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Subdeacon Joe

Interesting. I'm thinking someone is gonna lose a badge.

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http://www.cbs8.com/story/24637357/chp-handcuffs-firefighter-in-dispute-at-crash-scene

 

 

"According to officials, the officer told the firefighter to move his truck from the center divide, but the firefighter refused that request and continued giving aid to the crash victims.

CBS News 8 video shows the CHP officer cuffing the firefighter, identified as Jacob Gregoire, 36, at the scene of the accident. In the background, other fire crews and officers can be seen tending to the victims of the rollover accident."

 

 

Never heard the like of it before.


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If the fire truck was not creating a clear hazzard, the cop is an idiot!! Instead of what he was doing, he should have been giving aid to the injured or directing traffic!!

 

Guys like this give the rest of the officers a bad name or a black eye, depending on your point of view.

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I recall a similar incident two or three years ago, when an ambulance was stopped for speeding after passing a patrol car. Heated dispute resulted in the driver being cuffed, while a patient lay in the ambulance suffering from a heart attack or some such. Ring any bells?

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I'd like to know exactly what the firefighter was doing. If he were working with a specific person, it would very much make a difference in my mind. As a medic / EMT it is hammered and hammered into us that once you begin rendering aid, you don't stop unless you are able to pass the casualty / victim off to equal or higher medical personnel. If the person is stabilized sufficiently for you to move on, that is one thing, but even then, you need to monitor that person.

 

If he were moving from victim to victim, then he should've been avle to take a moment to move the engine.

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Seems to me the dispute could have been handled at an administrative/departmental level. Radios and cell phones seem more appropriate than handcuffs.

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There will be no official reprimand, the police union will make sure of that.

 

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There's more to this story it looks like.

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On the news this morning, it indicated the firefighter had parked the truck were he did to provide protection for the medics from passing motor vehicles, evidently because of the road conditions. I'm still inclined to side with him. Deadwood Slim is right on, though.

 

Old Scatterbrain, the ambulance driver does ring a bell. It happened a few years back, but I can't recall the particulars.

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On the news this morning, it indicated the firefighter had parked the truck were he did to provide protection for the medics from passing motor vehicles, evidently because of the road conditions. I'm still inclined to side with him. Deadwood Slim is right on, though.

 

Old Scatterbrain, the ambulance driver does ring a bell. It happened a few years back, but I can't recall the particulars.

 

And two others, when asked to move/leave did so. I think it boils down to a difference of opinion, the CHIP thought the people working on the wreck would be safe, the firefighter thought that without the blocking vehicle they wouldn't be.

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I'm sure there's way more that happened at the accident than what's being reported. It's the nature of situations like this.

 

Of all possible courses of action, the cop could have picked a better one.

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Without knowing ALL the details... at an accident scene the LEO is in charge of the traffic flow and safety...Not the EMT or Firefighter! Saying that..I do think the CHP officer could have handled it without getting the cuffs out. Sometimes WE, whether we are LEO's or EMT's or Firefighters , tend to think we are all important. Not all of us but some. Ive met a few in all 3 departments.

Tascosa

PS I did threaten to take a firefighter to jail if he didnt move his truck. No victims just a car fire at 2 AM saturday morning and very little room to pass his truck in the middle of the road. He decided to move his truck. Im still not sure I really would have taken him to jail or not.. afterall we are on the same team, just doing different jobs

 

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I agree that LEO is in charge of traffic flow. I'm a bit more reluctant to say they are in charge of scene safety in all situations. Fire and EMS have their own duty and responsibility to make sure they maintain as safe an environment as possible, for themselves and the injured.

 

I just looked a little more and ran across this:

 

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Veteran-Firefighter-Cuffing-Fire-Crews-Ridiculous--243940041.html

 

"Over fire communications you here (sic) another firefighter reporting what was happening.

"This is ridiculous. CHP is arresting Engineer Gregoire for where he spotted the fire engine. We're in the middle of patient care with patients on the freeway and we're trying to protect our scene," one of the firefighters said on the scanner."

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It's pretty common for the police to get to an accident scene, get things organized and a lane of traffic moving again, only to have the fire truck arrive and block the only open lane of traffic. They must go to a school on how to part their truck in the worst location. I understand the officer's frustration but locking up the fireman was going too far.

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It's pretty common for the police to get to an accident scene, get things organized and a lane of traffic moving again, only to have the fire truck arrive and block the only open lane of traffic. They must go to a school on how to part their truck in the worst location. I understand the officer's frustration but locking up the fireman was going too far.

