Maybe a Change of Direction?

[Most Wanted]

I am one of the few that shoot WBAS only. I shoot the Wild Bunch match and go home. Never had a desire to play cowboy. After reading this topic, I don't think that I would want to shoot very many of you. The Judge was correct, the wire ought to be shut down. There is nothing here of redeeming value.

 

With a # as high as yours and a 191 post what's taking you so long to find the door . Don't let it hit ya on the way out.

[Church Key, SASS # 33713]

I shoot WB at the Thurmont Club in MD. They have been doing it for a couple of years. Their first three matches in 2013 allowed .38 rifles in an outlaw category. No one at all showed with .38's. Now it's only big bore rifles. They usually have about 15 shooters. In my opinion, the .38 argument is weak. You need to get equipment within the rules.

 

As someone mentioned earlier, a similar argument can be made for CAS Classic Cowboy. I want to try it, but I don't have a hammered double, 40+ rifle and 40+ pistols. Why can't I use my .38's and Stoger; duh?

[Grizzly Adams 3674]

I am one of the few that shoot WBAS only. I shoot the Wild Bunch match and go home. Never had a desire to play cowboy. After reading this topic, I don't think that I would want to shoot very many of you. The Judge was correct, the wire ought to be shut down. There is nothing here of redeeming value.

 

 

With a # as high as yours and a 191 post what's taking you so long to find the door . Don't let it hit ya on the way out.

 

MW, "with a number as high as yours" and only 278 posts, I don't see where you have have room to tell anyone to "find the door." Lorimer is a gentleman, and a talented WB competitor. In addition, he is not the only WB competitor that I have met who does not shoot CAS, but has been attracted to SASS by WBAS.

 

In addition, his observations, and The Judge's, regarding the WIRE would seem to have some merit!

 

GA SASS #3674

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

I thoroughly enjoy both games.

 

Done right, they are different and the same at the same time.

 

Ever since I started shooting in SASS, I have found that it is the people shooting, in either game that keep me coming back.

 

While I may not agree with every person, every time, I don't sweat the small stuff.

 

Where I shoot, we have a category for anyone who wants to shoot outside the normal categories. I don't see an issue with it.

 

More people shooting having a blast.

 

Isn't that what it is about?

 

WBAS is moving away from overall scoring anyway. Why does it matter if you have folks in another category at your monthlies shooting whatever caliber in their rifle? Or even 9mm in the pistol?

 

And which of you match directors have so much money in your war chests that you are going to turn down the revenue just because the guy wants to shoot in a separate category with his 38?

[Madd Mike #8595]

I thoroughly enjoy both games.

 

Done right, they are different and the same at the same time.

 

Ever since I started shooting in SASS, I have found that it is the people shooting, in either game that keep me coming back.

 

 

And which of you match directors have so much money in your war chests that you are going to turn down the revenue just because the guy wants to shoot in a separate category with his 38?

some will

that is the point

state and above ya cant shoot less than the current rules

 

if you want to shoot wild bunch monthly shoots, do it

if you want to shoot wild bunch state and above do it, with in the rules, make friends and have fun

 

geeese

 

I do not understand the problem

EOT WB is doing well

folks at home can use what ever (to some degree)

 

it sounds like the best of both worlds to some

 

the wild bunch shooting rules guys, took lessons HARD learned from CAS

they had a desire to keep things much simpler on purpose

 

right-wrong-indifferent,

many of us agree with them after attending meetings / convention classes, with several of them

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

I am one of the few that shoot WBAS only. I shoot the Wild Bunch match and go home. Never had a desire to play cowboy. After reading this topic, I don't think that I would want to shoot very many of you. The Judge was correct, the wire ought to be shut down. There is nothing here of redeeming value.

It's Friday for sure..........

LG

[Most Wanted]

MW, "with a number as high as yours" and only 278 posts, I don't see where you have have room to tell anyone to "find the door." Lorimer is a gentleman, and a talented WB competitor. In addition, he is not the only WB competitor that I have met who does not shoot CAS, but has been attracted to SASS by WBAS.

