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Old School Matches


DanceswithPitBulls

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At last week's match I heard a new term ... "Old School Matches". After a decade and a half of SASS I instinctively knew it's definition. It meant a match full of inventive stages, full of props, and perhaps a match peppered with a bit of silliness. Todays matches seem to be a homologous mix of the same tired targets, and the same tired patterns leading to the ultimate conclusion of which of the same six or so shooters are the fastest. Seems invention has now been relegated to any stage not ending with the same four shotgun targets engaged in any order. I'm surprised some club hasn't adopted "Gymnastic Matches". Shooters would just shoot the same stage over and over then toss out their highest and lowest scores for the winning average.

 

And before someone brings it up ... Yes, I've submitted ideas for stages. I submitted 19 stages last year (both originals and remembered stages from long ago matches) ... and to date none have surfaced. None were even returned for review or rewrite. On a semi-bright note, I'm told one local club does have a once a year "Old School" type match, but they feel the need to warn shooters who may not want to attend the like.

 

Funny how easily you can start a conversation about shooters' favorite or most remembered stages yet strangely they show no interest in revisiting them ... some even threaten to boycott such events.

 

Anyway, I'd like to hear objections against ... and ideas for such stages.

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This always comes up.......I shot those stages and they weren't always as good as you "remember". The same shooter's that won back then and are still around today are winning now too.......so nothing has really changed.

 

Plus for me I didn't join SASS to be silly.....I joined it to have fun shooting and become a better "all round" shooter because we are one of the few shooting sports that let you shoot a rifle, pistol and shotgun.

 

IMHO it the silliness that makes so many people not take us as serious shooters.

 

IF the match is setup right it doesn't have to be repetitive, easy or have you ride a toy rocking horse in a ladies wig to be fun....just another shooter's point of view,

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Many of those most remembered stages from years past deal with significant failures on the stages. The bucking horse half the shooters rode before it broke and could not be repaired at a Regional match, pistol knockdowns that would not fall at a. state championship match causing two stages to be thrown out since when retested would not fall no matter where hit with calibration loads, a state championship match with a sequence so bad the first posse to shoot it, half the shooters had Ps, before stage thrown out, a state match requiring a knife to be thrown at a log on the clock and if it did not stick, shooter got a 5 sec miss recorded, a jail door that had to be opened to start a stage, that some shooters could not open at all, without both shooter and RO pulling on it, a stage requiring a full size stuffed dummy to be carried at a major match, from gun to gun (unfortunately it rained all night and dummy was so heavy some shooters could not even lift it, much less carry it-this after half the posses shot it before the rain), etc. Yup some of those stages from olden days are very memorable.

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Hi Dances,

 

I've been to recent matches that were somewhat "old school." I believe they did a good job of ensuring that the on-the-clock "silly" stuff was the same for everyone. That is key to that type of match.

 

Bad examples sure stand out in my mind, like fishing a bolt out of a bowl of string with chop sticks and shooting through sheets that were blowing on a clothes line.

 

Good examples, were staging long guns in a coffin and carrying a bag of "gold" or Little Nell from position to position.

 

Maybe folks could post some positive ideas on things to spice up matches that don't throw an element of chance into the stage. Or, post off-the-clock fun things to spice up a match.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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I like what the match director at Cherokee Cowboys does....Badlands "Evil" Bob. Evil Bob takes notes on the most griped about stages during the year at the Cherokee Cowboys matches and puts the 6 most griped about stages all in one match in April and it is called the "Evil Bob" match. Everyone knows it will be the Evil Bob match and it is always well attended. It one of the most enjoyable matches I shoot each year.

 

I've only been in the game for 3 years so I have not actually participated in some of the more "entertaining" stages of yesteryear. My take on that is as long as everyone can physically participate and there is no compromise in safety I'd be up for it. However some of what I have heard about stages where the props are defective (hard to open doors, heavy dummies to drag around...and the like) would certainly give rise to much attention being given to the props.

 

Kajun

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I believe that the best of both worlds is still possible. While it is a thin line between simple and challenging, confusing and easily understood, fun and boring, a good stage writer will walk that line. Is it easy? No, but it IS doable. Start a stage with shooter holding a rubber chicken and saying a goofy line. Or start with hands on pistols, a mean look in your eye and say, "Draw pilgrim!" like John Wayne, or throw a stick of dynamite, or stab a dummy with a knife, or a million other things that are fun, won't harm a shooters stage time and make Cowboy Action Shooting what it is and was meant to be.

