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Anvil Al #59168

TG VOTE

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So are the straightened triggers allowed or not? See post 13 item 3. What is up to the Match Director's discretion? Didn't the T Gs vote and pass it?

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So are the straightened triggers allowed or not? See post 13 item 3. What is up to the Match Director's discretion? Didn't the T Gs vote and pass it?

Yes it was voted on and passed.

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Yes it was voted on and passed.

 

Larsen,

Isn't the degree of straightening or re-alignment to be allowed, still being studied by the ROC??

 

RBK

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Larsen,

Isn't the degree of straightening or re-alignment to be allowed, still being studied by the ROC??

 

RBK

The discussion was primarily about Marlins and the Slick McClade trigger. That is the trigger we were asked to look at before voting. So, that trigger is legal. If my recollection is correct, the ROC will now look at whether it is necessary to set some limits or criteria for "profiling" long gun triggers in general.

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Regional/local club rules generally prevail...this oughta give y'all something to fret about until this evening's news:

:P

7:00 AM - First meal of the day = Breakfast

9:30 AM - Mid-morning "lite" = Brunch

Noon - Mid-day = Lunch (except on weekends/holidays, then it's Dinner)

6:00 PM Evening meal = Supper or Dinner (unless one has breakfast food; then it's Breakfast again)

7:00 PM Friday = Pizza night

(times approximate)

You left one out

 

1:31 PM - 3:59 PM = Lunder ;):P That is a combination of Lunch and Dinner. My wife and I have been using that term for about thirty years

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I can tell from all of the "Dinner" qualifications that most of you are capable of describing what a "miss" is. TG Veterans only.

 

Roo

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The wording on the ballot was changed to action instead of lever.

 

Roo

 

Makes all the difference in the world. Thanks again for your diligence to details, and to all the TG's for keeping an open mind and their hard work. Wish #2 would have passed, I dislike pre-emptive penalties.

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Well... we've certainly come a long, long way from "no external modificatons... And I'm no longer sure it's in the direction the founders foresaw.

 

I suspect we should just drop the pretext... and declare an "open" category to allow pro sponsorship for those that wish such... and all that it entails.

 

I KNOW I'm certainly in the minority... but the whole game has changed... And while I don't like some of the things in WB... I applaud the current hold rules.

 

Go ahead... take your best shot.

Wouldn't dream of flaming you Griff and have mucho respect for your experience within the game. But from a hammer standpoint the Bisley restriction was silly at best under the current rules pertaining to other hammers. You sill have to cock the hammer, lever the action,pull the trigger with a digit,break open a lever and open a pump by hand. Meaning it still requires the skill of the shooter to shoot any of our guns with any proficiency. Lever throws have been determined and plenty of other mods shot down. And having a full grasp of the vision I really don't see where a straight trigger and hammer swap affects that, then again I've never let anyone else's actions affect my fun in CAS.

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Verifying that.

IMO...there is no reason that the two 'modification' items should not be in effect immediately.

Does the WB need to agree with the rule changes before they become legal?

 

Assassin

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It seems again there is confusion.

Is it Lever vs Action?

 

Will the actual wording that was voted on be posted?

If so where?

 

And when do they go in to effect?

Use to be New rules took effect at the next EoT.

But I haven't been in a while so I am not up to date on this.

I don't keep up on this stuff as I probably should.

But I am still shooting the same guns I started with in 1992.

Stock but slicked up some.

 

I post this information on a few club web sites and would lie to get it right.

 

Thanks.

CH

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The confusion is coming from some impatience. Give folks a chance to get home and settled in. Relax folks.

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It seems again there is confusion.

Is it Lever vs Action?

 

Will the actual wording that was voted on be posted?

If so where?

 

And when do they go in to effect?

Use to be New rules took effect at the next EoT.

But I haven't been in a while so I am not up to date on this.

I don't keep up on this stuff as I probably should.

But I am still shooting the same guns I started with in 1992.

Stock but slicked up some.

 

I post this information on a few club web sites and would lie to get it right.

 

Thanks.

CH

 

 

I was thinking it went into effect at the up coming WR. Which is just a few months.

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Does the WB need to agree with the rule changes before they become legal?

 

Assassin

 

The WB "agreed" when the items were added to the Summit agenda.

<_<

 

(actually before the agenda was finalized...two members of the ROC are WB members as well)

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It seems again there is confusion.

Is it Lever vs Action?

 

Will the actual wording that was voted on be posted?

If so where?

 

And when do they go in to effect?

Use to be New rules took effect at the next EoT.

But I haven't been in a while so I am not up to date on this.

I don't keep up on this stuff as I probably should.

But I am still shooting the same guns I started with in 1992.

Stock but slicked up some.

 

I post this information on a few club web sites and would lie to get it right.

 

Thanks.

CH

There is no confusion. As Chuckeroo and others that were there have posted, the language was changed from "lever" to "action" to make it clear the rule applies to long guns, not just lever rifles.

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Hello the Camp!

