Questions for BP Shooters, Re: Uberti Walker Reproductions

[Cat Brules]

I just purchased a pair of Uberti Walker Colt reproductions. Apparently, these are unfired, and were on consignment at a local gun shop.

On the Uberti box-end label, along with the description, serial number, etc. they are labeled Stoeger.”

 

I didn’t see too much in the way of roll stamping on the revolvers other than some the cylinder scene, some proof or inspection stamps, etc.

 

The trigger guards and front grip straps are brass; the back straps are blue steel.

 

Does anyone have an opinion on these Walker reproductions, from the aspects of their being faithful to the original, functionality or other praise or criticism?

The basic instructions in the box do not state what correct size diameters to use for a

lead ball

conical bullet

or

size percussion cap to use.

 

---QUESTIONS:

• Is there something special or different about the Stoeger brand on the Uberti label? EDIT: (i.e. did Stoeger ask for any cosmetics that do not appear on the standard Uberti Walker?)
• Is the .457 lead ball the right one to use?
• What size conical bullet should be used?
• Is No. 11 caps the right size for the Walker reproduction?
• What experience do you have with Remington percussion caps?
• Do the Remington and the CCI No. 11 caps fit the nipples equally well?

I’m thinking that the 60-grain FFFg load the Walker is touted to use is stout enough to possibly blow up even the modern Uberti cylinder, to say nothing of the original Walkers, which were known to experience this failure.

• will 40 grains of FFFg be enough to send the slug out with acceptable force and accuracy?
• What’s your opinion on the best brands of real BP and substitute BP?
• What screem size BP do you find best in BP revolvers; FFg or FFFg. I’m using FFG Goex, in my Pietta .36 Navy revolvers, with excellent results.
• What’s a good place to order real BP or substitutes from?

I appreciate any suggestions or ideas you can give me. These Walkers should be a lot of fun.

 

----EDIT----

Oh, yeah! The wedges in these pistols must have been put in with a sledge hammer. I've damaged the nylong face on my gunsmith's hammer trying to remove them and they aren't moving. I don't want to step up to a brass face or a larger hammer, in fear of damaging the revolvers. Not long ago, I saw a topic or a reply that mentioned a cowboy who works on percussions, who is expert at "tuning" the wedges so that they push in, stay firmly in place, but come out again very easily with hand pressure. Can anyone point me to him?

[Rye Miles #13621]

Stoeger is just an importer like Cimarron and Taylor's. I have one and haven't shot it yet. I'd refer to Mike Belliveau's many videos about C&B guns including the Walker.

 

Rye

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Jeez Cat......

Well OK, I'll try

1. No, nothing special. Uberti and Stoeger are owned by Benelli with Stoeger doing the importing

2. Maybe, maybe not. Need to slug the bore and mic the chambers.

3. See # 2

4. Depends on the nipples. First thing to do is toss the Uberti nipples and switch to either Tresso or Slixshot

5. Remmington are mostly recommended, giving good reliable ignition. # 10 and #11 are the most common/popular. # 11 is a # 10 with a longer skirt.

6. No

 

Next set of questions

 

1. Probably. Plenty of power, you have to play to get accurate

2. I like APP.

3. Flip a coin. 3f is a mite hotter, more Velocity & recoil, 2f gives a bit milder load, less velocity & recoil.

4. I don't order. I buy local, but a bunch of others are gonna chime in with more information. Get a pen a paper. Your gonna need to take notes :-)

 

Coffinmaker

[Pulp, SASS#28319]

Anything over 40 grains of FFFg and you will be pushing the 1000fps rule. My 45 grain spout throws around 43 grains. I chrono'd 5 shots at that charge and got three in the 990's and two in the low 1000's. Bad side to that is the rammer isn't long enough to seat a bullet on much under 40 grains without using filler.

[Tom Bullweed]

The powder volume in any C&B pistol can be lowered to about half of what the chamber will hold with a bullet completely seated. The load must be tall enough for the ball to be completely pressed against the powder with the loading lever ram.

My suggestion is to start around 25-30 grains. Try the .451" balls. The .454" balls may also be a good choice if the chambers are cut a little large. .457" balls are generally used for the Ruger Old Army and some Rogers & Spencers.

Using shorting loads will require a lubed wonder wad instead of bore butter or some other grease on the face of the cylinder to keep powder residue soft and prevent chain firing.

The real trick with C&B pistols is the nipple-cap combination. Other cowboys will have information about what combination works best for Walkers.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Added: if you want to run reduced charges, consider a cylinder loading stand. Wonderful.

 

Coffinmaker

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Hi Cat:

• Is there something special or different about the Stoeger brand on the Uberti label? EDIT: (i.e. did Stoeger ask for any cosmetics that do not appear on the standard Uberti Walker?)
• Stoeger is the importer. I've never seen an original, so I can't talk about the authenticity of Uberti's reproduction.
• Is the .457 lead ball the right one to use? Uberti .44s usually use .454 roundballs. Piettas use .451s. .457s will be harder to load.
• What size conical bullet should be used? I don't know as I have never used one in a Uberti. I size BigLube conicals for my Rugers to .454
• Is No. 11 caps the right size for the Walker reproduction? Treso makes a nipple set for Uberti Walkers #11-50-13 . The six pack catalog number is 11-50-136. You want Remington #10 or #11 caps. #10 & #11 are the same diameter, but #10s are deeper.
• What experience do you have with Remington percussion caps? 100% ignition with Treso and Slix nips.
• Do the Remington and the CCI No. 11 caps fit the nipples equally well? There is no standardization in cap manufacture across companies. Here is a liink to an excellent article on caps & nips. http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=9093.0

I’m thinking that the 60-grain FFFg load the Walker is touted to use is stout enough to possibly blow up even the modern Uberti cylinder, to say nothing of the original Walkers, which were known to experience this failure.

