PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Don't get testy with me or I'll get the Red Book out.... We're not talking about the OP here. Yes, 4 is already down HOWSOMEVER.... if the stage instructions are 1,2,3,4 in order and the shooter misses 3 )(it remains standing after the shot) then 4 is down... you can't argue against that..."4 is already down", PWB ... therefore, in an attempt to apply LOGIC (yes, I'm being the devil's advocate here) then 4 is down before 3. And in an "IN ORDER" stage instruction that is (logically) a "P". Using that "logic", the shooter gets a "P" before even firing a shot, since the targets CANNOT go down "in order" if #4 is already down. I can and WILL argue against that most convoluted method of assigning an undeserved penalty to the shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 maybe the shooter WAS engaging #4 with that so called missed shot. If we don't judge intent, who's to say. It could be said that that shot was his engagement of #4 And it is down. SO. 4 shots fired. 4 targets down. P.S. I like that the SHOOTER KNEW what he did. And knew he did not engage #4 and did what he thought was the right thing. Now if he beats anyone. He knows he did it straight up and not on a technicality of getting away with one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 maybe the shooter WAS engaging #4 with that so called missed shot. If we don't judge intent, who's to say. It could be said that that shot was his engagement of #4 And it is down. SO. 4 shots fired. 4 targets down. Like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Don't get testy with me or I'll get the Red Book out....(wait! wait! wait!...forgot the ) ... Don't make me "fencepost" you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Using that "logic", the shooter gets a "P" before even firing a shot, since the targets CANNOT go down "in order" if #4 is already down. I can and WILL argue against that most convoluted method of assigning an undeserved penalty to the shooter. Hey, obviously I'm applying "Hard Ass" here, BUTT.... When the shooter begins--- nothing has been missed. He shoots 1..it falls. He shoots 2 ...it falls. He shoots 3...it remains standing. Had #4 been UP and went DOWN then it would be a 'P'..... no argument. You could even envision a scenario where the shooter missed but the WIND blew #4 down. SUCKS TO BE YOU..... You can NOT argue that after the shooter engaged (or should have) #3 it remained standing but #1, #2 and #4 were all down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 SG4 is down before SG1 is even engaged........so if the shooter at any time misses SG targets 1 or 2 or 3 before SG4 is engaged.........you apply a "P" A miss causing a "P" That makes no since Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 maybe the shooter WAS engaging #4 with that so called missed shot. If we don't judge intent, who's to say. It could be said that that shot was his engagement of #4 And it is down. SO. 4 shots fired. 4 targets down. P.S. I like that the SHOOTER KNEW what he did. And knew he did not engage #4 and did what he thought was the right thing. So what's the question again?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Hey, obviously I'm applying "Hard Ass" here, BUTT.... When the shooter begins--- nothing has been missed. He shoots 1..it falls. He shoots 2 ...it falls. He shoots 3...it remains standing. Had #4 been UP and went DOWN then it would be a 'P'..... no argument. You could even envision a scenario where the shooter missed but the WIND blew #4 down. SUCKS TO BE YOU..... You can NOT argue that after the shooter engaged (or should have) #3 it remained standing but #1, #2 and #4 were all down. One more time: A MISS CANNOT CAUSE A PROCEDURAL. IF the wind blows KD's down across the bay from the targets a shooter is actively engaging, he doesn't get penalized for the ones that went down "out of order" or "with the wrong firearm"...stop & think before you post again... PLEASE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 SG4 is down before SG1 is even engaged........so if the shooter at any time misses SG targets 1 or 2 or 3 before SG4 is engaged.........you apply a "P" A miss causing a "P" That makes no since Sense.... actually it makes perfect 'sense'.... It is not a 'miss'. We don't score intent. We score what happened. IF the shooter had an AD that went over the targets but #4 fell in a 'specified order' scenario 1,2,3,4 then it would not be a 'miss' causing a 'P'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Sense.... actually it makes perfect 'sense'.... It is not a 'miss'. We don't score intent. We score what happened. IF the shooter had an AD that went over the targets but #4 fell in a 'specified order' scenario 1,2,3,4 then it would not be a 'miss' causing a 'P'. Correct...it would only be a MISS...NO "P". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 The wind did it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 BK You win.........sucks to be you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 BK You win.........sucks to be you INDEED! Misses only cause "P"'s if the miss hits another "CORRECT TYPE" target. Except in the case of S/G targets or knockdowns ...in which case the wind, the ground shaking, the rack shaking, inadvertent falls, or targets falling at the wrong time that might hurt someone's feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Hi Folk, This could get me in trouble... (Winking at PWB here in the hope of not getting a black star.) How do you know he wasn't engaging target 4 with that miss? If no order was specified, no target was hit, 4 rounds were fired, and target 4 is down; I can't see a miss here and don't understand the need for the fifth shot. We always give credit for a broken bird when the specified round count is fired. IIRC, we've always given credit for firing over a downed target. Am I missing something? Help! Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 INDEED! Misses only cause "P"'s if the miss hits another "CORRECT TYPE" target. Then it's not scored as a MISS...it's only a "P" Except in the case of S/G targets or knockdowns ...in which case the wind, the ground shaking, the rack shaking, inadvertent falls, or targets falling at the wrong time that might hurt someone's feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Sense.... actually it makes perfect 'sense'.... It is not a 'miss'. We don't score intent. We score what happened. IF the shooter had an AD that went over the targets but #4 fell in a 'specified order' scenario 1,2,3,4 then it would not be a 'miss' causing a 'P'. Correct...it would only be a MISS...NO "P". I'm really having trouble this morning... I thought only KDs left standing were misses. They can be reengaged until down. If all fell in the specified order, where I the miss? Help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I got yer fence post.... hangin' Shooter didn't miss.... correct type target is down. This is a new application of the GOLDEN BB...it's the Black Turd....close cousin to the infamous "trifecta". A-mo! This is no longer about the OP.... the issue was brought up that if the OP is not a specified order then the shooter satisfied the stage instructions with 4 shots....OK. NOW we're tawkin' 'bout 'specific order' in which #3 was left standing but #4 is down after the third shot in the string. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Hi Folk, This could get me in trouble... (Winking at PWB here in the hope of not getting a black star.) How do you know he wasn't engaging target 4 with that miss? If no order was specified, no target was hit, 4 rounds were fired, and target 4 is down; I can't see a miss here and don't understand the need for the fifth shot. We always give credit for a broken bird when the specified round count is fired. IIRC, we've always given credit for firing over a downed target. Am I missing something? Help! Regards, Allie Mo That's been addressed as giving the shooter the BOD IF NO ORDER WAS SPECIFIED. According to the OP shooter's actions, he APPARENTLY missed #3 & re-engaged it for the HIT...then chose to "shoot where it was" for the downed #4. Without additional info from the OP and/or shooter himself, we don't know for sure. All is speculation at this point... except for BK being WRONG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I'm really having trouble this morning... I thought only KDs left standing were misses. They can be reengaged until down. If all fell in the specified order, where I the miss? Help! Assigning a MISS + P to an AD shot on a DOWN KD target for "out of order" is BS...IMO. I'm not going to try to explain BK's "logic" as it is in error. ~fini~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe LaFives #5481 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 ....except for BK being WRONG. Comes as no surprise. A miss can never cause a P. OTOH a hit AFTER a miss can if there is a specified order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Comes as no surprise. A miss can never cause a P. OTOH a hit AFTER a miss can if there is a specified order. Least of all me.... especially when logic dictates an even handed application of the rules for both benefit and penalty. And, your observation is spot on. Had the targets all been standing, the shot after #4 fell, which then caused #3 to fall would have been a "P"....no miss. In like manner.... the shooter faced with a knock down inadvertently having fallen COULD have a double jeopardy since an errant shot COULD be construed having missed the correct order target as having actually hit the correct type target then the subsequent hit on the correct type target would have been out of order. TO WIT: 1,2,4, 3. Now I get it that that is SASS WRONG... but that doesn't make the logic wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 if a bird drops a load in the elephant pen, is it then elephant dung? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 That's enough!!!!!!!!! Everybody Go to your rooms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 That's enough!!!!!!!!! Everybody Go to your rooms! Hey that's my line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 You've been a bad boy now GO TO MY ROOM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Which is why when I see a shotgun target already down, I shoot at the "down" target last, if there is no order. That way you got four to knock down three. At the end of the stage: How many rounds were fired, 4 minimum? Answer 4 How many targets still standing? Answer None Call? Clean Next shooter please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Which is why when I see a shotgun target already down, I shoot at the "down" target last, if there is no order. That way you got four to knock down three. At the end of the stage: How many rounds were fired, 4 minimum? Answer 4 How many targets still standing? Answer None Call? Clean Next shooter please +1....ALWAYS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Which is why when I see a shotgun target already down, I shoot at the "down" target last, if there is no order. That way you got four to knock down three. At the end of the stage: How many rounds were fired, 4 minimum? Answer 4 How many targets still standing? Answer None Call? Clean Next shooter please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I have been out of town taking care of a car wreck victom for the last week, so I have NOT read all 2 pages on this whats the call but for crying out loud what ever happen to aim "shoot where the target was" now it seems to be, you owe me a round down range for the 4 part there could be an very slight advantage to just firing a round down range over actually aiming where the "broken / already fallen target was" just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 MM, yur late , go to your room with no dinner!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Doggle Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 My God, and here I thought winter was over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Winter is over in TX....but in Sout'dakoootah I rode 100 mi yesterday on my scooter in occasional snow flurries. Do I seem grouchy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Ever play that game...well I don't know if it's a game...but for sake of argument, let's call it a game, where you spin yourself around a baseball bat and then try and run down a football field. Try it. Then you'll know how I'm feeling right now. Cheers! Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bodie Tom Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I have seen you that way......LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.