Police Union: NFL Ban On Guns Is ‘An Insult’ To Off-Duty Cops

[Subdeacon Joe]

(CBS) – A new NFL policy bans off-duty law enforcement officers from taking their guns into stadiums.

 

 

“If you don’t have someone that could respond to a deadly-force
incident that could cause more lives to be in jeopardy,” one officer
says.

“You’re never just a spectator,” the other says. “Even when I’m off-duty, I’m supposed to get involved.”

 

 

It isn't an insult to honest citizens, too? And, what, non-badge carrying citizens aren't supposed to get involved? We, the ones without the badges, are most often the "first responders" at anything other than a traffic stop or a raid.

[Henry T Harrison]

(CBS) – A new NFL policy bans off-duty law enforcement officers from taking their guns into stadiums.

 

 

“If you don’t have someone that could respond to a deadly-force

incident that could cause more lives to be in jeopardy,” one officer

says.

 

“You’re never just a spectator,” the other says. “Even when I’m off-duty, I’m supposed to get involved.”

 

 

It isn't an insult to honest citizens, too? And, what, non-badge carrying citizens aren't supposed to get involved? We, the ones without the badges, are most often the "first responders" at anything other than a traffic stop or a raid.

There is a very big difference between a Police Officer and an armed civilian. As a police officer I had a six month stint in the academy, a four year degree in Police Science, two weeks annual training and I qualify with my weapon three times a year. I work thousands of hours in my field every year gaining experience in handling situations. What does the average armed citizen bring to the table in training and experience that would be applicable ?

[Subdeacon Joe]

So, your theory is that no one beside LE is in any way, shape, or form capable of safely carrying and using a firearm and is unable to make a rational decision about use of deadly force. Sounds like something out of Brady, "Only the police have a six month stint in the academy, get a four year degree in Police Science, have two weeks annual training and qualify with their weapons three times a
year. And they work thousands of hours in their field every year gaining experience in handling situations. Therefore, only police are professional enough to carry firearms in public."

 

Sorry, I don't buy it.

 

ADDED:

And there we have it. I post that having rights taken away is an insult to honest citizens too, and that in most situations, it isn't LE that are the "first responders" but the people on the scene. What comes back? A response that, when boiled down, says that only police are capable of bearing arms in public.

...

[Henry T Harrison]

Now where in the hell did your anti police mind read that in my post

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

There are citizens that can easily out shoot police and have the mentality to handle a bad situation. To think that only LEOs can handle a situation is ridiculous albeit I'd wager the odds better for the officer.

 

GG

[Subdeacon Joe]

Now where in the hell did your anti police mind read that in my post

 

Anti-police? Sorry, how about "pro-civil rights." And where did I get that?

 

From this line in your post: "What does the average armed citizen bring to the table in training and experience that would be applicable ?"

 

The implication of that is that NO non-LEO is ever capable of carrying a gun in public because we don't have the "training and experience that would be applicable."

 

ADDED:

 

Why is it that any time a non-LEO dares to think that the lowly ordinary citizen is as capable of making rational decisions about use of force as a cop, we get railed at as being "anti-police?"

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

 

Anti-police? Sorry, how about "pro-civil rights." And where did I get that?

 

From this line in your post: "What does the average armed citizen bring to the table in training and experience that would be applicable ?"

 

The implication of that is that NO non-LEO is ever capable of carrying a gun in public because we don't have the "training and experience that would be applicable."

 

ADDED:

 

Why is it that any time a non-LEO dares to think that the lowly ordinary citizen is as capable of making rational decisions about use of force as a cop, we get railed at as being "anti-police?"

FWIW...I didn't see any anti police sentiment in your post.

 

But I ain't a cop either

 

GG

[Subdeacon Joe]

FWIW...I didn't see any anti police sentiment in your post.

 

But I ain't a cop either

 

GG

 

Thanks, Gunner.

[Henry T Harrison]

I have nothing against armed citizens in fact since I retired that’s what I am, as is everyone
in my family. I believe that every qualified citizen should exercise their 2^nd
amendment right not only to keep and bear arms but lawfully carry them. I also believe
that every armed citizen has the responsibility to get training not just in how
to shoot a gun but when and more importantly when not to bring that gun into
play. How many armed citizens have any training let alone meaningful training
in that area? When the shit hits the fan you fall back on training and experience,
without that what do you have?

I’ve known many police officers I wouldn’t trust with a BB gun but I know more armed
citizens I wouldn’t trust with a water gun but that certainly isn’t anything
but a small minority of either.

...

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

 

Thanks, Gunner.

