Train Robber 13659 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Just in case you are wondering, this was a Christmas scenario. At the beginning of the stage you had to pick a 'gift' bag. If it contained 2 shotshells, you shot only 2 shotgun targets, but after engaging the rifle targets had to do a single rifle reload and engage a rifle target again. If it contained 4 shotshells, you shot 4 shotgun targets, but didn't have to do the rifle reload. I 've copied this from another post . While I enjoy most any scenario that can be thunk up I find this type of stage disturbing due to "chance" being able to pick a winner on the stage . It was best put by a pard. As he put it I am competing against (whomever) and I want to win by my actions not any "chance" . What thinks the Wire? Train Robber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I would like to think that who ever wrote it thought it would take the same amount of time to complete the different task. But that is unlikely for most. That being said every one should have to shoot a stage the same to keep it as fair as possible. I agree that chance should be left out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 So which do you think would be slower? Reloading the rifle or shooting two extra shotgun shells. For me it would be about the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Whenever you design a stage that sets up a situation where some shooters are directed to shoot a different sequence of targets than "the competition" then you will find decent in the ranks. This includes, in my opinion, telling me I have to start on a different target by turning over a card or some other prop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Mudd Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Got to find 4 Aces of Hearts to start our card suit targets. That would be funny twice. Am I right; Ace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Holliday small monthly cas shoots often times wish to mix things up a tad bit I would have enjoyed that stage As stated, the time difference between the two chances seem purity equal State or above cas shoot, I wood not recommend that stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Disturbing? Different? Uncommon? Unique? Rare? I can think of several adjectives to decribe that situation. Disturbing is not one of them. It was a monthly match, not an annual, regional or championship. Monthlies are where stage writers experiment. Some ideas are good and go in the keeper file. Others not so much and you'll never see them again. Still others are used once every couple of years. The OP states it was a Christmas shoot. Maybe there was a theme. Maybe the stage writer did something DIFFERENT or UNCOMMON on every stage. Is this disturbing because someone didn't win the $50,000 added-purse prize? While I wouldn't care so much for this at a Regional match, I sure wouldn't complain at a monthly. Just me. I like variety. I like change. I like not taking myself too seriously. I like to go shoot to relax, not worry about whether someone had an advantage over me. I also find it interesting that many of us post comments about removing chance from the outcome. Think about it. Chance is a major part of every outcome. Mny of our top shooters have quite similar or equitable skill sets. So what separates them? Chance. A bobbled reload. A dud round. A firearm malfunction. A short stroke. There's lots of chance is SASS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Steeldust Dan , I agree that chance is part of the game ie: two flight match and am gets rained on and pm doesn't. No control over that. I also agree that to some (me included ) that monthlys are a place to try different things out. But we should remember that to many shooters monthlys is their whole SASS experience. Writing "chance " into a stage that could make one person shoot it different from another is not the same as fumbling shot gun shells which we all have a "chance" of doing if we are shooting the same stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonmaster ward Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 It's a game for crying out loud!! And it's a Christmas Shoot at the local level. Me thinks that those that would complain would be welcome to write stages for the next match. See how many come forward to do that. Wagonmaster Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Sounds like fun to me, have done similar things at local holiday type shoots and enjoyed them a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Chance matches can certainly be unfair, but they're fun anyway... ... I shot a match in North Dakota a few years back that had a shotgun only stage with five tables and 2 - 4 targets out in front of each table. Each table represented the 10, J, Q, K, and Ace in a card deck. To start, there was a deck of cards made up of only the four 10's, Jacks, Queens, Kings, and Aces which the shooter drew five cards from and the stations were shot in the order the cards were drawn. So, if you drew, say, four Queens then a Jack, you were in pretty good shape, but if you drew 10, A, 10, A, 10... you better be able to run like a jackrabbit from end to end four times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 J Bar, that does sound like a hoot to shoot. Hmm, look out folks, that may show up in a match soon! It isn't something I'd want to do every stage every month. Sounds like a great change of pace. I bet there was a lot of joking, harassing and encouraging going on, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Who cares. It was for a FUN Christmas shoot. Just sit back and have fun with it. Enjoy the