 

Also, some responsibility for the enjoyment of a match must belong to the shooter. If you find the targets too easy, challenge yourself to shoot all the cowboys in the head, or center mass with a 4" group. Shoot from the hip or Jose Wales. Or shoot black powder and/or cap and ball pistols. Or go somewhere else. Just don't blame everyone else for your lack of fun.

 

Personally, if a club around here had all/mostly stand and deliver, with pistol targets at 4 yds and rifle targets at 7 yds, 10-10-4 on every stage, circles and squares for every target, no start lines or props, etc., I would get bored rather quickly and would go somewhere else. For me it is most definitely not ONLY about the shooting, but I don't want to see senseless shooting sequences, little/far targets, on-the-clock non-shooting time bonuses, 50 yd dashes or rolling around on the ground, either.

 

Possum

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I think my quarrel with stages today are they are either 10-10-4, 5 yards 7 yards 10 yards and "Heavens, don't move your feet" or you have to stick a tomahawk in a stump on the clock no matter how many tries it takes, before you can shoot the rest of the stage.

 

One of our better stages is-All guns staged in a wagon- 2 shots shot gun, 5 pistol, 2 shots shotgun, 10 rifle, 2 shots shotgun, 5 pistol, 2 shots shotgun.

One we are going to try is 5 shooting locations: 2 shots shotgun from each location: shoot from location 1, 4, 2, 5, 3. All targets must go down, up targets can be made up from position 2 after initial 10 shots are made. No rifle, no pistol.

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So the old school matches were like current 3-gun matches, but with lower round counts? How about we make it more interesting, and have to reload revolver or rifle on the clock, too? :P

 

There's a beautiful simplicity with CAS that you don't get with high round count 3-gun that I enjoy.

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I was given a copy of the stages from the 1st Mule Camp in 1996 (Southeastern Regional) . I thought it would be fun to pull some stages from there and shoot them in a monthly match. There was not a single stage that I could use. There were stages you did all the shooting either lying or sitting on the ground. And then there was the one where you climbed up on the buckboard wagon on the clock and did your shooting seated on the wagon. I'd have the ER full after the 1st posse. There was another where you shot 5 rounds out of your pistol and reload 5 rounds and shoot again. I don't know how the cap and ball folks handled that one. Lots of pistol reload stages.

 

Time have changed.

 

We still carry bags of gold, babies and Easter baskets around. We even shoot knockdown rats and whiskey bottles on occasion along with a heavy dose of poppers and plate racks. You can spice up a stage with just the starting line. If it's a 1-3-1 sweep the starting line can be 2-1-2. You'll be surprised how much fun you can have with that. You just need a fertile imagination.

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To me a perfect match tests the ability to run the guns at speed, shoot accurately and transition smoothly. It's not a sudoku match, or a game of memory, nor is it a track meet, a marathon, or a bullseye match. We occasionally get matches intended to help us 'develop' as shooters. Those can be OK, but I generally show up at a match to have fun and practice to develop. It's been my experience that 'development' gets rolled out when folks are unhappy with a match that is poorly written. Introducing chance into the stage is a bad idea in my view.

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I don't know how the cap and ball folks handled that one.

 

Extra cylinders would do it.

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I was given a copy of the stages from the 1st Mule Camp in 1996 (Southeastern Regional) . I thought it would be fun to pull some stages from there and shoot them in a monthly match. There was not a single stage that I could use. There were stages you did all the shooting either lying or sitting on the ground. And then there was the one where you climbed up on the buckboard wagon on the clock and did your shooting seated on the wagon. I'd have the ER full after the 1st posse. There was another where you shot 5 rounds out of your pistol and reload 5 rounds and shoot again. I don't know how the cap and ball folks handled that one. Lots of pistol reload stages.

 

Time have changed.

 

We still carry bags of gold, babies and Easter baskets around. We even shoot knockdown rats and whiskey bottles on occasion along with a heavy dose of poppers and plate racks. You can spice up a stage with just the starting line. If it's a 1-3-1 sweep the starting line can be 2-1-2. You'll be surprised how much fun you can have with that. You just need a fertile imagination.

Any match director that did the 1-3-1, 2-1-2 would be hung from the closest tree. Building obvious P traps is not funny for a bunch of old fart shooters.

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Hey,

 

I just got a scenario idea.

 

Pistols (three near targets), first five shots: 1-3-1, L to R or R to L. Second five shots 2-1-2, L to R or R to L.