You're welcome pard. Some folks tend to get personal with stuff...I have at times...

 

GG

[The Shoer 27979]

 

 

 

I have nothing against armed citizens in fact since I retired that’s what I am, as is everyone

in my family. I believe that every qualified citizen should exercise their 2^nd

amendment right not only to keep and bear arms but lawfully carry them. I also believe

that every armed citizen has the responsibility to get training not just in how

to shoot a gun but when and more importantly when not to bring that gun into

play. How many armed citizens have any training let alone meaningful training

in that area? When the shit hits the fan you fall back on training and experience,

without that what do you have?

I’ve known many police officers I wouldn’t trust with a BB gun but I know more armed

citizens I wouldn’t trust with a water gun but that certainly isn’t anything

but a small minority of either.

As far as you being anti police I suggest that you review the number of threads you have

started concerning real or imagined misconduct by police and contrast that with the

number of threads you have started about misconduct by clergy. There is your

answer

 

 

 

Now that is the pot calling the kettle black. I have seen you and a lot of the other LEO's on this bored do the same thing when it came to defending other LEO's that you knew were in the wrong. Your statement to this thread is, in my word, is us citizens are to stupid to carry or react to an emergency situation that might require us to think.

[Utah Bob #35998]

You guys are reading too much into each others' posts now and getting too personal. This is the kind of infighting the anti gun crowd likes to see us engage in. I suggest a 3 day cooling off period.

[Henry T Harrison]

You guys are reading too much into each others' posts now and getting too personal. This is the kind of infighting the anti gun crowd likes to see us engage in. I suggest a 3 day cooling off period.

Point taken

My apologies Joe

 

 

 

[Blackwater 53393]

Just as an aside, many people who carry have had training in both firearms handling and in the whens and whys of using their firearms and the consequences of doing so. Many are former military. Others are concerned citizens who accept the responsibilities of carrying and being additional numbers to balance the scales against the evil doers among us.

 

All of them should be congratulated for taking that responsibility.

[Subdeacon Joe]

Point taken

My apologies Joe

 

 

 

 

Accepted and reciprocated, Henry. Come on over to the Saloon and let me buy you a libation or six.

 

Just as an aside, many people who carry have had training in both firearms handling and in the whens and whys of using their firearms and the consequences of doing so. Many are former military. Others are concerned citizens who accept the responsibilities of carrying and being additional numbers to balance the scales against the evil doers among us.

 

All of them should be congratulated for taking that responsibility.

 

Exactly.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Just as an aside, many people who carry have had training in both firearms handling and in the whens and whys of using their firearms and the consequences of doing so. Many are former military. Others are concerned citizens who accept the responsibilities of carrying and being additional numbers to balance the scales against the evil doers among us.

 

All of them should be congratulated for taking that responsibility.

+1

 

GG

[Litl Red]

It isn't an insult to honest citizens, too? And, what, non-badge carrying citizens aren't supposed to get involved? We, the ones without the badges, are most often the "first responders" at anything other than a traffic stop or a raid.

 

 

We are often not only first on the scene, we are often the criminal target. The 2nd should have mentioned self defense. Unfortunately, since it was so very much a part of everyday life for every citizen back then, they naturally did not think to mention it. I firmly believed the authors took for granted anyone with any sense understood that self defense was a given.

 

Unfortunately, way too many unarmed citizens are targets that are unfortunately often surrounded by unarmed "first responders".

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

Interesting thread. It would not surprise me if the average citizen has not had 2 weeks of annual training every year, but then again, the average citizen does not go looking for trouble makers either.

 

So, what does the armed citizen bring to the table? One point I make is that an armed citizen will have the first (and possibly the only) opportunity to defend their life, if they must, at the moment of truth, when sufficient law enforecement is just not there yet.

 

BTW, having practice, guidance and training is a darn good thing. That includes knowing the law inside and out. And I would add, putting away "lawyer money" if you can afford to do so.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Sheesh! I hid or edited the argument. Then, you guys kiss and make up.

 

Glad to see it!

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

OOPs! I just realized this is Team SASS. I unhid everything as Dan is in charge here.

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

Cabin fever must be setting in.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

There is a very big difference between a Police Officer and an armed civilian. As a police officer I had a six month stint in the academy, a four year degree in Police Science, two weeks annual training and I qualify with my weapon three times a year. I work thousands of hours in my field every year gaining experience in handling situations. What does the average armed citizen bring to the table in training and experience that would be applicable ?