day. Laugh about if you get the one that might be a little faster for you. Poke fun at the others that don't. They would not write that for anything else.GEEEZZZZE If you don't want to attend the local fun Christmas shoot. STAY HOME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 J Bar, that does sound like a hoot to shoot. Hmm, look out folks, that may show up in a match soon! It isn't something I'd want to do every stage every month. Sounds like a great change of pace. I bet there was a lot of joking, harassing and encouraging going on, too. It was doubly unfair, in that you could end up with a LOT more movement than someone else as well as several more targets to shoot! And it was definitely a hoot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 For me...it's okay cuz I use the monthlies for practice...fun and relaxation. BUT...other don't shoot nothing but the Monthly...and perhaps it means something more to them...? I wouldn't lose any sleep over it...so long as it's only a once in a while thingie. Cheers!! Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 We shot that this passed sat. and I love it.I got 4 shot shells and wanted 2 shell.Maybe next time I will get just two.AT a club shoot way would anyone care.As long as I get to shoot I don't care.It is all fun.We had one cowboy draw 2 shot shells and he shot 4 and then reloaded a rifle.He got to shoot more than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Hello, Just don't do something that makes the stage different for different shooters based on chance at an annual match. I do think that the writer tried to make the two alternatives somewhat equal. So, good on him/her for trying to do that. Regards, Allie Mo PS I think I could reload my Marlin once quicker than reloading the SG twice. So, I think the attempt at equality was a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Holliday small monthly cas shoots often times wish to mix things up a tad bit I would have enjoyed that stage As stated, the time difference between the two chances seem purity equal State or above cas shoot, I wood not recommend that stage I woujld not like that kind of stage at anything but a monthly match, and never at a multi day match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 someone order a box of cheese to go with this whine..... if this happens and you don't like it, then just look at the scores for the other stages and compare them, leaving that one out! like others said, it's a game, it was a local Christmas shoot.......and Sheesh to anyone who belly ached! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheatin' Chamberlin Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 someone order a box of cheese to go with this whine..... if this happens and you don't like it, then just look at the scores for the other stages and compare them, leaving that one out! like others said, it's a game, it was a local Christmas shoot.......and Sheesh to anyone who belly ached! I agree CC. I have writen a ton of stages for our local match. I have written some chance stages for special events like Halloween and Christmas. I had the same thing happen to me the shooter pulled me to the side and expressed his dislike of chance. So I asked him if he would like to write the stages for the next couple of matches, he declined. There is alot of things to think about when writing stages! It's all about FUN, it is a GAME. I think at the local level there is nothing wrong with a little chance or mixing it up. 10-10-4 gets a little stale so SHAKE IT UP. Cheatin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I take full credit and/or blame for that stage. We, down here, still know how to enjoy CAS. And it ain't ALL about winning. Hellfire, I'm as competitive as anybody, but I still want to have fun. And believe me, I will. Of course, I'd never write a stage like this for an annual, but you know what? Everyone enjoyed this stage and the match. This was a LOCAL, MONTHLY match, that also was a special Christmas shoot. It was NOT the World Championship for Pete's sake. Those of you who think every scenario needs to be even, every target needs to be the same shape and same color scheme, don't care about fun start lines, don't want to do anything other than draw and fire, 10-10-4 every stage, etc., well, you're certainly entitled to state your opinion, but you'll never have the fun we have. In my opinion, some of y'all take yourselves WAY too seriously and that's all I'll say about that. Possum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Such items should be saved for "special" matches. By that I mean that you can set up a match and announce it before hand as a special "fun match." Let folk know in advance that you will be trying different stuff and some depending on luck. Include crazy (but safe) stuff as you like and as your shooters like. Then the shooters can plan in advance and prepare mentally as needed. I enjoy some of the crazy stuff, but I never enjoy luck stuff much as I am one of the most unlucky people on earth. UNLESS it is so crazy as to be pure silliness. Then we can all laugh at each other!! (As one fella says - remember - we're not laughing with you ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Some cowpokes have to win to have fun and others have to have fun to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasty Newt # 7365 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Just in case you are wondering, this was a Christmas scenario. At the beginning of the stage you had to pick a 'gift' bag. If it contained 2 shotshells, you shot only 2 shotgun targets, but after engaging the rifle targets had to do a single rifle reload and engage