Widder, SASS #59054 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Whew! That sure a lot of responsibility and pressure to hang onto one person with no formal training and no pay. Not to say much fun for the T.O. Sure doesn't help make a case for being the T.O. Some of us don't look for excuses NOT to do a job but rather we look for the good reasons why we should do the jobs as needed. And, when we find ourselves tired and brain dead at certain times, there are others able and willing to step up to the task at hand ..... even when there is no pay. The rewards of doing a good job far exceeds monetary value for some of us. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I would post another comment but its only gona be the same thing PWB will say... With that, I hope all Y'all have a good day. 'Let em have it PWB'..... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0ckr0ach, SASS #26100 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Perhaps Proper coaching - actually assists the shooter through the course of fire Improper coaching - actually retards the shooter through the course of fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Improper coaching would be anything you say or gesture that impedes a shooter or directs a shooter to engage the scenario incorrectly. Yes. It is a huge responsibility to be a TO, but some of us accept the challenge. Possum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassalong Hopidy Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I'm a big advocate of helping people complete the stage the best they can. I think I'm pretty good at running the clock and have helped the vast majority of shooters compaired to shooters ive messed up. No matter what your thoughts are on the subject. If you run the clock enough you'll screw somebody up and occasionally need to offer a reshoot. Use common sense on the reshoot and have fun! Ringer I couldn't agree more. I run the timer a fair amount and little makes me feel better than assisting a shooter with target sequence, gun order, etc. Nothing has made me feel worse than the couple of times I "assisted" a shooter in turning what would have been a P into a SDQ. And as Lead Ringer and others here have said, if you run the timer enough you will screw up. With luck, the worst it will come to is a reshoot. But it does teach some lessons: 1) if it's not a safety issue, you need to be certain before you say anything to the shooter, and 2) let the really accomplished shooters run (again barring a safety concern)as your chances of helping a shooter with target sequence when he/she puts 24 shots down in 16 seconds is slim. One of the greatest challenges is avoiding the expectation that you make every call that involves some thinking instantly. There are occasions when you need to go to the rule book--no disgrace in that, just hand off the timer and get it right for the benefit of the shooter and the other competitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 A note to all TOs. A lot of us are of advanced age and have various infirmities. I for one have approximately 30% of the hearing I once had and that's before I put my earplugs in to protect what's left. A chatty TO is a horror. I'm constantly distracted at trying to shoot the stage and still interpret what the TO is saying. I have stopped shooting more than once because I had misinterpreted an ROs comment. ROs fault? Probably not! Just my inability to interpret his comments. Keep me safe. Help me if I ask. Otherwise shut up. Any errors or misses belong to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I would post another comment but its only gona be the same thing PWB will say... With that, I hope all Y'all have a good day. 'Let em have it PWB'..... ..........Widder Go ahead Widder...this ain't hit page 3 yet. FWIW - I think Creeker has expressed the best outlook/attitude regarding the position...some other folks just don't seem to have the temperament to handle the "job". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 A note to all TOs. A lot of us are of advanced age and have various infirmities. I for one have approximately 30% of the hearing I once had and that's before I put my earplugs in to protect what's left. A chatty TO is a horror. I'm constantly distracted at trying to shoot the stage and still interpret what the TO is saying. I have stopped shooting more than once because I had misinterpreted an ROs comment. ROs fault? Probably not! Just my inability to interpret his comments. Keep me safe. Help me if I ask. Otherwise shut up. Any errors or misses belong to me. I too have encountered this with our hearing impaired shooters. You try to coach them but their impaired hearing combined with earplugs will not allow them to understand what you're saying and sometimes this results in the shooter stopping and saying, "Huh?" Is this an example of improper coaching? Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 I would post another comment but its only gona be the same thing PWB will say... With that, I hope all Y'all have a good day. 'Let em have it PWB'..... ..........Widder PWB and I have an "understanding". He'll let us "Duke this out" for awhile. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I too have encountered this with our hearing impaired shooters. You try to coach them but their impaired hearing combined with earplugs will not allow them to understand what you're saying and sometimes this results in the shooter stopping and saying, "Huh?" Is this an example of improper coaching? Fillmore after 30 years of being a carpenter in a noise filled envirment I am pret near deaf in my right ear, and cant hear much out of my left one, that is a reason I do not run a timer much any more, when I do, I give it my best and always have on the range ya never really hear shooters complain about timer operators on this here wire thingie it comes up from time to time I praise anyone that steps up to the plate and does posse chores on a regular basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 after 30 years of being a carpenter in a noise filled envirment I am pret near