 

In addition, his observations, and The Judge's, regarding the WIRE would seem to have some merit!

 

GA SASS #3674

 

 

He is the one that feels the wire has no "redeeming value" and "ought to be shut down" so I thought he must be looking for the door . I was merely pointing out there's nothing keeping him here . Why use a forum simply to bash it . So yea , he can hit the bricks and feel welcome to join him before you also want to shut something down because not all opinions may not agree with yours .

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

We understand the rules and I borrow a 45 rifle for annual WB matches, but the powers that be don't have a say at our local clubs anyway.

 

I think one thing hurting WBAS is the small/far mentality. I don't want the targets at 3 yards, but I'd much rather see 5-10 yards pistol than 7-30 yard with small knockdowns.

 

We use our 5-7 yd pistol targets and also our 10-15 yd rifle targets. We always have a great time.

 

And yes, if somebody wants to see if they'd enjoy WB and all they have is an 870, we'll let 'em use it for a match or 2.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

We even let a lady, who had just had shoulder surgery, shot our CAS monthly with nothing but a Mark 2 for a couple months. (gasp!)

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

I am one of the few that shoot WBAS only. I shoot the Wild Bunch match and go home. Never had a desire to play cowboy. After reading this topic, I don't think that I would want to shoot very many of you. The Judge was correct, the wire ought to be shut down. There is nothing here of redeeming value.

No need to take a dissenting thread as a basis of having the whole barrel thrown away. There are many threads that show support, share good info, provide good conversation, highlight upcoming events that support SASS and its participants on the Wire. Folks can have an opinion and have 'lively' debate....it's all good.

 

But hey... that's another topic I guess.

 

GG

[Madd Mike #8595]

We even let a lady, who had just had shoulder surgery, shot our CAS monthly with nothing but a Mark 2 for a couple months. (gasp!)

NO GASP needed

clubs can make all of the allowances they desire

 

folks / shooters:::: at state and above shoots, just want a base line

 

no big deal auh-tall

[Bad Hand]

I am one of the few that shoot WBAS only. I shoot the Wild Bunch match and go home. Never had a desire to play cowboy. After reading this topic, I don't think that I would want to shoot very many of you. The Judge was correct, the wire ought to be shut down. There is nothing here of redeeming value.

Just curious, do you have to be a SASS member to shoot WBAS?

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Just curious, do you have to be a SASS member to shoot WBAS?

No

[Madd Mike #8595]

Just curious, do you have to be a SASS member to shoot WB?

at state or above level

yes

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

There must be some interest out there WB sells out at WR every year near as I can remember

[John E. Law]

I shoot WB at the Thurmont Club in MD. They have been doing it for a couple of years. Their first three matches in 2013 allowed .38 rifles in an outlaw category. No one at all showed with .38's. Now it's only big bore rifles. They usually have about 15 shooters. In my opinion, the .38 argument is weak. You need to get equipment within the rules.

 

As someone mentioned earlier, a similar argument can be made for CAS Classic Cowboy. I want to try it, but I don't have a hammered double, 40+ rifle and 40+ pistols. Why can't I use my .38's and Stoger; duh?

I've shot the WB at Thurmont, a long time ago. There WB getting 15 shooters is a high number compared to our local WB (statewide) matches. They're lucky if they can get the bare minimum needed to fill 1 posse.

 

The weak argument is the "purest" on here who have continuously claimed as you have, "they have allowed .38 rifles in an outlaw category. No one at all showed with .38's."

 

Guess what? With the attitudes that the very few WB shooters the WBAS has left most .38 shooters have no desire to EVER go back or even start.

 

I know for me it initially it was having to invest in 4 new rifles (the whole family shoots) for an occasional match Or NEVER being able to shoot at the state level or above. Then with the help of P.C. and the rest of the WBAS rule purest and their closed minded attitudes towards the stupid caliber (it should be any SASS caliber that can make the 150PF) rule I, no matter what rules they may change, will never shoot WB again and I loved shooting it. You can only piss on your customers or potential customers for so long.

