Maybe a Change of Direction?

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Scanned the Jan 2014 Cowboy Chronicle and I could not find an editorial mention of Jeans anywhere. Only thing related is that the editorial article on the Convention reports on the TG meeting and WB committee meeting and says for CAS, dress code is just fine and for WB costumes rules are adequate. Hopefully now the CC will focus on some of the more important important issues in our sport such as maintaining or increasing membership, Also of note is now clubs can use 38 caliber rifles for WB up to and including yearly matches to increase participation, but not state championships and above.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Hadn't heard that WB change. Thanks for the info.

[Goody, SASS #26190]

Interesting. How many 180gr+ bullets are available for 38-357? Or do "They" suggest we relax that as well?

 

I can say from experience that we have been offering an Open Category since the inception of the Official rules some two years ago. We allow any SASS Legal rifle in any SASS legal caliber and any caliber 1911 and any pump shotgun. This category is scored totally seperate from the official catagories, as it should be. I think we might have had 3 people take advantage of this in that time, none have continued to shoot WB with us.

 

I am not opposed to encouraging new participants. I am strongly opposed to WB going down the path that SASS has in the past 10 years. A category for every age group, gender and shooting style till you have dilluted the competition to the point that a first place win is pretty much a joke, unless it is first overall.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

Not fair. I won't get ours for another three weeks yet.

[Tyrel Cody]

Branch you can get the pdf version any time you want it.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Interesting. How many 180gr+ bullets are available for 38-357? Or do "They" suggest we relax that as well?

 

I can say from experience that we have been offering an Open Category since the inception of the Official rules some two years ago. We allow any SASS Legal rifle in any SASS legal caliber and any caliber 1911 and any pump shotgun. This category is scored totally seperate from the official catagories, as it should be. I think we might have had 3 people take advantage of this in that time, none have continued to shoot WB with us.

 

I am not opposed to encouraging new participants. I am strongly opposed to WB going down the path that SASS has in the past 10 years. A category for every age group, gender and shooting style till you have dilluted the competition to the point that a first place win is pretty much a joke, unless it is first overall.

It would appear that match directors are given the opportunity to use 38 caliber rifles however they choose. A lot of clubs have already done this in the past. It is not hard for 38 caliber guns to meet the 150 power factor. No mention of the 180 g bullet need was discussed in the CC editorial.

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

I believe that .38s have absolutely NO BUSINESS in Wild Bunch. We all purchased the correct fiirearms and should not downgrade the match to buckarettes calibers. What's next, .32s?

 

I never saw a single action under .40 until I was a teenager. :-) No one I knew at home shot such a thing except rifle ones such as a .38-55 or .35 Remington.

 

Let's not ruin the category like we did allowing substitutes in BP!

 

So endeth the lesson! :-)

 

STRONG OPINION TO FOLLOW! :-)

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

We have had Open category in WB for a while now. No one ever takes advantage of it. Except for a few of us die hards WB is a lost cause around these parts.

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

Why is it a lost cause in your area?

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

No new WB shooters ever show up to shoot. Just a few of us die hards.

 

Most folks who shoot cowboy also have a 1911 but they do not want to go to the effort to gear up and campaign WB.

 

They'd druther just continue to shoot CAS only.

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

I am a NRA Bullseye competitor and use my CMP pistol for Wild Bunch. I guess that a lot of pards and pardettes just shoot one discipline. I like to shoot all of the time. I have a cup of coffee and, then, open my back door and send my first rounds of the day at my back yard targets. Unfortunately, most people can only do that if they are in inner city Chicago! :-)

 

After breakfast, I shoot some more. Then, I go about 100 yards away to my Western town facades and keep on shooting.

 

I just love retirement in Idaho!!!!!! :-)

[Happy Jack, SASS #20451]

We will NOT be changing the Wild Bunch rules to allow 38/357 rifles. The 180 grain bullet requirement will be maintained. The only change we are going to allow is the "straightened trigger" issue from CAS. We aren't going for the "accidentally closed lever" fiasco that the TG's just voted in for CAS.