 

The TG vote and ensuing rule changes will indeed raise some questions that need clarifying for some folks.

The ROC is now working on those specific clarifications of the intended consequences of the rule changes. Also, we are working some guidelines and recommendations as to how to handle the situation of a closed action on a long gun, after it has been emptied + opened, after use.

 

Please stay tuned and give us time to get that information out to you.

 

Cheers,

BJZ

 

P.S. Yes the wording was changed from "lever" to "action" to include shotguns, Lightnings, etc......all long guns.

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If I read this correctly, the early USFA Omni Potents with the Bisley style hammer would now be legal.

 

Hmm... Good excuse to find and purchase one!

As would the Double Eagle.

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I can tell from all of the "Dinner" qualifications that most of you are capable of describing what a "miss" is. TG Veterans only.

 

Roo

That would be Maggies Drawers. Next Tuesday will be 50 years since i was drafted. Yee gawds I'm gettin old!

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Wouldn't dream of flaming you Griff and have mucho respect for your experience within the game. But from a hammer standpoint the Bisley restriction was silly at best under the current rules pertaining to other hammers. You sill have to cock the hammer, lever the action,pull the trigger with a digit,break open a lever and open a pump by hand. Meaning it still requires the skill of the shooter to shoot any of our guns with any proficiency. Lever throws have been determined and plenty of other mods shot down. And having a full grasp of the vision I really don't see where a straight trigger and hammer swap affects that, then again I've never let anyone else's actions affect my fun in CAS.

Agreed. On all points, especially your last one. Some of my angst is over being denied that particular mod for 25+ years...

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As would the Double Eagle.

 

I need to send out notification of the news to a couple locals who have some of Reeder's Custom SA's that have been illegal up 'til now.

 

^_^

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I'm kinda disappointed in the fact that #1 passed and #2 did not.

 

I think #1 could turn into a "real Safety " situation, Example; Stage calls for shooter to shoot rifle then restage rifle pointed in a safe direction then shooter moves downrange to shoot pistols & shotgun, perfect storm shooter overloads rifle when restaging rifle lever closes shooter moves downrange now at least two people are downrange shooter & TO & maybe spotters now a over eager expediter picks up a loaded cocked rifle ready to fire with folks downrange not a safe situation,I know what folks are going to say we have rules not to touch rifle..........yada yada, if all we did was side to side movement I would not see a problem but too me downrange movement is part of the game.

 

#2 is not a safety issue, we have the 170 rule if shooter loses control of firearm and of a most likely unloaded gun to begin with and the aggravating thing is the rule is not properly enforced.Example : shooter drops sg shells then picks them up and is told dont use them so shooter drops those shells and then retrieves from body and finishes stage,no penalty is called seen that a bunch, but actually the rule is attemting to retrieve shells or ammo

 

24. Ammunition dropped by a shooter in the course of loading or reloading any firearm during a stage or “ejected” is considered “dead” and may not be recovered until the shooter completes the course of fire. The round must be replaced from the shooter’s person or other area as required by stage description, or if the round is not fired it is counted as a missed shot.

For example, if a round of shotgun ammo is dropped while loading, the round must be replaced from the shooter’s person or other area as required by stage description or counted as a miss. No attempt may be made by the shooter, or any other person, to pick up the dropped round for use on that stage. Shooters trying to recover a dropped round prompts loss of muzzle direction control. Once the dropped round leaves the shooter’s hand or control, it is considered to be a dead round. Stop the shooter if he tries to recover the dead round. It is a 10-second Minor Safety Violation if the shooter retrieves the round during the stage.

 

I know it's a waste of time posting this but I felt like it with #1 I see it as a real safety situation and #2 is not really when during some matches rds are staged anyway.

 

I think some ranges might have a problem with #1 with downrange movement.

 

 

Regards AO

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Now that the TGs and Wild Bunch have finally accepted Bisley hammers, is it time for them to revisit the banning of 93/97 model shotguns for our sport? Finding pump shotguns for our sport is getting harder every day as importers have slowed down 97 pump import shotguns considerably., and finding original 97s in good shape is also getting harder. Our game is hard on these guns and they are breaking a lot more frequently. Making the 93/97 legal would help solve this issue.

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After thinking about the open action rule, some shooters may place (throw) guns down on tables, etc even harder and more unsafely than before. I've been accused of setting might rifle down a little too forcefully on occasion. We shall wait and see.

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When it comes time to restage the rifle I see we will see some of the vertical staging come back.

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Now that the TGs and Wild Bunch have finally accepted Bisley hammers, is it time for them to revisit the banning of 93/97 model shotguns for our sport? Finding pump shotguns for our sport is getting harder every day as importers have slowed down 97 pump import shotguns considerably., and finding original 97s in good shape is also getting harder. Our game is hard on these guns and they are breaking a lot more frequently. Making the 93/97 legal would help solve this issue.