 

So go ahead and reply that you won't dumb down your rules for me, I'm fine with that. I'll just sit back and watch, a little melancholy, as WB fades into the sunset.

 

JEL

[Litl Red]

Lorimer, on 03 Jan 2014 - 18:39, said:

I am one of the few that shoot WBAS only. I shoot the Wild Bunch match and go home. Never had a desire to play cowboy. After reading this topic, I don't think that I would want to shoot very many of you. The Judge was correct, the wire ought to be shut down. There is nothing here of redeeming value.

 

With a # as high as yours and a 191 post what's taking you so long to find the door . Don't let it hit ya on the way out.

 

It appears you provided a perfect example of his point. You don't like his opinion so shift the focus by providing your opinion of him and nothing else in your post. SOP around here.

[Red Rider Rudy]

My home club shoots WB monthly. We get 10-20 tops, i think we will get more now that they can use 38s!

 

 

Most the time 10-14?

[Most Wanted]

Lorimer, on 03 Jan 2014 - 18:39, said:

 

 

It appears you provided a perfect example of his point. You don't like his opinion so shift the focus by providing your opinion of him and nothing else in your post. SOP around here.

He offered NO opinion of the op. He slammed the people that did and the forum. I offered no opinion of him personally. I am commenting on the fact that rather than just stay off a forum he doesn't care for he thinks it should be shut down. Also HE is the one that wouldn't want to shoot with very many of us. I've had a few disagreements on this forum but would still like to meet and shoot with those people. If we didn't look at things differently from time to time it would get pretty boring.

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

I enjoy the give and take on The Wire. Agreeing with every point of view is neither necessary nor is it healthy. Our medical "crisis" is an example of something without disagreements being considered. None of us, with the possible exception of a Grand Patron like me, has all of the answers! :-)

 

As a pretty much older Holy Black warthog, I have a much different motivation for shooting. The fire, smoke and bang of my heavily loaded firearms provides me with an almost indescribable joy that is indescriably pleasurable. Many of my pards like speed and shoot smokeless in their .32s & .38s. Thaey enjoy that and I would be bored out of my skull doing that. They, on the other hand, think I am crazy to shoot the way I do.

 

Even my local club that is filled with NRA bullseye shooters has accomodated the "others". We now have larger and closer targets which the majority enjoy. We also have our far and tiny ones for bonuses.

 

Wild Bunch in traditional and modern should remain the same but we could add a pink rainbow category for the more feminine shooters!!! :-)

[Jack Strong]

What is the point of arguing about calibers and power factors when most of the targets are close enough to hit with spit?

[Madd Mike #8595]

What is the point of arguing about calibers and power factors when most of the targets are close enough to hit with spit?

Wild bunch stage design

 

 

Actually encourages targets, and stage design of a more challenging aspect that what is common place in cas these days

 

Knock down targets, different shape targets, different distance and different heights of said targets are used for a reason

 

 

Let us understand the differences and embrace them

 

 

Wild bunch was purposely designed differently than cowboy action shooting

Shoot em both, or make a choice and just shoot one, there aint no shame in that ideal

 

Expecting change,,,,, might be a Debbie downer for some in the long run, it aint gunna change

 

Oh ya

 

Happy New Year 2014 to u-awll

 

 

 

 

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Some folks can spit pretty far.

[Griff]

Hmmm... when I started shooting skeet I didn't have an apprpriate gun, now my 870 has a skeet barrel;

When I started CAS, I didn't own a pistol calber lever gun, now I have 6;

When I went to my 1st EOT, I didn't have a breech loading single-shot, pocket pistol or a derringer, now I have at least one of each;

When SASS went to 2 sixguns, I didn't have a matching pair, now I have 5 pairs

When Plainsman & CC started, I didn't have a hammered double, now I have 2;

When WB started, I didn't have a '97 or a 5" 1911 (xcept for 2 safe queens), now I have a '97 clone and waitin' on an original to buy, plus 3 legal 1911s;

When my son asked to go to a 3-Gun match, I didn't own an AR, now I have 2 and that 870 wears an extended magazine;

 

So yeah, I'm gun poor, but along the way, I discovered BPCRS, Cowboy Silhouette, 5-stand, Sporting Clays, Speed Plates, among a host of other shooting sports that I can shoot with a variety of guns that do double, even triple duty.

