Old School Matches

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Sounds like a warning, or a threat to me..........

LG

[Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884]

Ditto, except I've always seen the diamonds as the smallest target.

 

That said...see you at the Regional Bro Filmore!

........and at Fort Miller.

[Madd Mike #8595]

Cowboy Junky wrote:

"IMHO it the silliness that makes so many people not take us as serious shooters."

 

 

Maybe, but I think pistol targets at 6 feet might have something to do with it, too.

and a great big huge 10-4 to that one

and start holding yer gun already pointed at the first target on 40% of the stage starts...... etc....

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Gotta catch me -first.......

LG

[Krazy Kajun]

Quick art work....thought it has a strange resemblence to AM

 

[Dang It Dan 13202]

I've been watching this thread since yesterday trying to formulate a well thought out post. Here goes.

 

I have been playing this game for almost 15 years, and seen many changes as discussed on other threads. Some good & some not so good. The stages today are different with regards to sequences, size , and distances the targets are from the shooter. They have changed how we engage targets like have been previously mentioned. Start by laying down on a blanket under a horse shooting rifle targets at 40 yards (Northwest Regional in Coeur d'Alene, ID in 2000), or throwing a golf ball into a bucket, or throwing a hat onto a hat rack for bonuses (Mule Camp approx 2004). I've seen the pistols, rifles, and shotguns evolve into better functioning, smoother quicker actions. I have seen lots of very inventive props that bring what I believe the Wild Bunch's initial vision of this game we play into the picture. I've seen clubs come & go for many different reasons. With time nothing remains the same.

 

Now to my perspectives. I think this sport we play has room for everyone to enjoy, and play how they want. There is not one reason a match director can't atleast try to make all of his/her CLIENTS happy (probably never gonna happen). How many winners can there be in a match? Only one overall, and only one in each category. Yet how many come to play with you at your match, and why? That answer is wide, and varried from.... I want to just compete against myself to better my own skills... I want to dress up like they did in the 1800's... I want to win, and I don't care how much money I spend on guns... I want to beat my buddy just once, or I want to see friends I've made over the years. What makes a great match, or match director stand out from the good one is his/her ability to listen to ALL their own club members, and frequent visitors. Hear and apply what is being said to help make as many folks feel welcome to their match. Read & hear your clients.

 

Personally... I like "OLD SCHOOL".... I like to win Overall, or just category... I like beating a buddy... I like to do silly stuff on, or off the clock... I like shooting fast... Most of all I LOVE my friends in SASS weather they're EVIL or not. Now mind you I'm not able to do some of the above "I likes" anymore, but I do try.

 

Pitbull I'm comin ta GA state & I'll bring them dollar's... You too Talon.

 

 

Best to all

Hammer

 

Speaking of "OLD SKOOL" and up pops Harman Hammer....both of us at the 17 year mark I believe. Hell, I knew him when he was skinny!

 

Yes, shot Trailhead one year when you started laying down under the wagon shooting at 50 yard targets. Yes, throw the tomahawk, stick the knife, throw the golf ball and the hat (I won that year because of that), keep the shawl on while you shoot and the barber's cape while in the barber's chair BTW. At EOT on the 13th stage when you had to shoot Five or Six staged guns to determine the overall winner of the damn match (frankly, it was a blur...I remember a double barrel, a .22 gallery gun, a stock colt revolver, a 45-70 rolling block and all of your normal guns). Bow and arrow, stick the balloons with the knife and whip the dynamite - ALL ON THE CLOCK.

 

Every gun had a different sequence. One year we had Yatzee dice in a mason jar...whatever came out of the jar was the sequence you had to shoot (i.e. two 3's, one 4, one 5 and one 6 had to be shot in that order with the pistols, then put the dice back in the jar and roll again THEN REVERSE THE NEW DICE ORDER WITH THE RIFLE - all on the clock). My buddies had to restrain me from killing the MD - OK, so I wasn't the most congenial person at the time.

 

You keep the "old school" ways if you like. I am glad things have evolved.

[Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life]

Oh, remember the Craps table where you had to shoot the target sequece from the dice you rolled?

 

There are going to be plenty of props, silly lines, and maybe even some DANCING in the Piedmont Regulator's...

 

[DanceswithPitBulls]

Hammer, once again we are of liked minds. As for the dollar bills ... save them for your trip to the Cheetah. I think I can speak for Talon here, we would never try to mess with you during a "major" match. You are far too talented, and deserving of a win.

