32-20 Reloading

[Ace Hanlon]

I'm having some difficulty reloading brass for my 32-20 Vaqueros. I use Starline Brass and a 100 grain lead bullet. The new brass will fit fine in both cylinders of each vaquero. However after shooting and resizing the brass some will not seat all the way in one of the cylinders and drag on the recoil shields. I have been using Lee dies for the reloading. I was wondering if you all had any suggestions for my problem and/or recommend a different die set. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Ace

[Bull Skinner]

I suspect your dies are not adjusted properly and the shoulders are not getting set back enough. Try adjusting your die to set the shoulders back a little.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Virtually every sizing die I have ever used with the .32-20 did not set the shoulder back far enough. I have three or four sets of .32-20 dies. The sizers on all of them have been shortened.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Does your size die contact the shell holder, when there is a case in it?

If if doesn't-It should.

LG

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

32-20 Lee sizing die. (RCBS for that matter)

--------

I grind 1/32" to 3/64" off the bottom of the die where it meets the shell plate.

I round off the sharp edge and polish with 400 wet and dry sand paper.

I then take a round ball grinding bit and put a little taper to the inside of the die.

----------

I take a bolt that threads in to the top of the die.

I use a nut to tighten down on the die.

I cut the bolt head off and then chuck it up in the drill press.

This is to remove the 1/32" to 3/64" from the bottom.

If you need more removed to get the shoulder down to spec then do it again.

[diablo slim]

Hey Cliff Hanger...After you chuck it in the drill press do you spin it on some sand paper or what...

[jrswanson1]

I have a set of RCBS dies I picked up 25 years ago, they worked fine in my Blackhawk then and my EMF Hartfords now. When was the last time you cleaned the cylinders on your revolver? I'm noticing now (after a couple hundred rounds) this same issue which wasn't a problem when I first shot the two revolvers I have.

[Tanga Loca]

We have found too, that it is critical to lube the cases for 32-20.

[Lead Ringer]

Oh and don't forget to jiggle the handle!

Ringer

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

32-20 Lee sizing die. (RCBS for that matter)

--------

I grind 1/32" to 3/64" off the bottom of the die where it meets the shell plate.

I round off the sharp edge and polish with 400 wet and dry sand paper.

I then take a round ball grinding bit and put a little taper to the inside of the die.

----------

I take a bolt that threads in to the top of the die.

I use a nut to tighten down on the die.

I cut the bolt head off and then chuck it up in the drill press.

This is to remove the 1/32" to 3/64" from the bottom.

If you need more removed to get the shoulder down to spec then do it again.

+1 take them to a machinist or shop and have them take it off the bottom then they will set the shoulders back enough for you,

 

KK

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

I use Lee dies for this caliber.

 

I also had some trouble like you described with both .32-20 and .44-40.

 

In both calibers, I readjusted the 3rd die to only seat the bullet and not crimp it. Then I got a Lee Factory Crip Die for crimping and I've never had a problem since.

 

I now get the FCD for all bottle necked cartridges.

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

I use a grinder and sand paper while the die is in the drill press.

Poor man's lathe.

-----

Just had a thought.

I find that most bottle neck and long rifle cases tend to have a slight bulge when crimped.

 

Suggestion. Try resizing an empty case. Then see if that case fits the chambers you use it in. If it does then it may be in the crimping stage that is causing the rounds to not fully chamber. If it doesn't then it is the shoulder set back.

 

Here's an article on what I mean. Reloading bottle neck cases Last article.

[Noz]

Driftwood. Just curious, do you ever have trouble with the shoulder in a rifle?

[stepnmud#33546]

I'm using 32 20 Lee dies for a Marlin rifle and a Uberti revolver with on problems, but would do like Cliff says and check the brass for chamber fit after sizing to verify full lenght sizing. Also using the Hornady One shot lube on the brass.

 

By the way, I was unaware that Ruger made Vaqueros in 32 20 caliber.

[Monco]

 

By the way, I was unaware that Ruger made Vaqueros in 32 20 caliber.

 

There were very few made special for Davidsons....32-20 & 32 H&R convertibles.

[Chance Derringer, SASS #19985]

+ 1 for the factory crimp die & shortening sizing die.

[Tom Bullweed]

+1 on grinding the dies. I use Lee dies for the .32-20. My rounds worked fine in original Win 92 (1908) and Win 73 (1891) but would not fully seat in the chambers of a Colt Bisley made in 1902. I filed about 1/16" from the mouth of the three dies and had no further problems. I suspect that the rifles were 'moving' the shoulder when I closed the levers. This thin brass is very easy to reform.

FWIW Brian Pierce of Handloader magazine said that this is common with the .32-20.

[Ace Hanlon]

Just wanted to thank you all for the great replies. I'm going to shorten my resizing dies by .030 as soon as I can get on a lathe. I am also going to try Cliff Hanger's idea about resizing after crimping the reload to remove any case bulge. Great article Cliff Hanger! I have only been reloading for about a year now and only straight wall cartridges. This is my first time with bottle neck cartridges. Thanks again to everyone for your help and suggestions. Ace

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

 

 

I find that most bottle neck and long rifle cases tend to have a slight bulge when crimped.

