Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Captain Bill Burt

1897 Winchester Brush 12 Gauge

Recommended Posts

I just picked this baby up on Gunbroker. It's a solid frame with almost no blueing left. Some patina. The barrel was cut to 18 1/4 at some point. Minor pitting in the barrel and no bead. Serial number in the 74,000 range. The action is very slick, though ejection is weak. The seller said it had been gone over by a certified gunsmith and the mainspring replaced. I love it. I'm thinking refinish the stock, no sanding, then maybe reblue? Any need to get it slicked if it's already easy to run? The patent marks and Winchester are pretty clear, but I don't want to obscure them. I also don't want it to rust any more.

 

Any way to track it's history? I guess TR was running for office when it was made. Feels cool holding it, like holding history.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You better hurry up and buy two more of the 97s so you'll have at least one to shoot :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm havin a hard time learnin to run one. But I ain't much better with a sxs so why not. Good luck with it and always keep those SKBs close. And yea your gonna want at least two. Some say three but who has time to dry fire.

 

Ps. We do buy the ejection springs in bulk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

74,000 = 1900

Winchesterguns.com says 1899, but they have an asterisk that says estimated.

 

 

1897- 1 TO 32335

98- 64668

99 - 96999

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CK the left side extractor to see if the little leg is broken off.

Post up a picture--

LG

I have no idea, I'll look it up and check. Pics to follow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm havin a hard time learnin to run one. But I ain't much better with a sxs so why not. Good luck with it and always keep those SKBs close. And yea your gonna want at least two. Some say three but who has time to dry fire.

Ps. We do buy the ejection springs in bulk.

It will probably be more of a project than a regular part of the lineup. Where do you buy those springs and are there any other parts I should stock up on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, most likely it was made on a Thursday in 1899, as I recall. :D

 

As you mentioned, "was cut to 18 1/4 at some point." - that point was at the end. They tried at the middle, but finally figured out that wouldn't work as well. The bead is still laying on the floor of a shop in Michigan. Probably not very useful at this point..

 

http://marauder.homestead.com/shotgun.html

The ejection is controlled by a combination of the small ejector spring on the left of the frame and the left and right cartridge extractors (or cartridge guides) at the front of the bolt. Ideally, the empty shell should be held by the two extractors essentially parallel with the bolt. Then as the back of the shell hits the ejector spring - the spring will pop the shell out from the two cartridge guides.

 

If it doesn't eject hardly at all, it is normally the ejector spring.

 

If it barely ejects it is due to the cartridge guides. Normally the right one wears first, but the left one also acts as a leaf spring and that tail can break off. It is not too hard to replace the tail using a small coil spring. One of mine was done that way and the thing has lasted for 10 years an more than a few matches!

 

There are a few folks that make the replacement parts.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/Winchester-33573/Shotguns-42603/97SolidFrame-41825.htm

makes a good ejector spring and right ejector parts for very little $.

 

Unfortunately you have to go elsewhere for the left ejector as Numrich makes a poor one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And before you do anything else - REDUCE that hammer spring tension. If it is a stock spring it is WAY too strong and will wear the gun and make it harder to operate.

 

If we are not rained out, bring it tomorrow and we can discuss more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone else ever notice that when you buy a certain vehicle you start noticing that more of them on the road?

For SxS shooter to buy a 97, I think that it works the same. 'The 97 will ONLY be a hobby. I will stick to my SxS'

But at the next match you will start to notice some really top-level shooter blazing in the teens with a 97 and think 'that could be me'.

I like my 1897 and wish I had a couple. The gun just fits and looking at another JM Browning gun in the safe makes me happy. I still shoot the SxS faster, but I have much fewer misses with the 97.

Captain, you do not need two 97s. Get this one up and running. Your SxS that you are used to in your cart is your backup. I usually find that having a backup in the cart keeps that main gun running better. Its when the backup is in the vehicle or the gunsafe that problems arise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The left side extractor seems to be the most fragile part of the '97.

So much so-That when I'm handed any '97 that ain't ejecting well. IF-all the screws are tight and still act'n up. I'll pull the bolt. 9 out of 10 times the leg on the left side extractor is gone and has no tension.

The C&I extractor is very well made from quality metal.

The other place to look at, is the ejector screwed in from the left side. The tip must angle forward so there is a spring effect/action when the case rim hits it. Many poorly made aftermarket '97 ejectors are soft steel and bend back against the rec'r shoulder.

