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Subdeacon Joe

BLM Stands Down in NV

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Folks,

 

I learned something relevant to this discussion at a SASS Convention seminar led by Colonel Dan.

 

Stay focused on one political/legal... issue. In our case, that is our Second Amendment rights, in Bundy's case, it is grazing rights. Branching out to multiple areas (racial views in Bundy's case) may offend potential allies and cause you to loose their support. It was pointed out that this is especially true in contacts with politicians.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

PS Moderation Note: I hope you can see the correlation between the admonishment against political posts and the possibility of chasing off potential new members.

PPS If you have stated your opinion once, there is no need to keep repeating the same thing.

Yes ma'am. Sometimes subjects are passionately driven. Obviously I get caught up in it myself. Apologies all around folks. Gonna take a break for awhile. Shoot straight and keep your powder dry...

 

GG

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I stopped by the bundy Ranch on Thursday morning on my way to St. George, Utah. If you want to see damage being done by a group it is surely this so called "militia" driving all over the local countryside bouncing around in the back of pickup trucks while brandishing all forms of black arsenal guns, and camping on every local hillside with a weapon in their lap. And all of them in all manner of combat camo. It is a field day for anyone who wants to make them look like "nuts". You literally have to drive past this on a public road. Currently there is a NEWS truck stationed in the area to beam out updates whenever it suits their needs.

Then I get home and see that someone has gotten Cliven to wander off topic into the quicksand mire of the peoples of the world.

Mr Bundy makes a living at Cattle ranching, not inspiring people with his opinions on private or Government slavery.

https://www.blm.gov/epl-front-office/eplanning/mapset_view.do?projectId=27002&currentPageId=37157&documentId=32752 is a Land Management map of the area around the Bundy Ranch. Mr Bundy's ranch is about a mile and a half to the left of where the state road crosses the river in T14S - R69E. All the land to the south and east was taken away from Mr Bundy about 25 years ago and assigned as the Gold Butte Conservation area. It is also included as "Desert Tortoise" habitat. (This also includes almost all of Southern Nevada in Clark County) The mountain range to the east of his ranch was put under "wilderness study" by the Federal Government. So the State of Nevada forbids grazing in the marked areas. (Note - Apparently tortoises are restricted to Nevada as the habitat abruptly stops at the Arizona border.)

The government began destroying all water improvements in the area several years ago making it extremely difficult for any wildlife to survive in the area. Not just cattle, but quail, and rabbits and the animals that depend on them for food. These "improvements" primarily consisted of a pipe being driven into the source of the spring and the water piped a short distance to a water trough and the excess allowed to run off into the ground as it did before. There was usually a protective barrier built around the area to keep it from being destroyed.

It was before the government took over this area that I met members of the Bundy family as I hunted these areas when I could walk 20 miles a day. Cliven Bundy and I had similar goals when we tried to keep the government from "managing" this area as I represented a sportsman group at the time. As you can see, we were not successful.

The area to the west was also Mr Bundy's grazing area and as you can see is "Desert Tortoise" habitat also which severely reduces the number of cattle "allowed" in the area.

The Federal and State Governments now "control" every mountain range in Southern Nevada as well as most of the valleys with the designations of Nation Recreation Area, National Conservation area or National Wilderness area and the all the valleys are designated "Tortoise habitat". They control all the ingress and egress to these areas and have no problems closing off your access any time they wish.

If you wish to build on any area for which you have title, you must fence the area off and pay a fee of $550.00/acre to have it inspected for tortoises and have them removed to a government approved area for safe keeping. The tortoises are eventually and quietly euthanized because the government doesn't have enough room or money to keep them.

Three cattle ranches in the Searchlight area of Southern Nevada have gone out of business primarily from the regulations to "preserve" the tortoise and in the southern most region, the Gila Monster.

Mr Bundy is fighting for his way of life. It may be a dying industry in the United States but he has been pushed back to where he can no longer retreat and maintain a family as he perceives it.

Because of this he has gotten into bed with imported volunteers. I can only hope that the Government doesn't push any more as this group is for all practical purposes leaderless and therefore unpredictable when it comes to individual action.

 

View of the problem http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/lvfo/blm_programs/lvfo_recreation/accessing_your_public/maps.html

Open the map that says GOLD BUTTE REGION

Mr Bundy's ranch is approximately where it says "Riverside".

The white is private, everything else is the Government.

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I stopped by the bundy Ranch on Thursday morning on my way to St. George, Utah. If you want to see damage being done by a group it is surely this so called "militia" driving all over the local countryside bouncing around in the back of pickup trucks while brandishing all forms of black arsenal guns, and camping on every local hillside with a weapon in their lap. And all of them in all manner of combat camo. It is a field day for anyone who wants to make them look like "nuts". You literally have to drive past this on a public road. Currently there is a NEWS truck stationed in the area to beam out updates whenever it suits their needs.