 

Hog huntin' with a .45 Colt 1892 clone is just as effective as with a 7mmRemMag, even if I do have to get a little closer... coyote huntin' is just the opposite, I can bang 'em farther with that scoped AR that I can with my .30-30 mdl 94 with irons...

 

Limiting yourself to one caliber are one gun... well... is just limiting yourself. Open up a little. This is meant to be fun. If you have 3 or 4 family members all shooting the same model & caliber of gun... SHARE! Trade one of 'em off for a .40+. Hey! That starts with the awesome .38WCF... the 10mm of the 19th Century. You'd be surprised at what that puppy can pull off!

 

Frankly, if all you like is cowboy action... you really don't like to SHOOT! Just play dress-up and play with pop guns.

[Anvil Al #59168]

Some of these posts crack me up.

[Griff]

Some of these posts crack me up.

As some of them were intended to...

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Some of these posts crack me up.

I try to contribute to the fun...

 

GG

[Jack Strong]

"Playing dress up w popguns"..........what a concept!! Perhaps SASS could start a popgun class but how on earth would they police the power factor????

[Anvil Al #59168]

I am talking about Mud's and Strong Jack's.

[Sagerider]

Just made it back from Cowtown's (AZ) monthly WB match. Probably 15+ shooters which maybe approximately 20% of the bi-monthly match participants. Attitudes and chatter exactly as I find at the CAS match. No one seemed concerned with shooting challenging distances to rifle targets with their 1911. Lots of helpful suggestions for a new WB guy like me. I know many still are working but most seem into their mid and beyond years. Did not notice a rifle, shotgun or 1911 which was a substitute for the specified equipment. The major weapon for the match was the 1911 with stages ranging from 20 to 30 rounds each. Except for schedule conflicts and colds, I have no doubt everyone will be back for next months match. I also have no doubt that our economy and priorities for family finances are making Wild Bunch a challenge for many potential shooters who already enjoy CAS. And, some may just not give a darn. But for those of us at Cowtown today, it is a real hoot which I seriously doubt is going away. IMHO, I would recommend doing away with the concerns about WB's specific caliber and weapons requirements and have a quiet conversation with your local match directors for possible accommodations. Good shooting. Sagerider

[Grizzly Adams 3674]

Hmmm... when I started shooting skeet I didn't have an apprpriate gun, now my 870 has a skeet barrel;

When I started CAS, I didn't own a pistol calber lever gun, now I have 6;

When I went to my 1st EOT, I didn't have a breech loading single-shot, pocket pistol or a derringer, now I have at least one of each;

When SASS went to 2 sixguns, I didn't have a matching pair, now I have 5 pairs

When Plainsman & CC started, I didn't have a hammered double, now I have 2;

When WB started, I didn't have a '97 or a 5" 1911 (xcept for 2 safe queens), now I have a '97 clone and waitin' on an original to buy, plus 3 legal 1911s;

When my son asked to go to a 3-Gun match, I didn't own an AR, now I have 2 and that 870 wears an extended magazine;

 

So yeah, I'm gun poor, but along the way, I discovered BPCRS, Cowboy Silhouette, 5-stand, Sporting Clays, Speed Plates, among a host of other shooting sports that I can shoot with a variety of guns that do double, even triple duty.

 

Hog huntin' with a .45 Colt 1892 clone is just as effective as with a 7mmRemMag, even if I do have to get a little closer... coyote huntin' is just the opposite, I can bang 'em farther with that scoped AR that I can with my .30-30 mdl 94 with irons...