Rifle (three far targets), first five shots: 1-3-1, L to R or R to L. Second five shots 2-1-2, L to R or R to L.

 

Allie <insert diabolical laugh> Mo

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Extra cylinders would do it.

I would stage a charged but uncapped revolver at the reload location and cap when I got there. That would save the time that would be expended swapping cylinders.

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We started the timer laying down on a bedroll, all guns staged on props, got on and off the horse, in and out of the claw foot bathtub, crawled under the fence, shot from prone under the wagon, crouched behind an overturned table in the bar -- most of that is beyond what a lot of our pards can do now. Did we have a good time? Heck, yeah! Some nostalgia may be because folks remember being agile enough to do those things........

 

Some fun things can still be done, like busting through the saloon doors, starting with branding iron in hands, making some nice props to give the place some character, picking different themes for the match. It's very hard to come up with new ideas month after month, year after year. I am in debt to those that patiently walked my stages with me -- pointing out safety issues, P traps and other flaws -- when I was learning to write stages. What is acceptable has certainly changed over the years, many things we used to do would horrify a Match Director now!

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Hey,

 

I just got a scenario idea.

 

Pistols (three near targets), first five shots: 1-3-1, L to R or R to L. Second five shots 2-1-2, L to R or R to L.

Rifle (three far targets), first five shots: 1-3-1, L to R or R to L. Second five shots 2-1-2, L to R or R to L.

 

Allie <insert diabolical laugh> Mo

Allie...I'd say I like it but then Evil Bob would include it in the Evil Bob match. :lol::D

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How about this one? Laying down on your back, feet up on wheels, shoot 4 shotgun shells at 4 targets, get up (while keeping the shotgun in a safe direction), move to the other side of the wagon, same deal. I had to do that with a semi-auto shotgun, which turned it into a straight pull bolt shotgun, with feet on jeep wheels.

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I like some moving targets thrown in, I even like the Texas Star. Good starting lines, said with gusto (or changed to be funny) doesn't slow anyone down, and doing things off the clock can be fun too. Crawling around, getting up off of the ground (unless there is help around) doesn't work so well for me!! Shooting from a buckboard, where you start there and have all you guns stationed on it, is fun too. I like to shoot more than just the 10-10-4, that certainly gets boring pretty darn quickly. So, some of the Old School Matches scenarios can be worked in, with a little thought for the age of so many of our shooters. ;)

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Any match director that did the 1-3-1, 2-1-2 would be hung from the closest tree. Building obvious P traps is not funny for a bunch of old fart shooters.

I get threatened on a regular basis. It's all in fun. Once a year I pull out all the strange and unique targets and let the imagination run wild. They accuse me of being Evil so I call it the Evil Bob match. I let them know in advance so they come with the right mind set. I got the idea from the Twisted Sister match I read about on line. This year I'm introducing the Super Stage. 20 rifle, 20 pistol and 10+ shotgun. All knockdown or break targets and the spotters on have to count bonuses. There will be plate racks, Texas star, whiskey bottles to knock over and several poppers.

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I get threatened on a regular basis. It's all in fun. Once a year I pull out all the strange and unique targets and let the imagination run wild. They accuse me of being Evil so I call it the Evil Bob match. I let them know in advance so they come with the right mind set. I got the idea from the Twisted Sister match I read about on line. This year I'm introducing the Super Stage. 20 rifle, 20 pistol and 10+ shotgun. All knockdown or break targets and the spotters on have to count bonuses. There will be plate racks, Texas star, whiskey bottles to knock over and several poppers.

I see...hmmm....no rats or Bar 3 chickens please :unsure::blink::wacko:

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I remember Old School matches. I love how when ever talk about the olden days starts it goes right to the nightmare examples. I don't think for the most part stages have changed to much around the mid-west. Yeah there's a few different sweeps that don't get used much, but that is not the end of the world. Of course I'm talking about the early 2000's as old school. I remember those times. CAS was growing in leaps and bounds. New guns and gadgets were coming out all the time. Most state and regional matches had a good supply of vendors. Oh yeah, no one knew that a 12"-14" pistol target at 7 yrds. was an unfair target. Plus we never realized at the time that a rifle target past 12yrds-15yrds was unhitable. I didn't realize that was holding the game back so much. I will not even address the knock down targets and pop can throwers. They still add nothing to a match but headaches.

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Starting lines said with gusto (as was said before by Nevada Skye), strum a guitar and sing a line from "I'm an old cow hand," off the clock to signal "ready".