Then I get home and see that someone has gotten Cliven to wander off topic into the quicksand mire of the peoples of the world.

Mr Bundy makes a living at Cattle ranching, not inspiring people with his opinions on private or Government slavery.

https://www.blm.gov/epl-front-office/eplanning/mapset_view.do?projectId=27002&currentPageId=37157&documentId=32752 is a Land Management map of the area around the Bundy Ranch. Mr Bundy's ranch is about a mile and a half to the left of where the state road crosses the river in T14S - R69E. All the land to the south and east was taken away from Mr Bundy about 25 years ago and assigned as the Gold Butte Conservation area. It is also included as "Desert Tortoise" habitat. (This also includes almost all of Southern Nevada in Clark County) The mountain range to the east of his ranch was put under "wilderness study" by the Federal Government. So the State of Nevada forbids grazing in the marked areas. (Note - Apparently tortoises are restricted to Nevada as the habitat abruptly stops at the Arizona border.)

The government began destroying all water improvements in the area several years ago making it extremely difficult for any wildlife to survive in the area. Not just cattle, but quail, and rabbits and the animals that depend on them for food. These "improvements" primarily consisted of a pipe being driven into the source of the spring and the water piped a short distance to a water trough and the excess allowed to run off into the ground as it did before. There was usually a protective barrier built around the area to keep it from being destroyed.

It was before the government took over this area that I met members of the Bundy family as I hunted these areas when I could walk 20 miles a day. Cliven Bundy and I had similar goals when we tried to keep the government from "managing" this area as I represented a sportsman group at the time. As you can see, we were not successful.

The area to the west was also Mr Bundy's grazing area and as you can see is "Desert Tortoise" habitat also which severely reduces the number of cattle "allowed" in the area.

The Federal and State Governments now "control" every mountain range in Southern Nevada as well as most of the valleys with the designations of Nation Recreation Area, National Conservation area or National Wilderness area and the all the valleys are designated "Tortoise habitat". They control all the ingress and egress to these areas and have no problems closing off your access any time they wish.

If you wish to build on any area for which you have title, you must fence the area off and pay a fee of $550.00/acre to have it inspected for tortoises and have them removed to a government approved area for safe keeping. The tortoises are eventually and quietly euthanized because the government doesn't have enough room or money to keep them.

Three cattle ranches in the Searchlight area of Southern Nevada have gone out of business primarily from the regulations to "preserve" the tortoise and in the southern most region, the Gila Monster.

Mr Bundy is fighting for his way of life. It may be a dying industry in the United States but he has been pushed back to where he can no longer retreat and maintain a family as he perceives it.

Because of this he has gotten into bed with imported volunteers. I can only hope that the Government doesn't push any more as this group is for all practical purposes leaderless and therefore unpredictable when it comes to individual action.

 

View of the problem http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/lvfo/blm_programs/lvfo_recreation/accessing_your_public/maps.html

Open the map that says GOLD BUTTE REGION

Mr Bundy's ranch is approximately where it says "Riverside".

The white is private, everything else is the Government.

Good luck to all involved. Thanks for your assessment.

 

GG

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I stopped by the bundy Ranch on Thursday morning on my way to St. George, Utah. If you want to see damage being done by a group it is surely this so called "militia" driving all over the local countryside bouncing around in the back of pickup trucks while brandishing all forms of black arsenal guns, and camping on every local hillside with a weapon in their lap. And all of them in all manner of combat camo. It is a field day for anyone who wants to make them look like "nuts". You literally have to drive past this on a public road. Currently there is a NEWS truck stationed in the area to beam out updates whenever it suits their needs.

Then I get home and see that someone has gotten Cliven to wander off topic into the quicksand mire of the peoples of the world.

Mr Bundy makes a living at Cattle ranching, not inspiring people with his opinions on private or Government slavery.

https://www.blm.gov/epl-front-office/eplanning/mapset_view.do?projectId=27002&currentPageId=37157&documentId=32752 is a Land Management map of the area around the Bundy Ranch. Mr Bundy's ranch is about a mile and a half to the left of where the state road crosses the river in T14S - R69E. All the land to the south and east was taken away from Mr Bundy about 25 years ago and assigned as the Gold Butte Conservation area. It is also included as "Desert Tortoise" habitat. (This also includes almost all of Southern Nevada in Clark County) The mountain range to the east of his ranch was put under "wilderness study" by the Federal Government. So the State of Nevada forbids grazing in the marked areas. (Note - Apparently tortoises are restricted to Nevada as the habitat abruptly stops at the Arizona border.)