 

Usually this can be fixed by making sure you crimp so that the mouth of the case just stays short of the front driving band that is forward of the crimp groove. When the case mouth gets shoved into the band during crimping, that is usually when you bulge the case neck.

 

So, on finished rounds, there should be a perceptible gap between mouth of case, as crimped, and the driving band ahead of the crimp groove.

 

CH's article shows that cramming the bullet's drive band into the case mouth during crimping is the cause. His solution with an extra sizing die works, but at the cost of an extra die and extra step on the press that has to be kept adjusted and running right. Easier just to back off the seater die a smidge and not create the bulge in the first place.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Noz]

You can also create this bulge by loading just a little too much powder.

Lighten up on the powder, let the crimp go a little long and you are good to go.

I'm not convinced I really need it but I have a FCD for each caliber I load.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Just wanted to thank you all for the great replies. I'm going to shorten my resizing dies by .030 as soon as I can get on a lathe. I am also going to try Cliff Hanger's idea about resizing after crimping the reload to remove any case bulge. Great article Cliff Hanger! I have only been reloading for about a year now and only straight wall cartridges. This is my first time with bottle neck cartridges. Thanks again to everyone for your help and suggestions. Ace

 

Just be sure that shortening the die is necessary before you do it. Have you already tried adjusting the die lower so it lowers the shoulder? My Lee dies with FCD did fine on 32-20's loaded for a 1st Gen Colt, but when I bought an Uberti rifle I just needed to screw the sizing die a little lower to move the shoulder down, works fine (using a Lee Turret press).

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Just wanted to thank you all for the great replies. I'm going to shorten my resizing dies by .030 as soon as I can get on a lathe. I am also going to try Cliff Hanger's idea about resizing after crimping the reload to remove any case bulge. Great article Cliff Hanger! I have only been reloading for about a year now and only straight wall cartridges. This is my first time with bottle neck cartridges. Thanks again to everyone for your help and suggestions. Ace

If you are loading on a single stage press. I would take the .030" off the top of the shell holder instead. Cheaper to replace, if you muck it up.

LG

[Roger Rapid]

I'm shooting 32-20 as well and suspect that the problem is not with your shell re-sizing die. I suggest you get a .311 bullet re-sizing die and get the lead to the right size so it doesn't over expand the case when seated. Worked for me. RR

[Outrider, SASS #72622]

Does your size die contact the shell holder, when there is a case in it?

If if doesn't-It should.

LG

That was the way I corrected my issues years ago with 44-40!

[Bull Skinner]

"Easier just to back off the seater die a smidge and not create the bulge in the first place."

 

+1

[Roger Rapid]

I don't see it as a seating die problem. As mentioned earlier, case expansion with over-sized bullets seems to cause the hangup. And it's interesting to read the chatter on the web re: problems with finding the right bullet size for 32-20. I still have some bullets from Green Bay Bullet (which I think is long out of business) that are .311" and they seat well in the brass, and the loaded round chambers fine. By contrast, I have some Missouri Bullets that are .313" and they expand the case just enough to make the round tight to impossible to chamber. Re-szing the lead to .311" seems to do the trick. ..>R

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Just because there are two different causes of problems does not make one problem unimportant. Both crimp-induced bulges and oversize bullet causing a "fat neck" can be problems.

 

One would hope that a reloader would know not to use oversized slugs which will never really work in his gun(s).

 

But, then again, look at how Ruger has made so many 44-40 revolvers with much tighter necks in the chambers than the barrel groove diameter requires. Or Winchester with their silly 38-55 chamber and barrel combinations. Dumb moves are common.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Ace Hanlon]

Okay guys I have made some progress with my problem. I have set up an extra sizing die without the prime pin installed in a single stage press in order to lower the shoulder in fired cases until I can get to a lathe to remove material from the sizing die so it will work on my Dillon 550. With the bullets I'm using as long as I don't go past the crimp groove in bullet seating I do not have a problem with the rounds seating in the pistol cylinder. This will put the OAL at 1.591. I guess the stupid mistake I have been making is going past the crimp groove in order to make a shorter OAL for my rifles which like 1.57. Even going past the crimp groove, my rifles do not seem to have a chambering problem like the pistols. If I want all rounds to be the same OAL, I need to find different bullets where the top of the bullet to crimp groove is less than my current bullets. I guess my assumption that if the rounds worked ok in the rifle they should be okay in the pistols as well was my downfall. Ace

[Ace Hanlon]

Since all my reloads seem to chamber and cycle ok in my rifles, I'm thinking the chambers are different and there might be a possibility that the expended brass casings might conform to the rifle chamber which would be a possible reason for a problem in the pistol chambers without lowering the shoulder.

