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Category Elimination


John Barleycorn, SASS #76982

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Senior Duelist is a strange combination of age first, then style, then disregard the fixed sight prohibition that other duelists must work under. This one was not thought out well. It really should be redefined or, better, eliminated.

 

In my opinion, it's the poster child for "I want a category I can win in with the guns I've got" rather than following some sort of logic.

 

Good luck, GJ

Joe-since it 'aged-based', adjustable sights are GTG :wacko:

Yeah-I know that's nutz, since you can't use'm in the 'parent' category of Duelist. :huh:

IMHO-There should only be 2 categories. Pants or skirts, that's it............ :lol:

You want "logic"? :unsure: Have you forgot'n this is SASS........ :lol::lol:

L(SD)G

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Way to Go JB, you got all these folks wound up :P

 

Ready to show me up Gunfighter style on Saturday?

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We need MORE costume categories!

 

Saloon girl for example, with cleavage and short skirt requirements!

 

:D

Some men have too many distractions as is!
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as long as we are all throwing our two bits in , i am over 60 and i enjoy shooting with the younger folks to see what the future of SASS looks like , im real proud to say ive been shooting with a family that had two out of three buckaroos shooting when we first met , its been fun watching them grow , and it bothers me not when one of them outshoots me because id like to think if this was available when i was their age id be better than i am ,

 

as to the costumes , ive no problem with the basic requirements and those that go all out , it makes matches interesting between shooting stages , ive got a few things over the years and im comfortable with what i wear , i choose these days to spend my money on shooting more rather than increasing the wardrobe , i do need a new pair of boots tho ,

 

as to the category , i started shooting 49ers - i was told it was right for my age at the time when starting out , ive shot B-western because someone complained about the jeans i was wearing , and ive shot senior as that age fit too and someone told me i should change , in the end i shoot against myself , ill be most happy shooting rather than discussing the category i should be in , and ill sign up in whatever works to get to shoot the match , its more about being there , participating , and enjoying those your shooting with & against in the end ,

 

life is good - but its way too short , happy trails to you

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as long as we are all throwing our two bits in , i am over 60 and i enjoy shooting with the younger folks to see what the future of SASS looks like , im real proud to say ive been shooting with a family that had two out of three buckaroos shooting when we first met , its been fun watching them grow , and it bothers me not when one of them outshoots me because id like to think if this was available when i was their age id be better than i am ,

 

as to the costumes , ive no problem with the basic requirements and those that go all out , it makes matches interesting between shooting stages , ive got a few things over the years and im comfortable with what i wear , i choose these days to spend my money on shooting more rather than increasing the wardrobe , i do need a new pair of boots tho ,

 

as to the category , i started shooting 49ers - i was told it was right for my age at the time when starting out , ive shot B-western because someone complained about the jeans i was wearing , and ive shot senior as that age fit too and someone told me i should change , in the end i shoot against myself , ill be most happy shooting rather than discussing the category i should be in , and ill sign up in whatever works to get to shoot the match , its more about being there , participating , and enjoying those your shooting with & against in the end ,

 

life is good - but its way too short , happy trails to you

Best post I've read in a while. Thank you.

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"Delete Senior Duelist. " :wacko:

No way in heck------ :P

Only fair, if all other age based categories go also. ;)

LG

There's no Senior Frontier Cartridge Duelist, There's no Senior Gunfighter to name a few. Why only Senior Duelist??I agree with Allie Mo on this one.

Rye

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Hi Gents,

 

Deleting Senior GF Deulist from the official list is what I intended. Not deleting it from the potential categories that are offered. :blink:

 

If sign up sheets listed the following choices, it might turn up. This is a bit rough, but makes sense to me... ;)

  • Sex
  • Propellant
  • Pistol-shooting Style
  • Age Category (Only select if you want to shoot one of these or have it added to another category choice. If combining with another choice, the age category must be Senior or greater.)
  • Special Categories of Classic, B-Western, Frontiersman.

Once the book/official categories contain a preset number (2 or whatever), additional age-based categories may be offered.

 

For example, I sign up for Ladies Silver Senior. Just like now, I can shoot any propellant, duelist or two handed.

If I sign up for Ladies Black Powder Duelist, just like now, I am a LFCD.

If I sign up for Ladies Senior Duelist, I am not lumped with the Ladies Senior two handed. If there are not sufficient shooters, I would be put with the Ladies Duelist. Unless I told the MD to put me with the LS.

 

Or, maybe we should dump official categories and have a matrix of potential options, like I listed, and have the categories be determined by the number of people signing up for the category. Still I would protect the Special, Junior, and 70+ age categories.

 

I know this needs work... Just brainstorming with myself at this point, with some input from the Professor's Matrix.

 

Sorry, but it just doesn't make sense to me to have only two official age-based shooting style categories, Senior Duelist (M and F) without offering Senior GF, Silver-Senior D...

