Gun store owner halts federal raid

[Subdeacon Joe]

More strong arm tactics by the feds

http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/03/12/gun-store-owner-halts-federal-raid/#axzz2vqJVQLoO

 

Karras said the ATF threatened to shutter their business if they didn’t hand over the names of 5,000 customers who have purchased an 80 percent lower receiver (the base) for building an AR-15.

It is legal to build a rifle from scratch without serial numbers only if the base is manufactured to ATF specifications. The base is not considered a firearm if it’s sold separately.

A manufacturer made an 80 percent receiver in plastic with a different material and colors which show exactly where the customer can drill making it easier and cheaper to build. The ATF said it is illegal.

The ATF sent stores, including Ares Armor, letters demanding they turn over the products and names of customers who purchased them.

“They said either give us these 5000 names or we are coming in and taking pretty much anything – which is a huge privacy concern and something we are not willing to do,” said Karras.

Karras’s attorney informed the ATF to pick up the receivers Wednesday morning at their Oceanside location, but the inventory was not the issue. The store owner said he will not comply with turning over their private client list.

 

Read more: http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/03/12/gun-store-owner-halts-federal-raid/#ixzz2vqZO55e6

[Colonel Dan, SASS #24025]

An overt form of Citizen level Nullification in California!!!

 

If history is any guide, I believe as the federal screws tighten, we'll see more examples of this.

 

Just the view from my foxhole...

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

If this is a change in ruling, Where something that was legal is now illegal, it is inevitable that the atf will get their list.

Remember that the NFA provides ATF the rules, and the ability to make rulings.

 

This is one of the tragedies of giving a cabinet post the right to change lists, definitions, etc.

 

Laws should be written directly. Stating that these specific things are illegal. To add more illegal things requires congress to pass another law.

[Subdeacon Joe]

If this is a change in ruling, Where something that was legal is now illegal, it is inevitable that the atf will get their list.

Remember that the NFA provides ATF the rules, and the ability to make rulings.

 

This is one of the tragedies of giving a cabinet post the right to change lists, definitions, etc.

 

Laws should be written directly. Stating that these specific things are illegal. To add more illegal things requires congress to pass another law.

 

That is something I keep writing to my Representative (Mike Thompson, D, CA 5th) about. ALL the regulatory agencies need to be dialed back so that they can no longer make laws. They need a new "regulation?" Find, get with Congress and have a law passed. We have way too much law that has been made by unelected bureaucrats in agencies like IRS, BATFE, EPA, OSHA, etc. If it's a law at the federal level we need to follow, it needs to go through Congress.

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

To dial parts of ATF actions back, the NFA needs to be "reauthorized" without language that permits the cabinet post/secretary to decide things..

That probably wont happen until the congress is in the hands of republicants and we have a much less liberal POTUS.

 

Going forward from here, current legislators need to remove that language.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

 

http://www.guns.com/2014/03/17/ares-armor-raided-atf-restraining-order-overruled/

 

more on thier Facebook page:

 

https://www.facebook.com/AresArmor

 

GG ~

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

The top link looks strange. Like it was fake.

Do ATF agents wear jackets that say ATF POLICE ?

I have never been at a ATF raid.

But real question is WHY would the ATF raid a location with a Restraining order against them?

 

Their facebook page doesn't appear to have anything either.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

The top link looks strange. Like it was fake.

Do ATF agents wear jackets that say ATF POLICE ?

I have never been at a ATF raid.

But real question is WHY would the ATF raid a location with a Restraining order against them?

 

Their facebook page doesn't appear to have anything either.

 

This ain't fake fella...

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/17/feds-work-around-restraining-order-to-execute-search-warrant-on-gun-parts-store/

 

GG ~

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

The top link looks strange. Like it was fake.

Do ATF agents wear jackets that say ATF POLICE ?

I have never been at a ATF raid.

But real question is WHY would the ATF raid a location with a Restraining order against them?

 

Their facebook page doesn't appear to have anything either.

TRO allowed for investigation of illegal activities, including a raid.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

TRO allowed for investigation of illegal activities, including a raid.

 

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/atf-raids-ares-armor-to-confiscate-legally-protected-customer-list/question-4233721/?link=ibaf&q=TRO+allows+raid+on+gun+shop

 

(scroll down on the link for the story)

 

GG ~

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

 

This ain't fake fella...

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/17/feds-work-around-restraining-order-to-execute-search-warrant-on-gun-parts-store/

 

GG ~

 

The 2nd video looks like atf types carting off a bunch of stuff.

The 1st video is rather useless and merely shows entry.

 

 

I did call this correctly when I said the atf would get their list.

See my post #3 in this thread.

 

 

But that all assumes that the ares people actually left all that info at the store.

It also implies that the atf can actually read/find the info they want.

Even if they find info, it might be encrypted.

Yet if all government agencies work together which is not always the case that would not stop them for long, as NSA is most likely able to crack most any encryption.

 

Of course the original thread title has been proven to be BS.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

 

The 2nd video looks like atf types carting off a bunch of stuff.

The 1st video is rather useless and merely shows entry.

 

 

I did call this correctly when I said the atf would get their list.

See my post #3 in this thread.

 

 

But that all assumes that the ares people actually left all that info at the store.

It also implies that the atf can actually read/find the info they want.

Even if they find info, it might be encrypted.

Yet if all government agencies work together which is not always the case that would not stop them for long, as NSA is most likely able to crack most any encryption.

 

Of course the original thread title has been proven to be BS.

 

I just called that it was real when you questioned it's authenticity

 

..and it was.

 

GG ~

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

My question why was a list even keep on lowers that were not required to be background checked upon purchase, only should be sale reciepts at the most and if they paid cash then the ATF is SOL?

 

KK

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

My question why was a list even keep on lowers that were not required to be background checked upon purchase, only should be sale reciepts at the most and if they paid cash then the ATF is SOL?

 

KK

 

Yeah - all I know is if I had bought one of thier lowers I would be expecting the BATF to show up at my door - anytime.

 

GG ~

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

If it isn't a traceable item ie a firearm why would a vendor have a list of customers?

I could theoretically walk in buy in cash and voila no trace possible.

(Well except the picture by the drone outside....lol).

Unless they have bar codes on everything and do it all by barcodes and scans.

And they require identity of customer for returns etc.....

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

From Ares FB page..

 

*deleted*

 

can't post this video because of some strong language but it is on their page that is interesting...or found on You Tube (along with many other vids on this issue).

 

It's called 'Why Ares vs ATF Should Outrage America'

 

 

GG ~