Pit Bull Tex Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I have tried google.Yesterday I found a open hammered 12 ga. S X S. It has HENRY ARMS CO on each side.Could not find serial number,the shop did not have good light.The gun is super tight and has laminated barrels.Made in belgium.Going back this saterday to get pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 You have found an old Belgian trade gun that was made in Belgium for relabeling by Crescent Fire Arms Company. Here's a resource that gives some of this info and some more places to look and read. http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=274508 A knowledgeable poster there says: I have both "The Side-By-Side A History & Digest of Double Barrel Breech Loading Shotguns " and "Side-By-Sides of the World" by Charles E. Carder. In the Side-By-Side (dated 1989) on page 84 it says " HENRY GUN CO: made in Belgium c/ 1900, no other history known." There is no mention of a HENRY ARMS CO. In Side-By-Sides of the World (dated 1996) on page 72 it says "HENRY ARMS CO, J.C.: Distributors trade name from St. Paul, MN. for hammer and hammerless doubles made by Crescent Fire Arms Co. (Also known as Henry Gun Co)" Being as it has laminated (or Damascus twist) steel barrels and is a "trade gun" (meaning low cost hardware store type gun), it's not going to have a high value. All hammer-laminated barrels fall into the same pot of "needs close and careful inspection and probably some degree of proof testing" to show that it is still safe to shoot. Determination of this safety by a skilled double-barrel gunsmith usually exceeds the value of the gun. Home testing for safeness can be done, if you are careful. Parts will have to be made rather than bought, if anything breaks. Most CAS shooters would not count on one running very long if used in matches. If you want a wall hanger, it's ready now. If you want a cheap hammered double, the cheapest one that really works is the Colt 1878 clone, Chinese made, sold by TTN and now by Cimarron. (and yes, I found this with Google ) Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Don't know the maker or brand. But do remember that 'Laminated Steel' barrels are a decided step below 'Damascus' in terms of strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Mushman Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Goody, My research (before buying one) revealed that laminated steel is inherently similar in strength to Damascus. Laminated steel was developed as a more efficent, cost effective way to do twist/welded barrels, which both Damascus and Laminated Steel are. There were highrer and lowere quatlity versions of both Damascus and Laminated Steel barrels. Apparently, what mattered the most was the care in either process that provided the endring strength. Some very high end Brit and US manufacturers went to laminated to improve profit margin, although they were not as distinctively beautiful as true Damascus. Just my research from a few months ago..... Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Of course that's probably true. I suppose the knock against the laminated barrels comes from the fact that most of the lower quality guns were made in that manner, giving the method a bad wrap (pun intended). When done correctly and well, it certainly can be just as strong if not stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 If you examine the records of Remington doubles from the 1890s and 1900s, Damascus steel barrels were the HIGH END barrel. They were considered stronger and more desirable than the new "fluid steel" barrels. The steel barreled 1894 Rem hammerless guns listed around $50 (in gold-backed currency). Going up two grades to the nicely engraved grades got one into a Damascus barrel set at more like $150, and prices went up from there, all with Damascus barrels. Many of the laminated barrels were made without full understanding of how to carry out the process, leaving multitudes of seams in the steel that then collected corrosion and weakened at the "hammer weld" junctions. Especially when you examine the cheaper guns of the time. A good grade of gun, like a real Greener, Remington, LeFevre, etc. most likely has a very strong Damascus barrel, if it has been cared for over the years. Something like this trade gun from Belgium, would need to be carefully inspected to see if it could be safe with modern loads, and if it's chambers are cut for modern shell lengths. So, it all depends. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 If you examine the records of Remington doubles from the 1890s and 1900s, Damascus steel barrels were the HIGH END barrel. They were considered stronger and more desirable than the new "fluid steel" barrels. The steel barreled 1894 Rem hammerless guns listed around $50 (in gold-backed currency). Going up two grades to the nicely engraved grades got one into a Damascus barrel set at more like $150, and prices went up from there, all with Damascus barrels. Many of the laminated barrels were made without full understanding of how to carry out the process, leaving multitudes of seams in the steel that then collected corrosion and weakened at the "hammer weld" junctions. Especially when you examine the cheaper guns of the time. A good grade of gun, like a real Greener, Remington, LeFevre, etc. most likely has a very strong Damascus barrel, if it has been cared for over the years. Something like this trade gun from Belgium, would need to be carefully inspected to see if it could be safe with modern loads, and if it's chambers are cut for modern shell lengths. So, it all depends. Good luck, GJ Absolutely, it's more about the quality of the maker. There are still some Damascus cape guns in the nitro cals that have proofed very high even though some are over 100 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Like this one, Nate...? Someday.... if ever I can figger out how to fabricate brass... I believe the rifle side is a 10.5x47R; shotgun is a short-chambered 16 ga. That's simple... the starboard side's a challenge. Someday.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Like this one, Nate...? Someday.... if ever I can figger out how to fabricate brass... I believe the rifle side is a 10.5x47R; shotgun is a short-chambered 16 ga. That's simple... the starboard side's a challenge. Someday.... who is the maker? Looks like an Imman Meffert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 who is the maker? Looks like an Imman Meffert No... inlaid in gold on the rib is "R Stahl in Suhl," as I recall. (I'm at work and can't peek at it at the moment). Reinhart Stahl, perhaps? Believe it dates to the 1880's, per a couple of appraisers who've examined it. Oddly, I'm told that whereas the stock carving is very Germanic, the metal engraving seems to be more British. Neat piece, at any rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Hooker Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Name was probably either a hardware store somewhere, or an effort to falsely trade on the name of either the famous lever action, as some do today, or the British gunmaker Alexander Henry.You'll see lots of this in the hardware store guns- "Sam Holt" intead of "Colt", "Barker" instead of "Parker", "W. Richards" instead of "Westley Richards", et c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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