H.J. SASS Wild Bunch Committee Chairman

 

 

 

 

As always local clubs do not have to follow Official WBAS rules for club monthly and annual shoots as they are not officially sanctioned events.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

We will NOT be changing the Wild Bunch rules to allow 38/357 rifles. The 180 grain bullet requirement will be maintained. The only change we are going to allow is the "straightened trigger" issue from CAS. We aren't going for the "accidentally closed lever" fiasco that the TG's just voted in for CAS.

H.J. SASS Wild Bunch Committee Chairman

 

 

 

 

As always local clubs do not have to follow Official SASS rules for monthly shoots.

Your statement about 38/357 seems in conflict to what Tex had to say in the Jan 2014 Chronicle (reporting on the WB Committee meeting at the Convention) about allowing 38s in LOCAL AND CLUB ANNUAL MATCHES. I quote from the CC:

 

".38 Caliber Rifles—Clubs may accommodate

.38 caliber rifles in

their monthly and annual

matches if they choose to do so (to

encourage participation in this

new discipline). It is highly recommended

the 150 power factor be

enforced. However, for all SASS

Sanctioned Wild Bunch Matches

(State Championships and above),

100% compliance with the Handbook

is required (.40+ caliber rifles

and the 150 power factor)."

 

Did the WB Committee not approve such deviations for local and club annual matches as Tex describes?

[Happy Jack, SASS #20451]

I wasn't there. Evil and Bubba attended. If TEX has the official notes from the meeting then that is what happened. We have no control over non-sanctioned matches. Club annuals are not sanctiond so I guess I left that off my earlier reply. I will edit it for accuracy.

[Anvil Al #59168]

Don't know why Tex would need to print that.

 

Clubs could have, and have been doing it all along.

 

Never did need SASS permission for matches under State level.

 

SO. Really noting has changed at all.

 

Carry on. Noting to see here.

[Guest Jess Money]

Happy 8oth tomorrow, Mud Marine. Thank you for your service!

[Krazy Kajun]

I believe that .38s have absolutely NO BUSINESS in Wild Bunch. We all purchased the correct fiirearms and should not downgrade the match to buckarettes calibers. What's next, .32s?

 

I never saw a single action under .40 until I was a teenager. :-) No one I knew at home shot such a thing except rifle ones such as a .38-55 or .35 Remington.

 

Let's not ruin the category like we did allowing substitutes in BP!

 

So endeth the lesson! :-)

 

STRONG OPINION TO FOLLOW! :-)

I guess the BP category is now prostituted since those old pesky BP substitutes are allowed...man that grinds my a$$ to the bone on a daily basis.

 

No way we are going to allow anyone except REAL MEN AND WOMEN WHO CAN AFFORD THE BIG IRON to EVER participate in ANY Wild Bunch competition....even at the monthly level. Now that will increase the number of shooters in the WB matches won't it.

 

Why back in my young days back in the early 50s I didn't see anyone ever shoot any single action in anything less than the old big iron 45LC.

 

Doesn't every sentence above in my post seem opinionated, selfish and puts out an "I don't give a sh*t what anyone else thinks...it's got to by MY way. Some lesson.

.

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

Krazy Kajun lives East of the Mississippi.

 

:-)

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Some folks have over inflated opinion of their manhood.

 

Cheers!

[Krazy Kajun]

Krazy Kajun lives East of the Mississippi.

 

:-)

Yep...I do now...had to move from TX to GA for work. I am, however, proud to be from South Louisiana. Now if you ask the folks I shoot with they'll tell you that me being a Kajun explains a lot :D

[Assassin]

I believe the WB rule makers have already drawn a line in the sand. I chose not to participate because I did not like the rules and I'm not investing in another rifle. Sold my 1911, still have several 97's. Even if the rifle caliber restrictions were changed I don't know anyone that would be interested. One of the local clubs puts on a WB match and they have little participation. Plus, having to show up a couple days early for WR and EOT is difficult for those of us that are still working. Not trash talking WB just sharing my observations.