 

Firemen are the biggest asset you can have when you need them and the biggest PIA when you don’t. They always mean well but often are just in the way. At one crash scene where there was no fire, six firemen showed up, problem was they brought four, forty foot trucks and effectively shut down an interstate high way causing a mile long back up before I could get them out of the way. But handcuffing was a little extreme

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I agree that LEO is in charge of traffic flow. I'm a bit more reluctant to say they are in charge of scene safety in all situations. Fire and EMS have their own duty and responsibility to make sure they maintain as safe an environment as possible, for themselves and the injured.

 

I just looked a little more and ran across this:

 

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Veteran-Firefighter-Cuffing-Fire-Crews-Ridiculous--243940041.html

 

"Over fire communications you here (sic) another firefighter reporting what was happening.

"This is ridiculous. CHP is arresting Engineer Gregoire for where he spotted the fire engine. We're in the middle of patient care with patients on the freeway and we're trying to protect our scene," one of the firefighters said on the scanner."

You know, if they had time to move 2 trucks, and get on the radio complaining about the LEO, they could have moved the 3rd truck.

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You know, if they had time to move 2 trucks, and get on the radio complaining about the LEO, they could have moved the 3rd truck.

 

It apparently was not a question of having the time, it was a matter of him simply not thinking it appropriate to move it, because it was intended to be in position to protect the firefighters and victims who were on the highway.

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It's pretty common for the police to get to an accident scene, get things organized and a lane of traffic moving again, only to have the fire truck arrive and block the only open lane of traffic. They must go to a school on how to part their truck in the worst location. I understand the officer's frustration but locking up the fireman was going too far.

B.S. Big time. We park the trucks to protect both us and the victims. And for what it's worth, I cannot recall one time having a problem with the Highway or local P,D. on a scene with how trucks were parked. And I believe they would have been professional enough to have waited till the proper time to discuss if there had been a problem.

B.A.

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IMHO the fireman was doing the right thing because injured were still being attended to in traffic lanes. It seems like on a weekly basis there is a report of someone being killed while helping at an accident scene or where a car is broken down. Out here in southern Kal very few drivers slow down when they should around accident scenes so my money's on the firefighter on this one.

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B.S. Big time. We park the trucks to protect both us and the victims. And for what it's worth, I cannot recall one time having a problem with the Highway or local P,D. on a scene with how trucks were parked. And I believe they would have been professional enough to have waited till the proper time to discuss if there had been a problem.

B.A.

 

Having been on the firefighter side of things, I can't believe the engineer would have parked the truck so as to DELIBERATELY block traffic unless it was necessary. Most engineers know and do better.

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Key word Calamity Kris is "most" engineers would know better. Lets face it we do have a few lower IQ firefighters and few lower IQ Leo's. Put the two together in a high stress situation and there is going to be a problem!

We should be very glad that 99.8% of LEO's and Firefighters are intelligent enough to work together when there is a problem.

What we see in that story is the exception rather than the rule.

Tascosa

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Key word Calamity Kris is "most" engineers would know better. Lets face it we do have a few lower IQ firefighters and few lower IQ Leo's. Put the two together in a high stress situation and there is going to be a problem!

We should be very glad that 99.8% of LEO's and Firefighters are intelligent enough to work together when there is a problem.

What we see in that story is the exception rather than the rule.

Tascosa

 

where do you think the public gets there opinion of LEOs and Fireman from Tascosa

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I'm just going to toss this out there as food for thought. I will start by saying that even though I am an EMT thanks to the Army, I have never worked on the civilian side. I've only done maybe a dozen or so ride alongs as training and to help maintain proficiency. I won't include my military medical training, even though it has a bit of relevance, in my opinion. I also have several friends that are firefighters and paramedics, and some more that are law enforcement. I've heard it said by both groups that working along the highway can be among the most dangerous things they do. The reason is that drivers will become distracted and focus on what is going on and veer in that direction. We've all seen plenty of video footage of drivers pulled off alongside the road, and vehicles being slammed into, officers jumping out of the way, and sometimes saving motorists in the process. Given the above, and everything I know about the situation at this point, especially the fact that there were still firefighters / EMS and victims on the road, I still side with the engineer. He was looking out for his crew and the victims first. If that makes me "lower IQ," then so be it.

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The same handful of people on here are quick to post anything anti-law enforcement, but we rarely see both sides of the story. I'd like to hear a detailed explanation from both sides here, why did the CHP officer feel the need to take such drastic action, and why did two of the Firefighters co-workers agree to move their trucks? How about we pursue the whole story as much as we do the anti-LE headline?