 

Of course that's not to say the time will come daring you to fire all four weapons hopping on one leg while singing the Georgia Tech fight song (Hammer is a huge Alburn Fan).

 

 

[Talon Macleod #29883]

I will see Harman next Sat. And in Gainesville in April. Iintend to bring Pesos and do all the damage I can. Tal

Oh! Mike its not Auburn its Clemson and I am a ramblin Wreck from Ga. Tech and a Hell of a mediocre engineer.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

We always have ever good and different stages.One stage was started setting at a table across from a dummy with a balloon for a head with a derringer staged on table and your shotgun staged on the table.The line I think was you calling me a cheat.At the beep you shoot the balloon with a blank and stood up with shotgun you had to shoot a hole in butcher paper as big as you thought you could shoot the pistol targets through with out putting your pistol though the hole.Some shoot 2 shot shells and some shot 4.That was a bi monthly.Possum and Gator always write something that is fun and different.

That was fun wasn't it!

[Harman Hammer, SASS #20214]

DID...

 

Yup, not a light weight anymore, but Dr. & tailor says I need to fix that, or I'll be gittin fitted fer sometin other than new duds.

 

 

Talon...

 

Bring a "Fist full a Dollars" to Cherokee in April for the Evil Bob match. How about we do a modified AAC match? You bring the soot & guns I'll bring the new fangled powder rounds & guns. Half the stages with each others guns & ammo. Maybe Evil Bob will loan us his 10 guage for two stages, your SxS on two, and my 97 on two. I'll even shoot your pistols duelist, and maybe in honor of DID we'll shoot a stage GF.

 

Any body else want in?

 

With the caveate Bob is okay's with this.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

Heck, I'm up for anything. I'll even loan ya the 10 gauge beast and BP shells capable of knocking over a small truck.

[Harman Hammer, SASS #20214]

Heck, I'm up for anything. I'll even loan ya the 10 gauge beast and BP shells capable of knocking over a small truck.

 

There you have it Talon & Mike who's game for this? Anybody else need the practice for Georgia State ACC Grudge Match?

 

I might need to practice... yeah right.

 

Practice??? What's that???

 

Front sight??? What's that???

[Talon Macleod #29883]

Shooting my own guns with my own ammo is the one hard and fast rule I live by.The late Coyote Calhoun created a stage where we exchanged guns and it was for me when I got them back ,a$250 match. I will loan guns with my ammo.I will consider borrowing guns with your ammo . But, I don`t shoot BP ever.

See you Fri. Tal

[Harman Hammer, SASS #20214]

Talon...

 

We'll talk Friday. Is Kat coming with you?

[Nasty Newt # 7365]

 

Speaking of "OLD SKOOL" and up pops Harman Hammer....both of us at the 17 year mark I believe. Hell, I knew him when he was skinny!

 

Yes, shot Trailhead one year when you started laying down under the wagon shooting at 50 yard targets. Yes, throw the tomahawk, stick the knife, throw the golf ball and the hat (I won that year because of that), keep the shawl on while you shoot and the barber's cape while in the barber's chair BTW. At EOT on the 13th stage when you had to shoot Five or Six staged guns to determine the overall winner of the damn match (frankly, it was a blur...I remember a double barrel, a .22 gallery gun, a stock colt revolver, a 45-70 rolling block and all of your normal guns). Bow and arrow, stick the balloons with the knife and whip the dynamite - ALL ON THE CLOCK.

 

Every gun had a different sequence. One year we had Yatzee dice in a mason jar...whatever came out of the jar was the sequence you had to shoot (i.e. two 3's, one 4, one 5 and one 6 had to be shot in that order with the pistols, then put the dice back in the jar and roll again THEN REVERSE THE NEW DICE ORDER WITH THE RIFLE - all on the clock). My buddies had to restrain me from killing the MD - OK, so I wasn't the most congenial person at the time.

 

You keep the "old school" ways if you like. I am glad things have evolved.

Country music has evolved, too. Do you like Taylor Swift better than Loretta Lynn?

[Korupt Karl]

Bonuses are ok as long as you get a ticket to enter a drawing.....no plus or minus time involved.

 

Stick horses, saddlebags, wood blocks deciding order of targets, etc. have nothing to do with shooting. I will say that I do enjoy stuff before the beep, but I don't enjoy it after.

 

I really like trying to shoot as fast and clean as possible without thinking about other crap not involved in personal performance.