a rifle target again. If it contained 4 shotshells, you shot 4 shotgun targets, but didn't have to do the rifle reload. I 've copied this from another post . While I enjoy most any scenario that can be thunk up I find this type of stage disturbing due to "chance" being able to pick a winner on the stage . It was best put by a pard. As he put it I am competing against (whomever) and I want to win by my actions not any "chance" . What thinks the Wire? Train Robber I'm so disturbed I'm using it next Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Such items should be saved for "special" matches. By that I mean that you can set up a match and announce it before hand as a special "fun match." I attended a "shoot whatcha brung" match Saturday, which is a popular format in the off-season around here. There were .22's, double action revolvers, non-1911 pistols, etc. I shot a .45acp semi-auto Thompson for a rifle myself, along with a Remington M1900 16 ga SxS shotgun w/ejectors and .45 Vaqueros with heavy BP loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 NO Chese for possum!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckaroo #13080 Regulator Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 SASS guidelines state that stages should not be written where "chance" can alter the stage to the point that one shooter shoots different targets or an easier method. All shooters should have an equal chance in a stage and should shoot the same sequences and targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Hi again, You guyz have no idea what "different" is until you've shot She Bang at 5 Dogs Creek. OMG! One stage was even written by a non-shooter. No offence meant. I had a great time. It was just not what one would do at an annual "competition." It was an unforgettably fun experience. It was the epitome of the unusual. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Well said Possum. Sometimes a need a fun, let your hair down good time match. Sounds like that is what you had. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosscut hardy Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Like Possum said ..... we at both local clubs we shoot at in Lake Charles la. and Orange Tx have a lot of fun with these stages that requires luck of the draw .... like Anvil Al says. It gives us a chance to rib our buddies anyway. AND we do this about twice a year anyway. Possum is a tireless worker with stage writing and such so most all of us appreciate this and at our local matches are just happy to shoot whatever . ....crosscut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Graham, # 26112 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The success or failure of a stage like this lies in knowing the "personality" of your club. My home club will love this and it's going in the North Pole Posse match next year. A team stage or having a single shot rifle in a couple of stages - it's hard to come up with things that are going to entertain month after month for year after year. Anything that's safe is good. Chance stages always provide a ton of entertainment and sometimes a bottom of the pack shooter gets a moment of glory. Our top guns know who can out shoot who and are always gracious and laugh as much as anyone. An occasional goofy stage at a monthly is not going to ruin anybody's life and for one stage, the bottom of the pack shooters have a "l'm in the hunt" experience. They pay match fees and haul targets, too. I write for everyone, not just the top guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal Capps Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 ITS A FUN SHOOT, gald darnit. Next time buy some crying towels and hand them out to those who need it. I get tired of "its 10, 10, & 4" the same as you shot last month, the month before that, the year before that etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen judice Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I have a stage where chance can come into play and it is favorite at our club. It is called the Fortuneteller, 4 cards, 2 say pistol 1 says rifles and the last says shotgun. The shooter turns over a card, shoots that gun and does this for all the cards. The chance comes in as the shotgun is shot outside the building, if that car comes up before the rest the shooter has to go out side and come back. Now some of the faster shooters didn't care for this so we changed it up a bit. If you want to know the order of the guns leave the cards face up and shoot them in the order you want. If you want the cards shuffled and face down you get a 5 second bonus, it kinda balances out. The folks that shoot at the Troublemakers like this scenario so much they wanted me to write an entire match with it, I said no to hard for six stages. We have also done this stage as a stand and deliver.with out the bonus. We use this stage about every 6 to 9 month's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Buffalo Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I'm so disturbed I'm using it next Christmas. I'm going to hold you to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The worst I have seen was at a club annual match with 4 targets, one of each card suit. Shooter then told to shoot a continuous Nevada sweep with his pistols starting on the suit /target on the card he randomly drew from the deck at the start of the stage. Rifle target instructions were the same but suit targets were in a different order. Set a club record for number of Ps in a stage. Match director was not hanged but saved himself by throwing out the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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