 

BSD

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After seeing what a full sized car at speed did to a CalTrans truck, I don't begrudge the firefighters their use of the trucks.

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Firemen are the biggest asset you can have when you need them and the biggest PIA when you don’t. They always mean well but often are just in the way. At one crash scene where there was no fire, six firemen showed up, problem was they brought four, forty foot trucks and effectively shut down an interstate high way causing a mile long back up before I could get them out of the way. But handcuffing was a little extreme

 

Funny - I hear the same thing about cops :P

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Let me start by saying I don't think I would ever put handcuffs on a working firefighter.

 

BUT

 

Have any of you watched the video?? The accident is a roll over that ended up between the concrete barracades. There were numerous emergency vehicles blocking the breakdown lane next to the wall that was between the victim and the first responders, plenty of coverage without the firetruck. The firetruck is the ONLY vehicle that is hanging out into the road and it's just enough to cause a serious accident. If the truck had been parked correctly or moved just slightly it would have provided the SAME amount of safety coverage without endangering any oncoming traiffic. If, like DocWard said, that particular firefighter was activally rendering aid (to the single victim, which it doesn't appear he was in the still pictures) then he is required to stay with the victim, but another firefighter should have moved the truck if not he should have moved the truck as requested. The CHiPs job is to prevent further accidents. Firefighters are notorious (sorry but I completely disagree with you Calamity Kris) to park and block traffic when there is absolutely NO need to. We have had accidents in parking lots and EMS/Fire will block multiple lanes of traffic on the thoroughfare next to it.

 

Not saying what the cop did was right, I wouldn't have made that decision, BUT this is another case of the news promoting that the cop is totally wrong. I think they probably were both wrong in this incident. As always though, I'll wait for more reliable information that what the media spews.

 

JEL

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Funny - I hear the same thing about cops :P

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

100% true statement here!!

 

JEL

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The first thing is, anyone who's been in either of those shoes know's that the media rarely gets a story straight and that their main focus is to create an interesting story. Secondly, the responsibility of safety and traffic flow on the road falls upon the shoulders of CHP, not the Fire Department. Anyone with training knows that funneling 4 lanes of high speed traffic into one lane will cause a collision, and apparently two of the Firefighters agreed with the trooper. Yet another non story that will be spun to create ratings and a plethora of replies on here.

 

LD

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100% true statement here!!

 

JEL

Yep but a cop car isn't 40 feet long and most cops disapear quickly before they are ordered to provide traffic control

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The same handful of people on here are quick to post anything anti-law enforcement, but we rarely see both sides of the story. I'd like to hear a detailed explanation from both sides here, why did the CHP officer feel the need to take such drastic action, and why did two of the Firefighters co-workers agree to move their trucks? How about we pursue the whole story as much as we do the anti-LE headline?

 

BSD

 

I'm just going to say that I don't believe I have ever posted anything that could be construed as "anti-law enforcement" on this, or any other forum, but since I seem to have been the most prolific poster on this thread in support of the firefighter, I kind of take that as a shot across my bow.

 

Other than that, I agree it would be nice to know the whole story, from both sides. Based on the statements of CHP, there will be a full investigation. Not that we will get the opportunity to see the results. Of course, the firefighters, from the chief to the union, are angry and dismayed.

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Let me start by saying I don't think I would ever put handcuffs on a working firefighter.

 

.

 

Not saying what the cop did was right, I wouldn't have made that decision, BUT this is another case of the news promoting that the cop is totally wrong. I think they probably were both wrong in this incident. As always though, I'll wait for more reliable information that what the media spews.

 

JEL

Agree with you 100% on this, it defiantly could have been handled better by both.

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If I want a fire engine moved at an accident scene I ask a line officer ie someone in the FD in authority. Simple. I have no idea why the CHP did not seek out the ranking FD line officer make his request, short discussion, end of story.

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I am a newspaper photographer. Some years ago in the city where I work, there was a fairly large house fire. FD and PD responded. Second alarm called in, engine arrived to find the secondary hydrant blocked by parked PD car. Battalion chief found officer, told him to move car, as hookup couldn't be made with his unit in place. "I'm busy! Go around it" was response. Battalion chief instructed firefighters to open the door of offending cruiser and route the hose directly through front seat. Officer started screaming "You can't.....". Battalion chief's response: "Go do your job, direct traffic!" By the way, the connections to hydrant can leak a LOT of spray. Radio consoles mounted in the front seat of a car do not like water.

See you down the trail......

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I don't think "this is another case of the news promoting that the cop is totally wrong." Nor did I say WHO would lose a badge - could have been the firefighter for arguing with a cop. Could have been either one, or both.


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