 

When I first started shooting I really enjoyed the stuff, but I thought that that was the way things were....and I'm sure that there are some that still enjoy it. At a monthly, with prior notice, I would probably still enjoy this....or at a members only day....just for fun.

 

I have really embraced the fact that you make the targets hitable for all....hits mean happy people....no matter what you do....the fast will still win.

 

Props are good. New sweeps are fun. Mixing rifle and pistol sweeps....not fun.

 

That's how I see it. Old School was great.....so was the twist and eight tracks, but we are moving on....

 

KK

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

Country music has evolved, too. Do you like Taylor Swift better than Loretta Lynn?

 

At the time they did not like Loretta Lynn, she talked about topics that were supposed to be taboo. Only problem with old school matches for us around here locally is there is so few "old schoolers" around to "enjoy" it. Michigan was not very progressive and hung on to some old school stuff bit longer than most. I remember when I set the first pistol target at my home club at 6 yards. I thought some folks were gonna croak. Current crowd sees pistol target at 7 yards and they say "what is this bullseye" LOL. Everything changes. Nope you don't have to like it. But I've found that if you want to do something different then you have to be willing to take the reins and mix it up, then live with the feedback. Match directing is not for the thin skinned and I have seen a ton of turn over in that department. Yup, I've roped the steer, thrown tomahawk,spears,shot bow and bb guns, pocket pistols derringers, ate Doritos on the clock, rolled dice for shooting order, shot at candle stick sized rifle targets ,taken a shot of prune juice even rolled a cigarette to start a stage once. Had fun then and have just as much fun now. Wouldn't kill me to do that stuff again but can't say that I sit around wishing for it. The good old days are now.

[DanceswithPitBulls]

Badlands, in a bitter sweet way I'm well acquainted with candy bubble gum cigars. For years they were my wife's favorite form of birth control. Seems I have a hard time achieving anything while chewing bubble gum at the same time.

[DanceswithPitBulls]

Smokie Shayne, in many ways I agree with you. The thought of two expert shooters' matches being ultimately decided by which dragged a dummy across the bar the quickest doesn't seem correct. Then again EOT with only one or two Posses ... ain't quite right either. To paraphrase the all-might ... suffer us children shooters that come among you.

[DanceswithPitBulls]

Jrswanson1, God, I love that idea of intentional jacking rounds on the clock. I pity the fools that would ever put us in charge of writing stages. Rifle loaded with eight rounds and staged wherever. Retrieve the rifle and engage the three rifle targets by double tapping each target from left to right. Note: the shooter must expend one unfired cartridge from their weapon before engaging each new target ... take that you bunch of short stroke kit so-in-so's.

[DanceswithPitBulls]

Constable Nelson, unfortunately you are right ... It's a brave new World. Sure, I understand if only I practiced a little harder, and devoted myself to the game ... excuse me ... sport, after all games are meant to be fun. I could maybe be as good as you ... and hence find no need for all the silliness. After all we are a legitimate shooting activity dedicated solely to competition based purely on speed and accuracy where only the top shooters should survive. Then, again I might get discouraged and quite the whole "Professional" thing. Hey, anyone ever heard of "Western Three Gun" ?

[DanceswithPitBulls]

McKenzie, tell Evil Bob to do his worst. I'll be dancing on his grave.

[DanceswithPitBulls]

Thanks for letting the badger loose.

[DanceswithPitBulls]

Yes, Marauder, major matches are a whole different animal and requires a sharp pencil when it comes to writing stages. Reining back on the silliness, and blind chance stages should be respected. Tempered of course, with something San Quentin and Coyote Calhoun always said during the Mule Camp Opening Ceremonies ... If winning means that much to anyone ... we'll buy you a freaking plaque.

[DanceswithPitBulls]

Who doesn't take us seriously ? At best I see a handful of observers at our monthly matches, and most seem encouraging. So, you must mean those paramilitary wanna-bes who expect us to keep their range tidy for them while they destroy our cowboy town with their "hostage rescue, liquor store robbery scenarios". Or maybe you mean those elitist trap-shooting f...olks with their number eight shot brains. Well, pardon me if I "skeet" on them all. I gave up being taken seriously shortly after marriage.

[Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884]

I really like trying to shoot as fast and clean as possible without thinking about other crap not involved in personal performance.