How about throw a knife at a bale of straw, or a 'hawk at a log, or shoot a bow and arrow...all off the clock but for bonus points IF you stick the knife, hawk, or hit the target with the arrow?

Carrying the bag of gold between stations gives no advantage or disadvantage to anyone.

Shoot a longer-range target as one of the rifle or pistol shots, say 30 yards or so..

Start a stage with two shots from a pocket pistol or derringer.

 

10-10-4 is fun and fast, but the above--thrown in for fun--just makes it all more fun, IMHO.

Bridger

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I shoot with the North County Shootist at Pala in North San Diego county and their monthly match is pretty old school. There is a lot of movement with props to shoot thru on every stage. Depending on when you shoot it there could be 24 knock down targets on one stage all rifle pistol and a walk thru town with 16 shotgun knock downs. Lately we haven't been using the buckboard because getting on and off has become quite perilous for many shooters especially when loaded guns are involved. The targets are all small and placed far away. In all the years that I've shot there I've only seen one clean match, there could be more, I don't know. I know what to expect when I shoot there so I just shoot to have fun.

 

The Cowboys at Norco, Ca. are trying to bring back a little of the old school fun. Smokestack is the new stage writer and he has done a good job of mixing in a little old school fun here and there. JJ up at Cajon has built some incredible stage facades and has really livened the place up and the turnout for his matches shows that he is moving in the right direction and he mixes in a little old school also. At the other two clubs that I shoot with its kind of hard to get old school because of the space limitations and movement is fairly limited because of that. We do say lines before the beep and I enjoy that part of it.

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Cowboy Junkie, maybe I got the story wrong, but I thought the origin of this sport was sort of as a protest against the overly serious practical shooters. A group of guys with their single action revolvers and their hourglass reload times going head to head against Speed racer and his five figured "Race Gun" ... simply to have fun.

 

Are far as being taken seriously ... have you seen the costumes ? Heard the aliases ? Personally, I think it's exactly this self-effacing attitude that attracts many beginners. The thought of shooting "falling plates" on the same range as Rob Leatham is daunting. Engaging the "Texas Death Star" against "Lead Dispencer" with candy cigars in our mouths ... not so much.

 

Strange how the memory plays tricks on us. Most of the "silly" stages I remember most came from State or Regional matches. The very matches you would expect the most seriousness as opposed to a local monthly supposedly "fun" match.

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Gold Canyon Kid, sound like we've shot many of the same matches ... though I don't recall nearly as many problems with the props.

 

I do remember complaints about a stage I wrote requiring four shotgun ... movement, then two pistols ... movement, then four more shotguns ... movement, then rifle followed by four more shotgun targets

 

1) Too much ammo required. (I was told some shooters come with the barest minimum of ammo. I rewrote offsetting ammo-wise by a later stage having no shotgun targets)

 

2) Not everyone has room to carry twelve shells on their person. (Another rewrite with Barrels placed at each shooter stopping point and allowing them to stage their shells there)

 

3) Too much movement. (Yep, must have been twenty feet total ...)

 

4) That many consecutive shotgun shells might damage the weapons of some Black Powder shooters.

 

5) Final re-write ... start standing behind a table, hands placed anywhere you wish. On your right are hay bales, and on your left a barrel. Stage weapons anywhere you chose muzzles pointed down range. Say whatever line you wish and at the beep engage the single pistol target, the single rifle target, or the single shotgun target in whichever order you want. Note: All weapons must be emptied at the end of the stage, but the specific round count is shooters' choice.

 

Seems everyone can find fault about something.

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Allie,

I would make it a bonus, just not time bonus. All shooters who stick the hay bale get entered in a drawing for a special prize or something...

 

At our annual, we gave away two very nice Bowie knives this way. No complaints yet.

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Allie,

I would make it a bonus, just not time bonus. All shooters who stick the hay bale get entered in a drawing for a special prize or something...

 

At our annual, we gave away two very nice Bowie knives this way. No complaints yet.

Or a box of shotgun shells, or a fee-paid certificate for next month's match, or....

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Thanks Allie Mo for your comments and suggestions. That's what my topic was meant to elicit. Weird that the chosen few seem to have no objection to what we "locals" call vomit targets (shotgun knock-downs that launch a secondary target skyward), but replace the usual clay bird with say a raw egg, lump of charcoal, or head of lettuce and somehow their efforts are cheapen.

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