 

Limiting yourself to one caliber are one gun... well... is just limiting yourself. Open up a little. This is meant to be fun. If you have 3 or 4 family members all shooting the same model & caliber of gun... SHARE! Trade one of 'em off for a .40+. Hey! That starts with the awesome .38WCF... the 10mm of the 19th Century. You'd be surprised at what that puppy can pull off!

 

Frankly, if all you like is cowboy action... you really don't like to SHOOT! Just play dress-up and play with pop guns.

 

Best response I have seen!! Gotta love it.....

 

In reading back over this thread, the bottom line it that the distractors don't like WBAS because it has a PF and the targets are not within 5 yards! In short, they want to make WB the same game as CAS! Now, don't misunderstand, I love CAS and play with 38s, but WB is not CAS with a 1911! And.......it is not the game for everyone. I have shot few, if any WB matches that had ANY clean shooters! I had 19 misses at Winter Range, (don't recall how many at EOT. ) and enjoyed myself more than I did in the CAS match . If you don't like the rules........don't play. My hat is off to Happy Jack, PC, and TJM who stepped up, defined a game, and stand by their decisions - unlike some of those who have posted on this thread, and have NEVER done a dang thing to make the sport better for others.

 

RANT OFF!

[Bad Hand]

Best response I have seen!! Gotta love it.....

 

In reading back over this thread, the bottom line it that the distractors don't like WBAS because it has a PF and the targets are not within 5 yards! In short, they want to make WB the same game as CAS! Now, don't misunderstand, I love CAS and play with 38s, but WB is not CAS with a 1911! And.......it is not the game for everyone. I have shot few, if any WB matches that had ANY clean shooters! I had 19 misses at Winter Range, (don't recall how many at EOT. ) and enjoyed myself more than I did in the CAS match . If you don't like the rules........don't play. My hat is off to Happy Jack, PC, and TJM who stepped up, defined a game, and stand by their decisions - unlike some of those who have posted on this thread, and have NEVER done a dang thing to make the sport better for others.

 

RANT OFF!

If it isn't "CAS with a 1911" why do you have to be a SASS member to shoot it?

[John E. Law]

 

Best response I have seen!! Gotta love it.....

 

In reading back over this thread, the bottom line it that the distractors don't like WBAS because it has a PF and the targets are not within 5 yards! In short, they want to make WB the same game as CAS! Now, don't misunderstand, I love CAS and play with 38s, but WB is not CAS with a 1911! And.......it is not the game for everyone. I have shot few, if any WB matches that had ANY clean shooters! I had 19 misses at Winter Range, (don't recall how many at EOT. ) and enjoyed myself more than I did in the CAS match . If you don't like the rules........don't play. My hat is off to Happy Jack, PC, and TJM who stepped up, defined a game, and stand by their decisions - unlike some of those who have posted on this thread, and have NEVER done a dang thing to make the sport better for others.

 

RANT OFF!

Where the he!! Did you get that? I have not seen any post wanting target placement moved or dropping the power factor!! My god you guys with your WB is not CAS crap is making me sick. No one has said it was. Get over yourself. HJ, PC, and TJM made rules to suit themselves and lost a TON of shooters. This thread along with WB just needs to die and go by the way side.

 

JEL

[Grizzly Adams 3674]

If it isn't "CAS with a 1911" why do you have to be a SASS member to shoot it?

 

CAS and WBAS are two separate games within SASS. You must be a SASS member to shoot either game at the State, or higher levels only.

 

Where the he!! Did you get that? I have not seen any post wanting target placement moved or dropping the power factor!! My god you guys with your WB is not CAS crap is making me sick. No one has said it was. Get over yourself. HJ, PC, and TJM made rules to suit themselves and lost a TON of shooters. This thread along with WB just needs to die and go by the way side.

 

JEL

 

Bull feathers!

[Bad Hand]

CAS and WBA

 

 

Bull feathers!

Is that supposed to be an answer?