[Jess Ducky]

I know that many of you will find this advise far too dedious to heed, but I have found through forty years of reloaded the WCF's that trimming the case to a common length eliminates 90% of the loading/champering issues with these cartridges. If you use mixed lots of Winchester, Remington, and Starline brass, you will find each brand comes from the factory with different case lengths. When you go to set up your crimping die, sometimes one of them will sneak through with a few thousanths extra length, and the crimp die will buckle it slightly, giving you that one cartridge which won't fit the chamber. On all my bottle-necked cases, I size and then trim them all to a common length, so that when the seating die is adjusted properly, the cases all come out exactly alike.

But there is a caviat to that as well, as the thickness of the case wall is different between the brands. I have found that Remington is thickest, then Winchester and Starline about equal. This means that bullets of .313/.314 will cause some Remington cartridges to not chamber in my Ruger OMV's, but they will chamber in my Uberti '73. Bullets of .312 will generally chamber in everything.

You might also find that the .32-20 brass does stretch a bit with use. After about half a dozen firings, I have found that the brass will stretch about .002/3 in., but again, it depends on which brand of case you are using, and whether your loads are hot or mild. When the brass stretches, you will find that the crimp die will start to bulge the necks to some degree.

The Lee Factory Crimp die, with it's collet style crimper, is the best way to get a good, solid crimp while not bulging the case. My Lee crimper will not work with the Dillon 550B I use for this caliber, but I use it in a single stage press as the final step. For match shooting, this extra step is not an issue, as I, like most of you, would rather have something work every time, even if it takes a little more effort to make that happen.

Just a thought...things to do when you are retired and have all the time in the world to load. Ducky

[Richard Wagner]

I suspect your dies are not adjusted properly and the shoulders are not getting set back enough. Try adjusting your die to set the shoulders back a little.

This is how we solved the problem with Rhinestone Rachel's Vaqueros. I also make her make sure every round will easily drop into the cylinder before she can box up her day's work. Just so she doesn't get to the loading table with rounds that don't fit. Again.

Cherokee Slim

[Roger Rapid]

Ducky… Not too tedious at all. Good info and ditto on all… RR

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

I know that many of you will find this advise far too dedious to heed, but I have found through forty years of reloaded the WCF's that trimming the case to a common length eliminates 90% of the loading/champering issues with these cartridges. If you use mixed lots of Winchester, Remington, and Starline brass, you will find each brand comes from the factory with different case lengths. When you go to set up your crimping die, sometimes one of them will sneak through with a few thousanths extra length, and the crimp die will buckle it slightly, giving you that one cartridge which won't fit the chamber. On all my bottle-necked cases, I size and then trim them all to a common length, so that when the seating die is adjusted properly, the cases all come out exactly alike.

But there is a caviat to that as well, as the thickness of the case wall is different between the brands. I have found that Remington is thickest, then Winchester and Starline about equal. This means that bullets of .313/.314 will cause some Remington cartridges to not chamber in my Ruger OMV's, but they will chamber in my Uberti '73. Bullets of .312 will generally chamber in everything.

You might also find that the .32-20 brass does stretch a bit with use. After about half a dozen firings, I have found that the brass will stretch about .002/3 in., but again, it depends on which brand of case you are using, and whether your loads are hot or mild. When the brass stretches, you will find that the crimp die will start to bulge the necks to some degree.

The Lee Factory Crimp die, with it's collet style crimper, is the best way to get a good, solid crimp while not bulging the case. My Lee crimper will not work with the Dillon 550B I use for this caliber, but I use it in a single stage press as the final step. For match shooting, this extra step is not an issue, as I, like most of you, would rather have something work every time, even if it takes a little more effort to make that happen.

Just a thought...things to do when you are retired and have all the time in the world to load. Ducky

I've loaded thousands of .32-20, .38-40 and .44-40 on Dillon 550s and 650s and use the Lee collet crimper for these calibers. What problem are you having?

[Ace Hanlon]

Larsen the problem I have with the Lee Collet crimp die is the threads on the side of the die hit my shell plate on a Dillon 550

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

I don't know what's wrong with Photobucket as I am having a hard time downloading and retrieving photos. Hopefully, these are in the right order. One photo is missing, I'll try to attach it to another post.

 

For your first problem when you take your sizer to a machine shop to have them shorten it (I always shorten mine .060") take the die body for your crimper and have them turn the end threads down a bit.

 

 

 

 

I have ten or eleven .32-20s and if I want to use the same ammo in all of them I have to load for the shortest chamber. One thing you will notice in the .32-20 case gauge is that the shoulder inside the gauge is well down in the gauge.

 

Normally, you would try to have your ammo so that the rim is between the top of the die and the bottom of the shallow trough. That is "normal" head space.

 

 

 

(As noted, I'll have to try to retrieve the final photo and edit this post, or make a new post.

 

AAAHHHHH! It looks like the new SASS photo software let me edit the post. I always size the ammo so it sits on the shoulder down in the die. That way it fits pretty much everything.