broken, they always have another excuse such as "He's just a kid. He didn't know any better. No one was REALLY hurt." Why didn't he know better?????

 

I'm a rule follower and that's that. If I don't like the rules I can either quit playing the game or follow the rules, or change the rules. At this point, I don't think the rules need to be changed. They are simple enough and easy enough for even new shooters to follow if they REALLY want to. Salvation Army and Goodwill help. Simple shirt, jeans, hat, and boots are enough to start. I don't expect every one to take costuming to the max, and I don't think you do either.

[Lorelei Longshot, SASS #44256 Life]

It is the one I was talking about, and I believe the club now knows about it, and it will be addressed in private and taken care of before the next major match. Privately is how it should have been handled, but once the video was posted for the world to see, some people had every right to make negative comments about the costuming because it is clearly stated in the SASS rules.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

If we're referring to the Man-on-Man at Plum Creek...then I can tell ya the philosophy of the event.

 

While it was the Sunday after the awards...it could...should be considered part of the event.

 

That said, it is also quite informal. Only a handful of folks come out and the purpose is to let off a little steam...relax...laugh...and generally enjoy the end of the match.

 

No awards...no nuthin.

 

So important that I purposely didn't bring SG rounds to what ended up being my last round of the Man-on-Man. Ended up emptying out one of my pistols, reloading...and KD'ing the SG targets my pistol.

 

Yes...I lost...couldn't have cared less...it was fun!!!

 

Then Colt Faro in the final had to contend with a SG hull that I attached over his rifle front sight while he was shooting his SG...boy...was he surprised!!!!

 

He lost too...and had a BLAST doing it!!!!

 

So...that's the story...

 

If this isn't about our match...then...nevermind.

 

Phantom

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

My post got lost...

 

If we're referring to the Man-on-Man at Plum Creek...then I can tell ya the philosophy of the event.

 

While it was the Sunday after the awards...it could...should be considered part of the event.

 

That said, it is also quite informal. Only a handful of folks come out and the purpose is to let off a little steam...relax...laugh...and generally enjoy the end of the match.

 

No awards...no nuthin.

 

So important that I purposely didn't bring SG rounds to what ended up being my last round of the Man-on-Man. Ended up emptying out one of my pistols, reloading...and KD'ing the SG targets my pistol.

 

Yes...I lost...couldn't have cared less...it was fun!!!

 

Then Colt Faro in the final had to contend with a SG hull that I attached over his rifle front sight while he was shooting...it was hilarious!!!!

 

He lost too...and had a blast!!!!!

 

If it's not about our match...then...nevermind.

 

Phantom

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Folks,

 

Please keep this in the theoretical. No naming names!

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Straight Arrow Hombre]

 

 

I am fine with that. But that is UP TO THE MATCH OFFICALS.

Not someone 1500 miles away watching a vid.

If the match officials want to allow it. Which they did and they are right there.

It is up to them to correct it. Not someone 1500 miles away.

 

All they would have to do is walk over and say. Hey. Sorry. Can not let you in the man on man

without proper dress. DONE.

I do agree that clubs should be able to police themselves, BUT...... The internet and video matter too. All shooters and especially top shooters are always under scrutiny.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

If we're referring to the Man-on-Man at...then I can tell ya the philosophy of the event.

 

While it was the Sunday after the awards...it could...should be considered part of the event.

 

That said, it is also quite informal. Only a handful of folks come out and the purpose is to let off a little steam...relax...laugh...and generally enjoy the end of the match.

 

No awards...no nuthin.

 

So important that I purposely didn't bring SG rounds to what ended up being my last round of the Man-on-Man. Ended up emptying out one of my pistols, reloading...and KD'ing the SG targets my pistol.

 

Yes...I lost...couldn't have cared less...it was fun!!!

 

So while I agree that costuming is fun and an essential part of our game, and I'm pretty much always in costume at the events, there are times and circumstances that allow for leeway...

 

Cheers!

 

Phantom