• will 40 grains of FFFg be enough to send the slug out with acceptable force and accuracy? Yes, but you don't need anywhere near that much. Cap guns tend to be more accurate with lower charges.
• What’s your opinion on the best brands of real BP and substitute BP? For cap guns, any brand is good (Goex, KIK, Schutzen, Wano, etc). I'm not a big fan of subs in cap guns.
• What screem size BP do you find best in BP revolvers; FFg or FFFg. I’m using FFG Goex, in my Pietta .36 Navy revolvers, with excellent results. Either 2F or 3F. I use 3F. National champion Split Rail uses 2F. Doesn't matter much. More punch & cleaner burn with 3F.
• What’s a good place to order real BP or substitutes from? I order 25 pounds at a time from any of the big distributers like Powder Inc, Grafs, Deer Creek, Maine Powder house, etc. Talk to BP shooters at your club about where they get theirs & maybe go in with them on a big order--keeps the price low.

I appreciate any suggestions or ideas you can give me. These Walkers should be a lot of fun.

----EDIT----

Oh, yeah! The wedges in these pistols must have been put in with a sledge hammer. I've damaged the nylong face on my gunsmith's hammer trying to remove them and they aren't moving. I don't want to step up to a brass face or a larger hammer, in fear of damaging the revolvers. Not long ago, I saw a topic or a reply that mentioned a cowboy who works on percussions, who is expert at "tuning" the wedges so that they push in, stay firmly in place, but come out again very easily with hand pressure. Can anyone point me to him?

I use a brass punch modified to fit the wedge & a heavy brass hammer for first time removal.

Any good BP gunsmith should be able to fit the wedge for you. I send my cap guns to Rowdy Yates at Lee's Gunsmithing,

I like Cylinder loading stands like the Powder Inc model or Dick Dastardly's Tower of Power.

Either one is a lifetime investment.

All my wedges fit properly, so it is no big deal to pop out the wedge & remove the barrel & cylinder while watching the unloading table.

That way I can wipe off any accumulated fouling and quickly load using a Lee dipper.

I usually use a greased wad between the powder & ball.

You can make them or buy economically from Sage Brush (http://www.sageoutfitters.com/catalog/item/7230243/7463802.htm).

A cylinder loader makes conicals easier to load too.

--DAwg

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

See, I told ya, take notes. Dawg really knows of which he speaks.

 

Coffinmaker

[Cat Brules]

Geeez!!

I want to thank everyone who responed to my questions for all your help

 

PD, all that detail is very much appreciated! and, YES, I'm taking notes, copying and pasting all this good information into MSWord.

 

So, running full loads isn't such a hot idea. 60 grains is a lot of powder!! Didn't realize it would perform with very low (comparatively) loads.

 

Thanks everyone!!

Cat Brules

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

No one else addressed it but you don't need to worry about blowing up a Uberti cylinder with a full 60gr load. Metallurgy has come a long way since the cast iron guns of 1847. A steady diet of full loads will loosen the gun up prematurely and, as others have noted, aren't as accurate as the reduced loads.

 

Having said that, I think every Walker owner needs to shoot full-house loads at least once just for kicks. The gun is heavy enough and it's still just a 147gr ball so it's not that much recoil.

[Noz]

Be prepared. The Walker loading lever lock is notorious for allowing the loading lever to fall at inopportune times. A piece of leather looped around the lever and barrel or a piece of denim, ribbon, bandanna etc will work. There is a mod that helps the lever stay up.

[Cat Brules]

Be prepared. The Walker loading lever lock is notorious for allowing the loading lever to fall at inopportune times. A piece of leather looped around the lever and barrel or a piece of denim, ribbon, bandanna etc will work. There is a mod that helps the lever stay up.

 

Hi Noz,

Thanks. I've read about that problem with the Walkers and how it was resolved almost 170 years ago and we are still using that fix. I like stuff like that. I have some rawhide that I will soak and scrape thin, then make maybe 1/4" wide strips and weave them into loops to go around the barrel and the loading lever, just as was done in 1847 and later.

[Pulp, SASS#28319]

Scrape that rawhide as thin as you can, as it doesn't take much to hide that little ol front sight. If you're hand with metal, take some copper flashing and make a sorta figure eight lookin' thing, open at the top, to slide over the barrel and loading lever. I don't worry about the loading lever dropping anyway, if it drops I just pop it back up. That's why God gave us knees!

 

Anyway, a 30 grain charge is more than enough for CAS purposes, but you will have to add some corn meal or grits as a spacer in order to fully seat the bullet.

 

Some new holsters will also be in order, as they won't fit the average holster.