The government began destroying all water improvements in the area several years ago making it extremely difficult for any wildlife to survive in the area. Not just cattle, but quail, and rabbits and the animals that depend on them for food. These "improvements" primarily consisted of a pipe being driven into the source of the spring and the water piped a short distance to a water trough and the excess allowed to run off into the ground as it did before. There was usually a protective barrier built around the area to keep it from being destroyed.

It was before the government took over this area that I met members of the Bundy family as I hunted these areas when I could walk 20 miles a day. Cliven Bundy and I had similar goals when we tried to keep the government from "managing" this area as I represented a sportsman group at the time. As you can see, we were not successful.

The area to the west was also Mr Bundy's grazing area and as you can see is "Desert Tortoise" habitat also which severely reduces the number of cattle "allowed" in the area.

The Federal and State Governments now "control" every mountain range in Southern Nevada as well as most of the valleys with the designations of Nation Recreation Area, National Conservation area or National Wilderness area and the all the valleys are designated "Tortoise habitat". They control all the ingress and egress to these areas and have no problems closing off your access any time they wish.

If you wish to build on any area for which you have title, you must fence the area off and pay a fee of $550.00/acre to have it inspected for tortoises and have them removed to a government approved area for safe keeping. The tortoises are eventually and quietly euthanized because the government doesn't have enough room or money to keep them.

Three cattle ranches in the Searchlight area of Southern Nevada have gone out of business primarily from the regulations to "preserve" the tortoise and in the southern most region, the Gila Monster.

Mr Bundy is fighting for his way of life. It may be a dying industry in the United States but he has been pushed back to where he can no longer retreat and maintain a family as he perceives it.

Because of this he has gotten into bed with imported volunteers. I can only hope that the Government doesn't push any more as this group is for all practical purposes leaderless and therefore unpredictable when it comes to individual action.

 

View of the problem http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/lvfo/blm_programs/lvfo_recreation/accessing_your_public/maps.html

Open the map that says GOLD BUTTE REGION

Mr Bundy's ranch is approximately where it says "Riverside".

The white is private, everything else is the Government.

 

Regardless of our opinion of Mr. Bundy...

 

You've included two links to BLM's site. Specifically, their maps.

 

I'd expect anyone who's spent time outdoors out west to have learned the same lesson I did years ago. BLM maps represent the area as fits BLM's agenda, and do not match the public county property records.

 

They're about as credible as Mr. Bundy has made himself lately.

 

I'd be a lot more interested in seeing the Clark County tax surveys and deeds in the area.

 

Besides being the only documents that'll hold up in a court dispute, you know the county gov will have the lands they're owed taxes on cataloged to a T.

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Regardless of our opinion of Mr. Bundy...

 

You've included two links to BLM's site. Specifically, their maps.

 

I'd expect anyone who's spent time outdoors out west to have learned the same lesson I did years ago. BLM maps represent the area as fits BLM's agenda, and do not match the public county property records.

 

They're about as credible as Mr. Bundy has made himself lately.

 

I'd be a lot more interested in seeing the Clark County tax surveys and deeds in the area.

 

Besides being the only documents that'll hold up in a court dispute, you know the county gov will have the lands they're owed taxes on cataloged to a T.

That may or may not be true. Let me explain.

 

I built and operated a mountaintop communications site in eastern San Diego county for 24 years and never paid any county property tax. When we originally got the site we went to the county and got the approval to convert the old ATT building into a antenna farm and were told that since it was on a military reservation ( long since abandoned by the military) that the property was not on the county tax roles. Over the years when our accountant would press us we would make a visit to the treasurers office and appraiser and were told each time that the property was on a military reservation. When we sold the site the new owners went to the county with us and were told the same thing. When you look at the map of the area where the site is it is all whited out and says military reservation. My guess is that that's probably similar to what you would see when you look at the maps of Nevada, big areas of government controlled land. That is just a guess on my part.

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That may or may not be true. Let me explain.

 

I built and operated a mountaintop communications site in eastern San Diego county for 24 years and never paid any county property tax. When we originally got the site we went to the county and got the approval to convert the old ATT building into a antenna farm and were told that since it was on a military reservation ( long since abandoned by the military) that the property was not on the county tax roles. Over the years when our accountant would press us we would make a visit to the treasurers office and appraiser and were told each time that the property was on a military reservation. When we sold the site the new owners went to the county with us and were told the same thing. When you look at the map of the area where the site is it is all whited out and says military reservation. My guess is that that's probably similar to what you would see when you look at the maps of Nevada, big areas of government controlled land. That is just a guess on my part.

 

And that's what I'd expect to see, a whited out area where the federal entities legitimately own the land.

 

I'd bet a bottle of something expensive that the white areas on the county maps won't match the BLM maps, is all I'm gettin at.

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I swear..... You people would argue about the size of the hose while your house burns down.