 

Assassin

[Rio Brazos Kid]

Krazy Kajun lives East of the Mississippi.

 

:-)

 

Yeah, but I agree with him, and live West of the Mississippi.

 

However, I share your Birthday. I also will be 80 tomorrow 1/2/14.

[Rio Brazos Kid]

I also thought I would like to shoot WB, so It happened that I had a 1911 style pistol. Bought a rig for WB, bought a 45 cal rifle and a 97 Chinchester.

Thought I was set just fine, only to find that my Kimber 1911 was illegal, because it only had a 4 inch barrel, instead of a 5 inch.

 

Here I have an excellent 1911 pistol, $1000 investment, illegal because of a barrel 1 inch too short.

 

Needless to say, I have abandoned WB shooting. Unfriendly rules, that make no sense. IMHO it's dying anyway. Hardly anyone ever shoots it anymore, and then almost always at a CAS match, not a true WB match.

 

RBK

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

I also thought I would like to shoot WB, so It happened that I had a 1911 style pistol. Bought a rig for WB, bought a 45 cal rifle and a 97 Chinchester.

Thought I was set just fine, only to find that my Kimber 1911 was illegal, because it only had a 4 inch barrel, instead of a 5 inch.

 

Here I have an excellent 1911 pistol, $1000 investment, illegal because of a barrel 1 inch too short.

 

Needless to say, I have abandoned WB shooting. Unfriendly rules, that make no sense. IMHO it's dying anyway. Hardly anyone ever shoots it anymore, and then almost always at a CAS match, not a true WB match.

 

RBK

Your story has been repeated many many times. For me it was the 45 caliber rifle, after owing many 38/357 rifles, be damned if I was going to buy another caliber and different reloading set up just for Wild bunch. I had a legal pistol and several 97s along with new leather. Gave my leather and some 97s to my son.

[Goody, SASS #26190]

And you know what? I would rather see you malcontents not shoot, simply because they won't kiss your butt than to see the rules diluted to the point that everyone gets a participation badge. You're right that WB is not for everybody, it's not supposed to be. What difference does it make what your pistol cost? Sell it and get two Rock Islands if you want to shoot WB. If you simply want the game to comform to what you have, stay home. I won't miss you.

[Chisler Wood]

Dying on the vine. Imagine that.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

And you know what? I would rather see you malcontents not shoot, simply because they won't kiss your butt than to see the rules diluted to the point that everyone gets a participation badge. You're right that WB is not for everybody, it's not supposed to be. What difference does it make what your pistol cost? Sell it and get two Rock Islands if you want to shoot WB. If you simply want the game to comform to what you have, stay home. I won't miss you.

That is the attitude we all see,starting at the top of the Wild Bunch committee and downward, and it explains why it gets such a bad rap throughout the cowboy community.

[Assassin]

And you know what? I would rather see you malcontents not shoot, simply because they won't kiss your butt than to see the rules diluted to the point that everyone gets a participation badge. You're right that WB is not for everybody, it's not supposed to be. What difference does it make what your pistol cost? Sell it and get two Rock Islands if you want to shoot WB. If you simply want the game to comform to what you have, stay home. I won't miss you.

And I wonder why WB attracts little interest!

 

Assassin

[Sagerider]

Since joining SASS at the age of 71 in 2009, my real CAS interest has be cramming real black into 45's, shot shells and having fun. This last September I helped with a WB side match at the Twin Buttes Bunch annual in Idaho and was surprised at how much fun the these guys were having. Already had the rifle, shotgun and bought a 1911 with the right barrel length. I gave my last 1911 to my son after retiring from the USAF in 1982. Shot my first match at CowTown AZ in December. What a hoot! 105 1911 rounds on the final stage along with rifles and shotguns just for fun. If that would not interest you I'm afraid you may be closer to the last rodeo than I. I understand the rules and while I do not agree with them all, they are still the rules until changed. I understand that not everyone can run out and buy a new rifle or pistol for this new venue. But when you can, you will not be wasting your time. Assassin, I shot with you this fall at my first Hell on Wheels shoot. Shot with a heck of a good bunch who really enjoyed CAS and believe the same interest could be found if they were offered WB. A little interest at the top of the club may get something started. Idaho Sagerider