 

Regards,

 

Allie :ph34r:

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Lets just leave Classic Cowboy and girl alone. We like our big-bore guns and costuming. That is what makes that category. Full loads are fun! Shoot to have fun and remember our true purpose that makes us unique.

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Hi Folks,

 

I agree with David. That is why I listed Classic, BW, and Frontiersman as special and protected categories along with Junior and 70 and +.

 

The three Special Categories are just that. They add much to the variety of our sport and are more work to participate in.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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There's no Senior Frontier Cartridge Duelist, There's no Senior Gunfighter to name a few. Why only Senior Duelist??I agree with Allie Mo on this one.

Rye

You DID read my last sentence in my post you quoted, didn't you? ;)

LG

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Please leave our Costume categories alone. In case you hadn't noticed, you also have requirements on the types of guns, leather, etc. you need. Not to mention that B Western is the ONLY category you can shoot any style you want, including gunfighter. Often times, it is the Classic and B Western categories that have the best dressed shooters, and yes, this is as much about costuming as shooting for many people. To each his own.

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Wow!!! What's up with all of this complaining about category's and so on.

 

I have been involved in SASS Cowboy Shooting since 1988 and it has grown faster then any sport around. We have clubs that do there very best to make every one happy in this fantastic sport of Cowboy Action Shooting.

 

Lots of folks ages 10 and above having lots of fun the older folks who really saw the cowboys on the silver screen re-living there past. Leave the dam categories alone and let all these folks alone to go ahead and choose a category and have a fantastic time doing so. My SASS number is 414 and now it's above 99,000 and still growing.

 

Just get into a category and do your very best shooting, having lots of fun and meet some fantastic folks from all countries that are involved in this Shooting Sport.

 

With great respect to all of you and see you on the range.

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OK, I'll stick my foot in my mouth here. It's the only thing I excel at that! At our local matches, although we sign up in categories, we don't give awards, (used to give a paper certificate, years ago, now we just wait for the results to get posted on the web-sites). We know who we're competing against... for me, it's not the top guys but the other fellas with the "smoke and boom" I try to stay within 20 seconds reach of the top guys... most-times not too successfully.

 

But then at the bigger multi-day shoots, I am competing against the other folks who decided to sign up in the same category as me. They are my competitors. They are the ones, whose times I compare mine to. They are the ones I try to beat, or get beaten by (mostly). Would I even bother if we were all lumped together and I was racing against the "Top 16" (or however many are good enough to make the shoot-offs)?? Nope. The category system is what has helped this "family entertainment" sport grow as it has.

 

I don't care how you spin it, a Senior shooter usually has a few physical hurdles earned along the way a 20-something shooter hasn't acquired yet. If a Senior wants to shoot with and against the younger guns, he certainly may, but once all Seniors are forced into direct competition with the younger shooters as part of an over-all category, you'll lose the bulk of them.

 

I shoot cap n' ball... it has it's own particular challenges and difficulties... Do I want to shoot directly against those who don't have to occasionally fight their errant percussion caps fouling their gun? Or, those that don't have their thumbs lock up with tendinitis because of heavy springs required to keep the hammers down on said cap?

 

If you don't believe there are physical differences between an Elder Statesman and someone just entering Senior Category, you're living in a dream world.

Age-based Categories acknowledge a reality, and allow those who choose to, shoot against those of similar physical realities. If you choose to shoot with the younger crowd, then you have the ability to do so. But, if arthritis has deformed your spine and knees like others of your age, you've earned the right to shoot within that age protected category.

 

Don't forget that SASS is also in the entertainment business. If this thing we have ceases to be fun, and just becomes a grind for the prize (such as it is) you'll lose me, my duck call, and a whole bunch of others.

 

Duc

I must agree...I shoot in Silver Senior and has recently changed to Duelist. Some matches have SSD category and some do not. I enjoy and look forward to dressing up on Saturdays, shooting 4 guns and in 5 or 6 stages... Travel to some local matches ( here in Florida) and like competing against others in my age bracket and shooting style. I had someone say to me once "choose your category wisely". I have bad knees and can longer move like some of the younger shooters and without age based groups the competition would not be any fun.

We as a group are looking to keep and build the organization not break it apart.

 

Just my $.02

 

Redstone Rider

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Hey Pards: I have to add something to the entry I placed awhile ago about this growing sport. Well a little 9yr old little girl aka Phoebe Ann Moses from South East Texas has joined SASS and her number is 100,001.

 

 

Simply fantastic.

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"Delete Senior Duelist. " :wacko:

No way in heck------ :P

Only fair, if all other age based categories go also. ;)

LG

My point exactly, there is no Senior FCD or Senior GF, cant let 'em go if they're not there! so…………..why Senior Duelist? What exactly don't you understand about what I'm saying? Enlighten me please??