LG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the little ejector normally needs to be fitted to match the slot in the bolt. I haven't had trouble with the cheaper springs as long as I fit them. Otherwise, they will break almost immediately. So it is not a "drop in" part. (Are any??)

 

Some of the expensive springs are made a little smaller so less fitting is required but they can still break in some guns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Winchesterguns.com says 1899, but they have an asterisk that says estimated.

 

 

1897- 1 TO 32335

98- 64668

99 - 96999

 

IIRC, the '97 s/ns continued from where the 1893s left off. Half the ref's out there are off by a year or so.

(i.e. the first 1897 would have had s/n 32336)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

None of those parts are very expensive. I think I'll go ahead and buy left and right extractors/guides and an ejector spring. Thanks for all the feedback guys! Marauder, I know your webpage almost by heart. The first thing I looked at was that screw down through the ejection port. It's as loose as it can be without rubbing. I thought I would show it to you before locking it down with some blue Loctite.

 

Anybody have any thought about bluing or alternative rust prevention treatments? Or is it better just to leave it as is?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

IIRC, the '97 s/ns continued from where the 1893s left off. Half the ref's out there are off by a year or so.

(i.e. the first 1897 would have had s/n 32336)

So mine could very well have been manufactured in 1898, not 1899?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could get it blued to help with resiting rust. But first, i would wax the entire outside of the gun well with something like Flitz polish or any marine wax. That gives pretty good protection if you replace it once or twice a year.

 

The slide will wear anyway for action and will need continual oil or grease for protection as there are always some spots rubbed bare or it is bear... ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Go here and look at the section on 97s. These numbers are a much better resource. You'll see, like Palewolf said, that 97 numbers don't start with 1. Also look at the numbers for the 1893. 93 and 97 serial numbers overlapped for two years.

 

http://www.proofhouse.com/win/index.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

None of those parts are very expensive. I think I'll go ahead and buy left and right extractors/guides and an ejector spring. Thanks for all the feedback guys! Marauder, I know your webpage almost by heart. The first thing I looked at was that screw down through the ejection port. It's as loose as it can be without rubbing. I thought I would show it to you before locking it down with some blue Loctite.

 

 

Personally (and that's what it is; a personal preference) I would not reblue this Win97. A routine spray and wipedown with a quality modern gun fluid, such as BreakFree CLP will keep the rust off.

 

If the weapon is not worn out and it is maintained properly, it will be very reliable.

 

Hard to say exactly what the ejection problem is being caused by without seeing the weapon, but the fixes described related to the left-side extractor "leg" (really, just imagine it as a built-in leaf spring) being broken or snapped off or the ejector itself (that little spring mounted on the exterior of the left side of the receiver) being broken or bent out of shape, pretty much are the most common causes of ejection problems. Also, sometimes the right side extractor spring gets gunked up, but that's easy to remove and clean up.

 

It's true that in the days after parts dried up and before quality aftermarket left-side extractors became available, a fix for a broken left extractor was (if there was a piece of tail left) to drill the bolt, install a tiny coil spring and then reinstall the broken extractor over the coil spring. This was a very reliable fix but is no longer necessary. since two or three good sources for aftermarket extractors have become available. I recommend that you always keep a spare on hand.

 

If you are unfamiliar with dismantling the Win97, here's a tip regarding dismantle to remove the bolt to eyeball the left-side extractor:

When you remove the carrier, be sure, before you drive out that carrier pin, to loosen the carrier pin stop screw (the slot looks straight up), located to the left of the hammer. The carrier pin is grooved and the stop screw seats in that groove. If you drive out the pin without loosening the screw out of the pin's groove, you will damage the retaining screw and that's one tough little screw to replace.

 

Really, it's a simple fix. The Win97 seems like a complicated weapon and it does have over eighty separate parts, which is a lot. But, it's easy to master and the Win97 is really a work of art.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It will probably be more of a project than a regular part of the lineup. Where do you buy those springs and are there any other parts I should stock up on?

Cowboy and Indian or Evil Roy but I thing every body's got them. We also put in the left extractor but they seem to last so the only thing we keep in the bag are the springs. Plus two gun carries my spare and vice versa when I shoot a pump. See ya at GA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cowboy and Indian or Evil Roy but I thing every body's got them. We also put in the left extractor but they seem to last so the only thing we keep in the bag are the springs. Plus two gun carries my spare and vice versa when I shoot a pump. See ya at GA

Looking forward to it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.