[Rio Brazos Kid]

And you know what? I would rather see you malcontents not shoot, simply because they won't kiss your butt than to see the rules diluted to the point that everyone gets a participation badge. You're right that WB is not for everybody, it's not supposed to be. What difference does it make what your pistol cost? Sell it and get two Rock Islands if you want to shoot WB. If you simply want the game to comform to what you have, stay home. I won't miss you.

 

Goody, I think you would make a fine candidate for a Dale Carnegie course.

[Goody, SASS #26190]

Goody, I think you would make a fine candidate for a Dale Carnegie course.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt and three awards in 1985. In fact, they ask me to stick around and help with future classes.

 

Just where did you hone your people pleasing skills?

[Assassin]

Since joining SASS at the age of 71 in 2009, my real CAS interest has be cramming real black into 45's, shot shells and having fun. This last September I helped with a WB side match at the Twin Buttes Bunch annual in Idaho and was surprised at how much fun the these guys were having. Already had the rifle, shotgun and bought a 1911 with the right barrel length. I gave my last 1911 to my son after retiring from the USAF in 1982. Shot my first match at CowTown AZ in December. What a hoot! 105 1911 rounds on the final stage along with rifles and shotguns just for fun. If that would not interest you I'm afraid you may be closer to the last rodeo than I. I understand the rules and while I do not agree with them all, they are still the rules until changed. I understand that not everyone can run out and buy a new rifle or pistol for this new venue. But when you can, you will not be wasting your time. Assassin, I shot with you this fall at my first Hell on Wheels shoot. Shot with a heck of a good bunch who really enjoyed CAS and believe the same interest could be found if they were offered WB. A little interest at the top of the club may get something started. Idaho Sagerider

 

IS,

 

The state WB was held at the same range a couple years ago. If I'm not mistaken there were only 8 shooters, interest has wained since. I use to shoot WB with the Sand Creek Raiders range in Byers CO, it was pretty much any gun from that era and we had a hoot. Thanks to Evil Roy and Pecos Clyde for all the hard work they have put into WB. I have shot with them for many years and they are true assets to CAS, WB, and the shooting sports in general.

I reckon everyone is not partial to 1911's, recently I purchased a couple just because they were good deals. Not my "go to" guns, have not had any inclination to shoot them, although I have my own range and plenty of ammo. After thinking about WB, most of the people I shoot with are still working and barely have enough time for CAS shooting, most of those around here that shoot WB are retired and have enough time to dedicate to both venues. Hope to see you at HOW 2014, it'll be better than ever!

 

Assassin

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

I have been to all 3 TX State WBAS Championships. All 3 years we have had right at 30 shooters. Very sad and disappointing to me, a WB-aholic.

 

Dying on the vine? May be. It sure as hell ain't taking off like so many of us hoped.

 

I do not have any answers.

[backshootin beauford mcgee]

I like WB, especially loading up the 97 like it was designed! I don't own a rifle in under .40 cal, so it does not matter to me. Got more of the new fangled mule guns than thumb busters so I really enjoy Wild Bunch. Many less 'gamers' too!

[Chuckaroo #13080 Regulator]

I believe most Cowboy Action Shooters do not feel that Wild Bunch is Cowboy at all. If you are an old west fan, the 1911 is a space travelers gun, not a cowboy gun.

Right or wrong, it has nothing to do with the old west.

Most of us don't mind buying another gun or two, it is what we live for!

 

I enjoy shooting my 1911's and there are plenty of sports that cater to Mr. Brownings masterpiece.

 

I like Wild bunch but I do not care for any combination of it and regular cowboy shooting. In my opinion, a 1911 does not fit into any match that has the word cowboy in it.