 

Rye :)

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As soon as we put down a seat for everyone playing musical chairs, we have no point anyway. If we think we are performing to the maximum of our ability then the one that we should be striving to please would be well served. If our goal is to award everyone, it is then hollow and we as individuals are so starved for attention that we are not even embarrassed by unearned attention. I will celebrate my next birthday quietly with my family, not running to monthly match's, 12 to 48 times a year, seeking recognition for may age by receiving a mass printed copy of an award based on my birth date. You can not shoot worth a damn but you shore are old, congratulations and here is yore piece of paper. NO THANKS, I do not want to be put through that in front of a bunch of people!

 

Costumes are great, shux, they are even required and there are few months that go by in which something doesnt show up in the Chronicle urging us to strive to improve our costuming. Sadly I do not think that adding categories to improve costuming is the answer. Whats next, Indian Wars Category, must include saber and German Shepherd named Rin Tin Tin? Or how about my favorite costume, the Comanchero with extra points for booze breath, beard stubble and appropriate underarm odor! Since shooting categories are not as much about costumes, perhaps we should start adding and deducting points from the costume based category scores based on costume development skills?? There have been a few times in the distant past that dividing categories up into major/minor classes was wanted by some but it never got any traction. Perhaps even back then fokes didnt want to double the number of categories? If that were the true reason the jokes on us, we now have four times the categories and most newer ones do not have a dang thing to do with shooting! But we gots lots of 1st to 3rd place champions shooting now, by breaking down into categories of two or three shooters! If I can not compete against the best, then I need more practice, not a better costume OR another category!

 

Shooting is about shooting and all the rest should be for Sat nights get together.

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Take the Western Heritage, the Cowboy/girl, the historical attire, the B-Movie heroes of yester-year out of CAS and you have diminished the Spirit of the Game. You might as well call it "OGSOG" .....................Old Guys Shooting Old Guns.

 

As far as the comment about the "Locals laughing at the clothing". That must be a local thing, out here in the west we cherish our western heritage and are proud of it. I went to the Classic Cowboy Awards Dinner in Cave Creek the other night and every time I went to the bar I had a gaggle of folks wanting to take pictures and asking about SASS and Winter Range. This is called.... Promoting the Sport.

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What exactly don't you understand about what I'm saying? Enlighten me please??

 

Rye :)

Lighten up.....

It was said(did you not see the emoticons)'tongue-in-cheek', as I shoot SD.

We have way to many categories now, and that can be a turn off to folks look'n to play the game with us.

 

LG

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A new category.....shooting by sundial, might work for me!!!! But what do we do on cloudy days??? :D

 

It seems to me that any age category, ie duelist, GF, etc., would have to follow the same rules as the non-age ones, the only difference being the age requirement. I am looking forward to the RO refresher course we are taking next month that will helpfully help clear up the questions I have sometimes.

 

Remember, this is for fun, so have fun the way you want, either with shooting, the costumes, the people, and leave others to have fun the way THEY find it.

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It may make sense to drop Duelist and replace it with Elder Statesman Duelist. We are about running out of Duelists under 60.

 

This is a little tongue in cheek, but the Duelist crew(Duelist, Senior Duelist) is graying at a rate much higher than the overall SASS population.

You don't have to shoot age based, when is someone 70 prevented from shooting Duelist?

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" At the 2011 TG Summit, SASS announced that in 2013, clubs were no longer required to offer categories that have fewer than 5 entries. Clubs have the option to offer the categories with less than five entries but are no longer required to offer them."

What am I missing?
If a match has 2 entrants for "Wrangler" they don't have to offer that category. However if they have 10 entrants requesting FCGF or any other "unofficial" category the MD can offer that category. So officially recognized category or not, if there is not enough participants it is up to the MD as to what is offered.

I shoot FCGF but could try "5'10" BP Shooters with Brown Hats and Red Shirts"
:P
MTC

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I think we have a Modern category where all the firearms invented in the last 10 years of the cowboy era are required.

This would specifically place the Win 1897 in this category.

Guns like the Win 1892 and 1894 and Marlin 1894 would also be in this category.

And other guns grandfathered in such as the Ruger Blackhawks would all be in this category.

 

Also all those guns would be BANNED from other categories.

This would make all the other categories more representative of the time they pretend to portray.

(No I am not advocating a change to a NCOWS like system.)

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" At the 2011 TG Summit, SASS announced that in 2013, clubs were no longer required to offer categories that have fewer than 5 entries. Clubs have the option to offer the categories with less than five entries but are no longer required to offer them."

 

What am I missing?

If a match has 2 entrants for "Wrangler" they don't have to offer that category. However if they have 10 entrants requesting FCGF or any other "unofficial" category the MD can offer that category. So officially recognized category or not, if there is not enough participants it is up to the MD as to what is offered.

I shoot FCGF but could try "5'10" BP Shooters with Brown Hats and Red Shirts"

:P

MTC

 

MT it is that Red Shirt that will get you into trouble.

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