deaf in my right ear, and cant hear much out of my left one, that is a reason I do not run a timer much any more, when I do, I give it my best and always have on the range ya never really hear shooters complain about timer operators on this here wire thingie it comes up from time to time That's probably because we're all wearing ear plugs out on the range!! I praise anyone that steps up to the plate and does posse chores on a regular basis Ditto dat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 after 30 years of being a carpenter in a noise filled envirment I am pret near deaf in my right ear, and cant hear much out of my left one, that is a reason I do not run a timer much any more, when I do, I give it my best and always have on the range ya never really hear shooters complain about timer operators on this here wire thingie it comes up from time to time I praise anyone that steps up to the plate and does posse chores on a regular basis Huh?? wudu say?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 C'mon y'all. We have to post more so we'll get to page 3 and get PWB's official take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Yep, Creeker nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0ckr0ach, SASS #26100 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I agree, as well, that Creeker nailed it. And from my observation, he performs that way. But "improper coaching" is yet to be defined, here. Griff, in post #6, provided a definition, which leaves considerable discretion to the TO. Maybe that is all that's needed. Others have offered - basically, any coaching that impedes the shooter. A little more precise, perhaps. How precise does the definition need to be ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Impede and also check out synonyms related to "impede". Actually like the wording "impede" rather then improper, and better defines the situation for a re-shoot Anything that the TO/RO says or does that "impedes" the shooter from shooting the stage as written. MT http://us.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7py8mHNSQCMAuTQPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTBybnZlZnRlBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkAw--/SIG=124iju7im/EXP=1383336252/**http%3a//www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/impede Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Improper coaching would be anything you say or gesture that impedes a shooter or directs a shooter to engage the scenario incorrectly. Yes. It is a huge responsibility to be a TO, but some of us accept the challenge. Possum I try my best as most of us do but sometimes things get by you no matter how had you try. Props can obstruct you point of view, targets can be close together so gun movement (or what targets are being engaged) can be difficult to see etc. Even the shooter blocks your vision many times and seeing everything instantly can be tough so I hate to see a TO catch the blame when things go south. As we all know most TO's enjoy catching mistakes......not causing them, If I get in a situation where I'm NOT sure I don't say anything.........I hate when that happens but IF it does the shooter has to own it at that point. Most folks shake their heads and say. "na' I just screwed up its on me" or things like that.....while others like to pass the blame for a re-shoot.......I sure like it when folks take responsibility rather than place blame on others. Now if I would TELL someone to shoot a target that earned them a P then I would surely offer a re-shoot. So again IF I get lost as well........I go into no-coaching mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Looking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 For Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I will help it get to PAGE 3.I for one like Possum or anyone else to help me when I have a brain freeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Are we there yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I agree with PaleWolf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Is this improper coaching, to get to page 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I agree with PaleWolf. Too easy........He WAS wrong once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Too easy........He WAS wrong once That was only when he thought he was wrong. Later corrected. No penalty given. Believe he was given a re-shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Too easy........He WAS wrong onceHeard that was just an "Urban Legend"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concho Billy Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 We don't need no stinking coaching.....LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 So if this is a team sport should I be supplying black shirts to the TO and spotters. Should a miracle happen and I win a buckle or plaque shouldn't I cut those into pieces to be divided amongst the team. But if the spotters and TO is part of my team wouldn't they have to pass off their said duties like say a family member to keep it on the up and up. Then who would take over those duties and how would they not become part of my team. Lots to think about. Page three is definitely in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Just see in' if I can help you folks out... Rance Thinkin'... "Are we there yet?" My kids said that on every trip... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 'bout the time this hits p.3 (s/b @ post #71 or so, btw) , it'll be time for me to shut down temporarily...so don't y'all go gittin' TOO anxious waitin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Coroner Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Doing my part for Page 3. I like what Creeker has said. I run the timer a lot and I always try and do my best and learn from my mistakes. However, when I'm shooting and I screw up, it's my fault and on to the next stage. If I can't remember what the heck to do for 20 seconds, well that's may fault. Dutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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