 

 

 

KK

While I don't disagree with most of what you say I have a different opinion about adding a little extra thinking on a stage. "Anybody" can shoot here, move there and shoot and then move there and shoot. But, I think adding a little extra, like flipping a card to determine shooting sequence, on the clock, doesn't create a disadvantage but in fact, creates a better overall competitor. One who shoot AND think under stress.

 

Fillmore

[jrswanson1]

If I wrote stages like the match director for the 3-gun matches I used to go to did I think I'd be lynched. That guy had some crazy ideas. Plus we not only shot steel we had paper targets, too. I keep fighting the urge to go downrange to paste targets when someone is done. Hey, I think I'll submit a zombie stage to one of the local match directors to see what they say. Add a full reload to one of the stages for the rifle, 10 shots for the shotgun, and one full pistol reload. That'll slow things down. Make that the last stage.

[Harvey Mushman]

Wow, DanceswithPitBulls! Agree with your points, but I thought semiauto posting fire was WBAS teritory!?

 

For me. I like the variety, (primarily off the clock) but variety, fun and a little mental exercise is an attraction for me in SASS.

[DanceswithPitBulls]

Dang It Dan, as I mentioned in my post to Marauder. Major matches are another animal entirely and stages with elements of chance should be completely eliminated. Afterall, you elite shooters should compete strictly on your skills alone. Fun should be left to local monthly matches. Frankly, I feel foolish even to be in the same Posse with some of you at major matches ... especially at nearly $200 less expenses for the privilege.

 

Perhaps it's time this sport did evolve. First, lets do away with all those needless categories. All we really need are three ... Traditional, Duelist, and Gunfighter. The rest are meant to just make us hackers feel a sense of false accomplishment. Women you want equality .. it's called "overall scoring" so drop the pretense of "Ladies" categories. Children, it's time you learn that adults really don't take you seriously and your slow times (much like the elderly with their memory lapses) are quite annoying. If it weren't for their slave-like obedience to retrieve brass and reset targets one wonders what the minimum and maximum shooters age would be.

 

How about this ? We cut back to only three gender/age/caliber/powder/garb neutral categories. In the sense of generosity we keep them open to everyone at the State level ... though fun will be kept to a minimum. All major matches (other than these State Championships) are then by invitation only. The Fifty Traditional, Duelist, and Gunfighter State Champions plus a few of the Match Director's friends to round out the field. With twelve properly written "stand and deliver stages" EOT could be done in a day including stage set-up and take down..

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

While I don't disagree with most of what you say I have a different opinion about adding a little extra thinking on a stage. "Anybody" can shoot here, move there and shoot and then move there and shoot. But, I think adding a little extra, like flipping a card to determine shooting sequence, on the clock, doesn't create a disadvantage but in fact, creates a better overall competitor. One who shoot AND think under stress.

 

Fillmore

 

With all due respect - learning to make changes to their game plan and adapt "on the clock" may well make a better shooter - but when we insert the variable of chance, i.e. different shooting sequences from a turn of the card. At that point - you have compromised the results.

 

Imo, you cannot compare scores when the participants didn't shoot (or have the opportunity to shoot) the same shoot.

[DanceswithPitBulls]

Hammer, I hope my opinions on this topic (and the Auburn/Clemson thing) won't exclude me from the fun in April at Cherokee. In fact, I have a new 97 I can't wait to try out. It belonged to my dearly departed Grandpa, and has quite the history to it. He claims the Norinco once saved his life in the trenches near Bayonne. It was with his final breath he sold me that shotgun ... plus handling and transfer fees ... and first refusal buyback upon reincarnation.

[Ace_of_Hearts]

I thought you might like to read and see pictures of these old school stages.

Please note the distance of the targets in the pictures. The camera makes them seem a little farther than they are but not much.

http://www.reloadammo.com/co030897.htm

 

And some pictures and results of that shoot.

You will recognize many of the names listed.

http://blogidaho.biz/earthlink/stampede.htm

[Nasty Newt # 7365]

Those were fun matches out in the Nevada desert. We had some adventures with the weather, though!

[crooked jake,4371]

While I don't disagree with most of what you say I have a different opinion about adding a little extra thinking on a stage. "Anybody" can shoot here, move there and shoot and then move there and shoot. But, I think adding a little extra, like flipping a card to determine shooting sequence, on the clock, doesn't create a disadvantage but in fact, creates a better overall competitor. One who shoot AND think under stress.

 

Fillmore

yepper!!!!