diablo slim Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 'With the pistol shoot the plate rack till down Dump remaining pistol rounds on red cowboy(Dump Plate)" Ok had one shooter use 8 rounds to get the first 4 of 5 kd plates down...then shoots one on the dump target and goes back and picks up the last pistol KD. Whats the call you guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Z Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 'With the pistol shoot the plate rack till down Dump remaining pistol rounds on red cowboy(Dump Plate)" Ok had one shooter use 8 rounds to get the first 4 of 5 kd plates down...then shoots one on the dump target and goes back and picks up the last pistol KD. Whats the call you guys... P - shot them out of order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 This here is a tricky one.... On the surface, the UNTIL DOWN would seem to make the round on the dump cause a P However, misses on the plate rack assumably do not count, and until everything is down anything that doesn't hit the plate rack is a miss that didn't count. Were I the shooter and I meant to hit the dump before all the plates were down, I would say I deserved a P. I don't know what the shooter was thinking, so unless he fessed up, I can see calling it clean. Now that I talked thru it off the top of my head, I think I'll see if this is covered in Palewolfs chronicles... I'll report back if I find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 If misses on the plate rack don't count, a P only. Otherwise, 4 misses and a P. Dump plate was shot out of order, therefore, the P. Barry Sloe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Procedural Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Can anyone say for certain the ninth hit on the dump plate was not a miss on the plate rack? Misses on plate rack are no calls so shooter was clean. Just like shotgun shooter that misses knock down and hits two pistol targets but finally gets all SG knockdowns down. HE IS ALSO CLEAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 unless the dump target overlapped the kd target, it is a P only. Don't try to tell me shooter missed the KD soooo badly he hit the dump unless it was within inches, no misses, he hit everything he was aiming at! P, and as Phantom would say, ooyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Depends on whether or not he shot the dump intentionally or missed the 5th KD. I had a similar situation and it was called a P, I actually had missed the proper target trying to go too fast and got the next one over and then re-shot that hit target as it was the last one. Spotters called aP, I feel it was a miss. If he shot the dump on purpose, then it was a P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Hello, How do you know he didn't just miss the plate rack when he hit the dump plate from the information given? After all he took 8 to get 4. I'd want to see where the dump plate was located. We have one attached to the front of the tombstone rack. I can see a tombstone miss hitting it. If it is like ours, I'd say clean. If the dump plate is several feet away, then I'd call a P. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I'm lookin at this like Griz. Depending on how the stage was set up and the proximity of the dump plate to the KD's would determine my call of either Clean or 'P'. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I would have to call a P.The targets were hit out of order.Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo slim Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 The dump plate was 3 or 4 feet to the left of the plate rack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The dump plate was 3 or 4 feet to the left of the plate rack Alright then, I say P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckwheat Jack Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Anybody who takes eight to hit four deserves a break when they come back and get #5 with only one rond lrft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I don't think any rounds that don't connect with a knockdown plate should be called anything until ALL plates are down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I'm thinkin' like Grizz & Possum Skinner.. I don't care where the dump target placement was... Clean... Can't say I like it called that way but... Rance Thinkin' i got this beat inta' my head a few years back... Miss Flow Chart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Some of the most confusing "what's the call" threads involve plate racks and dump plates. I remember some threads going on and on. There are ways to write that type of stage that can mitigate the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I will stop in from time to time to see how far this one turns into left field For the record I'm going with P.......key words "until down" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Because the instructions say "Till Down", I'm with the "P" crowd. Perhaps it would be best to state "after all KD's are down, any remaining rounds go on the dump target"...but still...a "P". Oy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I don't think any rounds that don't connect with a knockdown plate should be called anything until ALL plates are down. Ding - Ding - Ding We have a winner. Until the KDs are down - The knockdowns are the only pistol targets in play. The dump plate is a non entity until the rack is complete. A round that misses a KD plate is meaningless, regardless of what it may (or may not) strike on its errant journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clueless Bob Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 So that's what that was about. I for one will stay quite since I got the plates down shooting gunfighter in 6, then missed the dump with my last 4. Even Smoking Limey and I do not agree!