Kid, go to a few local Phoenix gun shows. I see 97s all the time and the prices have dropped dramatically from four or five years ago. I picked up a really nice E series solid frame at the show they had at Cardinals stadium a couple of weeks agon. They made over one million 97s. Very few 93/97s were imported. IMHO the argument that legalizing them increases supply is bogus. I haven't seen a 93/97 at a gun show in a long time.

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Now that the TGs and Wild Bunch have finally accepted Bisley hammers, is it time for them to revisit the banning of 93/97 model shotguns for our sport? Finding pump shotguns for our sport is getting harder every day as importers have slowed down 97 pump import shotguns considerably., and finding original 97s in good shape is also getting harder. Our game is hard on these guns and they are breaking a lot more frequently. Making the 93/97 legal would help solve this issue.

 

The WB (& ROC) had accepted the removal of the Bisley hammer/frame restrictions a long time ago.

Previous ballot issue presented to the TGs failed to make the required 66% @ the 2009 Summit following the 2008 conditional approval of the Ruger Montado.

(simple majority of 61.45% voted in favor at that time)

 

As previously stated...the pump shotgun issue will require the rescinding of the WB edict...NOT a TG vote.

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There were not that many 93/97 imported. I just don't see the need and I even own one.

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Kid, go to a few local Phoenix gun shows. I see 97s all the time and the prices have dropped dramatically from four or five years ago. I picked up a really nice E series solid frame at the show they had at Cardinals stadium a couple of weeks agon. They made over one million 97s. Very few 93/97s were imported. IMHO the argument that legalizing them increases supply is bogus. I haven't seen a 93/97 at a gun show in a long time.

 

I found a "D" model '97 locally (advert on FaceBook) for $150 a few weeks ago.

Condition would probably go for $300-$400 in the current CAS marketplace.

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...and NO, it's NOT 4 SALE!

(this one rounds out the requisite "3" needed for CAS competition...one in the cart, one in the truck & one in the shop)

 

:P

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I'm kinda disappointed in the fact that #1 passed and #2 did not.

 

I think #1 could turn into a "real Safety " situation, Example; Stage calls for shooter to shoot rifle then restage rifle pointed in a safe direction then shooter moves downrange to shoot pistols & shotgun, perfect storm shooter overloads rifle when restaging rifle lever closes shooter moves downrange now at least two people are downrange shooter & TO & maybe spotters now a over eager expediter picks up a loaded cocked rifle ready to fire with folks downrange not a safe situation,I know what folks are going to say we have rules not to touch rifle..........yada yada, if all we did was side to side movement I would not see a problem but too me downrange movement is part of the game.

 

#2 is not a safety issue, we have the 170 rule if shooter loses control of firearm and of a most likely unloaded gun to begin with and the aggravating thing is the rule is not properly enforced.Example : shooter drops sg shells then picks them up and is told dont use them so shooter drops those shells and then retrieves from body and finishes stage,no penalty is called seen that a bunch, but actually the rule is attemting to retrieve shells or ammo

 

24. Ammunition dropped by a shooter in the course of loading or reloading any firearm during a stage or “ejected” is considered “dead” and may not be recovered until the shooter completes the course of fire. The round must be replaced from the shooter’s person or other area as required by stage description, or if the round is not fired it is counted as a missed shot.

For example, if a round of shotgun ammo is dropped while loading, the round must be replaced from the shooter’s person or other area as required by stage description or counted as a miss. No attempt may be made by the shooter, or any other person, to pick up the dropped round for use on that stage. Shooters trying to recover a dropped round prompts loss of muzzle direction control. Once the dropped round leaves the shooter’s hand or control, it is considered to be a dead round. Stop the shooter if he tries to recover the dead round. It is a 10-second Minor Safety Violation if the shooter retrieves the round during the stage.

 

I know it's a waste of time posting this but I felt like it with #1 I see it as a real safety situation and #2 is not really when during some matches rds are staged anyway.

 

I think some ranges might have a problem with #1 with downrange movement.

 

 

Regards AO

Verticle staging and the assest penality wiil stop your concerns. I don't know what to tell you about people touching the rifle other than good posse instructions before the match and I agree about #2 but dropped rounds being picked up from the ground seemed to be the breaking point from what I can gather.

 

KK

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Verticle staging and the assest MDQ wiil stop your concerns. I don't know what to tell you about people touching the rifle other than good posse instructions before the match and I agree about #2 but dropped rounds being picked up from the ground seemed to be the breaking point from I can gather.

 

KK

Vertical staging sucks more than a 10 second penalty. Nothing like replacing sights after every match.

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Vertical staging sucks more than a 10 second penalty. Nothing like replacing sights after every match.

Didn't say it was perfect only a solution.

 

KK

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Vertical staging sucks more than a 10 second penalty. Nothing like replacing sights after every match.

 

 

A lot of that could depend on how you V racks are made.

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A lot of that could depend on how you V racks are made.

Reckon I'll see the latest and greatest at WR, just got my confirmation.

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Vertical staging sucks more than a 10 second penalty. Nothing like replacing sights after every match.

 

If yer knocking your sights off, have you considered that maybe yer doin' something wrong??

 

...

 

:wacko:

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