So you're saying my ten years of military experience, including one in 'Nam, three in a security barracks, and nearly constantly practicing and improving my skills, being a firearms instructor on and off for thirty some odd years, being involved with the sales of guns and teaching the customers how and when to use them, and being a life long hunter and competitive shooter with hundreds of thousands of rounds fired over a life time doesn't count for a damn thing, right?

 

This kind of LEO elitism just drives me nuts...and it's one of the things that is eroding people's faith in cops all over this country.

 

Sorry, Henry T., but I think you're way out of line on this one.

[Henry T Harrison]

Nope you are well qualified, I was refering to those with no training or experince at all that think they can control a situation

[The Shoer 27979]

so you are all for cop elitism for carrying and if your not that is what your post sounds like

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Nope you are well qualified, I was refering to those with no training or experince at all that think they can control a situation

 

The people I have met with CPL's have had some training, are familiar with firearms, and most likely can defend themselves (and possibly others) if needed to be. I believe the people who are helpless and armed are not in the great number you think they are.

 

GG ~

[Knarley Bob]

In Minnesota to receive a carry permit, one receives training on when one can even pull your gun out of your pocket. When and you can or cannot use it. And we are briefed on the ramifications of such actions.

WE MAY USE DEADLY FORCE only IN SELF DEFENSE or in DEFENCE OF OTHERS, we cannot run after the "bad guys" for we are NOT the police. But, until they show up, I'll be doin' what I can.

As far as the first responders go, I became an E.M.T. in 1975, I just might have an idea of what I'm doin'.

 

Knarley

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

I served as a Police Firearms Instructor for nearly one half of a century. During that time period, I had the privilege of working with some incredibly well trained and accurate shooting police officers. Unfortunately, there were quite a few OTHERS! :-(

 

Since I was a boy (when Columbus sailed the ocean blue), I have been a pistol competitor in bullseye, Marine whose TO weapon was a .451911A1 and a handgun hunter. Few individuals, police or civilian can claim to have fired anywhere close to the number of rounds I have sent down range. In my dotage, the ammo expenditure is down to a minimum of 1,000 rounds of pistol and revolver per week. That does not include my rifle and shotgun fun.

 

Some police officers are competent and perform well under stress. Then, there are others. Many have never used their firearms in a stressful situation at any time from initial recruitment through retirement.

 

Some non police officers are competent and THERE ARE OTHERS.

 

The point is no special group has the right to free speech to the exclusion of others. That should also be true for the RKBA.

 

I am obviously a tad past middle age. After all, I know so few people in their 160s. :-) However, in my day, I carried my revolvers,rifles and shotguns aboard airplanes and trains, placed them in the overhead bins and travelled with no thought by me or my fellow passengers. I biked to grade school with my rifle or shotgun. I kept my weapons in my dorm and fraternity room at college.

Now, we are having a sad discussion about who should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon and where they should be allowed to carry it. THAT IS SO DEPRESSING TO EVEN BE TALKING ABOUT WHO CAN AND CANNOT EXERCISE A RIGHT UNDER OUR CONSTITUTION! :-(

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

I served as a Police Firearms Instructor for nearly one half of a century. During that time period, I had the privilege of working with some incredibly well trained and accurate shooting police officers. Unfortunately, there were quite a few OTHERS! :-(

 

Since I was a boy (when Columbus sailed the ocean blue), I have been a pistol competitor in bullseye, Marine whose TO weapon was a .451911A1 and a handgun hunter. Few individuals, police or civilian can claim to have fired anywhere close to the number of rounds I have sent down range. In my dotage, the ammo expenditure is down to a minimum of 1,000 rounds of pistol and revolver per week. That does not include my rifle and shotgun fun.

 

Some police officers are competent and perform well under stress. Then, there are others. Many have never used their firearms in a stressful situation at any time from initial recruitment through retirement.

 

Some non police officers are competent and THERE ARE OTHERS.

 

The point is no special group has the right to free speech to the exclusion of others. That should also be true for the RKBA.

 

I am obviously a tad past middle age. After all, I know so few people in their 160s. :-) However, in my day, I carried my revolvers,rifles and shotguns aboard airplanes and trains, placed them in the overhead bins and travelled with no thought by me or my fellow passengers. I biked to grade school with my rifle or shotgun. I kept my weapons in my dorm and fraternity room at college.

Now, we are having a sad discussion about who should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon and where they should be allowed to carry it. THAT IS SO DEPRESSING TO EVEN BE TALKING ABOUT WHO CAN AND CANNOT EXERCISE A RIGHT UNDER OUR CONSTITUTION! :-(

Howdy Mud Marine

 

GG