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The gamey way is to expend all ten rounds on the plate rack with out hesitating with anything going toward the dump target. Remember, a miss on the plate rack is not a miss so just becons the shooter to be some what careless. A fast shooter can get off three on any of the plate rack (last one if necessary) before it bottoms out,,, if necessary. I say this from watching the best and how the stage was written as in this post. To answer the OP,,,, a P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 As I recall in previous discussions of miss versus procedural in years past, we were told not to try to figure out what the shooter "intended" to hit, even if the targets were widely spaced. Has that changed? In this situation, if we make the judgement that the shooter INTENDED to hit the dump target out of order than he gets a P. But I didn't think we were allowed to do that. So I'm thinking Creeker's analysis is correct. Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Just like Munckins told ya!!!!!!! Follow the miss flow chart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Intent...bull. The dump target was 3-4 feet from the plate rack. If he/she wasn't shooting at the dump target...then they need to be rushed to a hospital cuz it's obvious that they are having some kind of seizure. Lets Us...as a sport...not go out of our way to look too stoopid. OY! Phantom Edit: hate it when the auto correct corrects my intentional mis-spellings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 So the dump target was 3-4 feet to the left of the KDs. BUT how far away was the KD and Dump target from the shooter. I call no P. GD called this one correctly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 So the dump target was 3-4 feet to the left of the KDs. BUT how far away was the KD and Dump target from the shooter. I call no P. GD called this one correctly! Ok...then just go with the stoopid Flow Chart... OY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Intent...bull. The dump target was 3-4 feet from the plate rack. If he/she wasn't shooting at the dump target...then they need to be rushed to a hospital cuz it's obvious that they are having some kind of seizure. Lets Us...as a sport...not go out of our way to look too stooped. OY! Phantom I made this same argument on the Wire a few years ago and got shot down. Where are you PWB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Ok...then just go with the stoopid Flow Chart... OY. Actually, I choose the stage instructions. In this case they appear to trump the miss flow chart. I see no need for "stoopid" to enter this discussion. No one gets em all correct do they Phantom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Actually, I choose the stage instructions. In this case they appear to trump the miss flow chart. I see no need for "stoopid" to enter this discussion. No one gets em all correct do they Phantom? Yes...the stage instructions. Notice the "Till Down" followed by "Remaining"? You cannot have "Remaining" if there are still KDs up. We as a sport do look stoopid if we have issues like this...IMHO. And this isn't a "I'm right - you're wrong" debate. It has zero to do with me or anyone else for that matter...why the dig? Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Yes...the stage instructions. Notice the "Till Down" followed by "Remaining"? You cannot have "Remaining" if there are still KDs up. We as a sport do look stoopid if we have issues like this...IMHO. And this isn't a "I'm right - you're wrong" debate. It has zero to do with me or anyone else for that matter...why the dig? Phantom Please notice that the dump target hit does not really count as it could well have been aimed at the remaining KD. Remember that a miss of a KD is a miss even if it hits something else. But then again UNTIL PWB passes judgement, many are speculating on the outcome. I would NOT have called a P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Ding - Ding - Ding We have a winner. Until the KDs are down - The knockdowns are the only pistol targets in play. The dump plate is a non entity until the rack is complete. A round that misses a KD plate is meaningless, regardless of what it may (or may not) strike on its errant journey. I agree that misses do not count before KDs are down per stage instructions but I do not think the rounds are meaningless . If the round hits a prop , the ground 3 feet in front of you or the wrong target I would think you still get the penalty . As I recall in previous discussions of miss versus procedural in years past, we were told not to try to figure out what the shooter "intended" to hit, even if the targets were widely spaced. Has that changed? In this situation, if we make the judgement that the shooter INTENDED to hit the dump target out of order than he gets a P. But I didn't think we were allowed to do that. So I'm thinking Creeker's analysis is correct. Maybe. I believe we are not trying to guess his INTENT . We are just scoring on what he hit . Like if the pattern was 3 4 3 and was shot 4 3 3 we would call a P and not think that his intent was to shoot it correctly and award a miss . But J Bar you may be right . I dunno . For all that called a P let me apologize for bringing my no wins/many losses to your camp . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo slim Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Plate rack was a front to back kd rack ...you have to knock down the one in front to see the next target... if that helps any Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0ckr0ach, SASS #26100 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 "P" - Just follow the "Hit Flow Chart" - Which is misnamed as "Miss Flow Chart". The Flow Chart asks about "Hits". In this case, the dump target was hit out of sequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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