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I swear..... You people would argue about the size of the hose while your house burns down.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Sorry...

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I swear..... You people would argue about the size of the hose while your house burns down.

Where did you get arguing out of what FT and I were discussing?

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This is just my opinion, but you fellas are completely missing some things. He got it exactly wrong, nobody is better off living comfortably as a slave than they would be struggling to survive as a free man. That should be something Americans never lose sight of, so it's a little disconcerting to see some of the staunchest Americans fool themselves into thinking it. When you make this argument, you're also weakening the argument that liberals are hurting the country by trying to make people dependent on the gov't in order to keep their votes. Besides, it's a false analogy - - anybody who sat on the sidewalk instead of working back in the slavery days wouldn't have got a handout, they would have got a beating. Finally, you have allowed the argument to become completely about him which means nobody is talking about whether what the gov't did is right or wrong.

As I say, this is just my opinion. You might not agree with any of it, but I think it's at least worth giving it some more thought.

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Finally, you have allowed the argument to become completely about him which means nobody is talking about whether what the gov't did is right or wrong.

 

Yup

 

GG

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As CR says, we should focus on the problems of government abuse of power rather than Bundy's personal views for now.

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......we should focus on the problems of government abuse of power rather than Bundy's personal views for now.

Yup - as AM and CD says too....

 

GG

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This is the longest I have ever seen a thread like this go for as long as it has with out the treat of getting shut down. I am Impressed

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This is the longest I have ever seen a thread like this go for as long as it has with out the treat of getting shut down. I am Impressed

Proves that though we may disagree on a subject us 'cowpokes' can be civil. :) that's the essence of SASS I think....

 

GG

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The agenda for the left in the november elections is racism because they don't have anything postive to tell the voters. For example

 

how can two guys who make it to the top of their fields cry foul (racism) , this happened about two weeks ago in n.y.c. ,give me a

 

break.

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As CR says, we should focus on the problems of government abuse of power rather than Bundy's personal views for now.

 

 

The agenda for the left in the november elections is racism because they don't have anything postive to tell the voters. For example

 

how can two guys who make it to the top of their fields cry foul (racism) , this happened about two weeks ago in n.y.c. ,give me a

 

break.

 

Yep. On both counts.

Hey, Bundy said some stupid stuff. If he had left the slavery part out we probably wouldn't be piling on him, as he so deserves. But quite honestly, if anyone denies any truth in what he said they must be living in a cave. Go through a major US ghetto or even small rural town public housing and tell me what ya see? One conundrum after another. Porches full of folks with apparently nothing to do or nowhere to go. Except maybe the corner store where they sit all around and loaf all day (go to Woodbury, Ga). There's more.....Poor people that supposedly can't feed themselves yet they are overweight. People targeted and given favor for employment yet they are still unemployed despite all of governments efforts. Kids reached out to to be educated to "rise above" their situation yet they still are dropping out, doing drugs getting pregnant, going to jail or dying young. Folks idly sitting by watching the world go by.

And nothing ever gets better cause we're all racist........

 

Yeah right. The fact that these issues simply are not so-called black problems dispels that notion. The white folks just stay geeked up on meth, stay out all night and hole up all day or down in their parents basement on the Xbox orchestrating their next home invasion.

 

There's only a few recurring truths in America anymore:

- The middle class wild continue to get screwed while Left vs Right fights over who gets to screw them. I'm voting (E) None of the above.

- Big business will manipulate politics and put small business at a disadvantage or curry favors common people could never afford.

- The poor will remain poor and angry and get even more poor and angry.

- Politicians leave Washington with a higher net worth even though they went there taking a "paycut."

- The rich can always leave and set up shop in Singapore. The rest of us are stuck.

- Only God can save us now.

 

 

 

 

And one last thing....what Allie Mo says, goes!

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Hmmm...just one more thought.

 

Cliven Bundy's mishandled expression definately takes back stage to the LA Clippers owner remarks of recent.

 

All I can say is one is obviously more in line with the subject of racism than the other....

 

However.... Maybe we have lost the freedom of speech. However idiotic the statements were made by the owner or anybody else on this issue it's amazing that the speech now supersedes even the deed .. The ACT....in confirmation and punishment. Seems like all this has now become on the level of premeditated murder.

 

Just a thought.... And in no way do I candone the words spoken by the owner guy.

 

 

 

GG

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:D:wub:

I got dumped for a younger, handsomer, rich cowpoke.... :(. Bet he wears his pants tucked into his boots! :)

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I got dumped for a younger, handsomer, rich cowpoke.... :(. Bet he wears his pants tucked into his boots! :)

No way! ;)

 

BTW, this thread is getting into forbidden territory - race and politics. The thread was initiated to talk about the BLM/Bundy thing. As you cannot stop there it's time for bye bye.

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