Bama Red Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 "The Searchers" engages my intellect and adrenalin. "The Quiet Man" engages my heart and soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 The Cowboys is another good John Wayne movie. I think I enjoy the cook Nightlinger character played by Roscoe Lee Browne the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sabre Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Prob'ly "The Searchers" was some responsible for many Yanko-Americans' belief that "Isn't Texas just a big desert?" I always grimly answered, "Yep, please remind all yer friends." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 The one thing that always bugged the heck outta me about the Searchers was in the beginning there's 1865 big as he$% on the screen and they're using Win. 92's and Colt 1873 SAA's. Really??? They couldn't have researched a little? Other than that glaring error I thought the movie was just ok. Not on my list of even Top 20 westerns. Rye Favorite JW movies are the Cowboys and the Shootist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I liked it a lot...don't care what anyone else thinks of it anyhow... To each their own. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Creek Law Dog Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 People say they like the new True Grit better than the old one. Mostly people that read the book and maybe not seen the old one tend to like the new one. In my opinion the new version is good on its own but was not better than the John Wayne version. I'd rather had they apply their time and talent to a new story. My wife and I watched the new True Grit and the 1st one back to back in that order....We both agreed the JW one was the better of the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoken D Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 KA-BOOM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Milo Talon SASS #23163 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Inaccuracies, yes. Still a great movie IMHO. When I am channel surfing and run into it, I almost always stop and watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 No its not a very good movie.....................its a great movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliope Cupcake #13981 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I love it-- and watch it every year, often when there's nothing else on TV. It's the characters and setting in this movie that give you a personal experience and take you into the unknown, so the inaccuracies don't bother me. At the time, this was the one that was full of breath-taking panoramas in color. It also reminds me of the sweet time when Mom & Dad took us to the drive-in to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 The one thing that always bugged the heck outta me about the Searchers was in the beginning there's 1865 big as he$% on the screen and they're using Win. 92's and Colt 1873 SAA's. Really??? They couldn't have researched a little? Other than that glaring error I thought the movie was just ok. Not on my list of even Top 20 westerns. Rye Favorite JW movies are the Cowboys and the Shootist. Hard to find a JW film without glaring inaccuracies. He didn't make documentaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I enjoy The Searchers. But I never really try to convince anyone of a movie's goodness, badness, or ugliness. I'll leave that to critics and film students. Cinema is art and therefore very subjective. You can argue faults and merits till you're blue in the face. If I want to get blue in the face I'll wait for a Northern tio blow in December and go sit in the yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasty Newt # 7365 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 As a possible point of interest: I read somewhere that Buddy Holly got the hook for his hit song, That'll Be The Day from watching John Wayne say the line a couple times in The Searchers. Don't know how true that is. I believe that's a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 I enjoy The Searchers. But I never really try to convince anyone of a movie's goodness, badness, or ugliness. I'll leave that to critics and film students. Cinema is art and therefore very subjective. You can argue faults and merits till you're blue in the face. If I want to get blue in the face I'll wait for a Northern tio blow in December and go sit in the yard. I agree with this, but I still think it's possible to have rational discussions about matters of taste. I can say why I like a movie, or don't, and why I think, say, one Gothic cathedral or painting is better than another. And folks with another view, and least if they are the kind who like to discuss things like that, can do the same kind of thing. That kind of thing isn't meant to persuade anybody or argue, but just to back up an opinion with understandable reasons. My post about The Searchers comes off of just having watched it with my daughter, and trying to square it with the accolades it has gotten. Look at Wikipedia, which links to all the "lists" and articles over the decades that call this one of the best movies of all time, and the greatest of all Westerns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I agree with this, but I still think it's possible to have rational discussions about matters of taste. I can say why I like a movie, or don't, and why I think, say, one Gothic cathedral or painting is better than another. And folks with another view, and least if they are the kind who like to discuss things like that, can do the same kind of thing. That kind of thing isn't meant to persuade anybody or argue, but just to back up an opinion with understandable reasons. My post about The Searchers comes off of just having watched it with my daughter, and trying to square it with the accolades it has gotten. Look at Wikipedia, which links to all the "lists" and articles over the decades that call this one of the best movies of all time, and the greatest of all Westerns! Further to your point regarding the subjectiveness of film reviews: From what I've read and seen, while the script and some of the acting could have used help, the reasons for calling The Searchers one of the all time best, is weighted heavily by points I made in my earlier statement: direction cinematography color musical score editing location (though fictional, we should accept that Texas does not look like monument valley) PLUS: The John Ford production company of familiar faces and acting talent I liked the story line in The Searchers and the truth is, that movie should have run longer to develop the characters more. John Ford gave his audience (of the time) what they expected and enjoyed. I found the acting in the movie to be extremely well done, with one or two exceptions. John Wayne and the strong performances by other characters in the movie allowed us to accept the weak points in the script. I personally do not believe that the actors felt comfortable challanging the dictatorial, intimidating John Ford to keep some of the nonsense out of The Searchres script. Regarding Red River: Personally, after watching Howard Hawks' Red River twice (the first viewing, to get past enjoying watching John Wayne), I thought it was (and still do) a mediocre movie, ruined by bad direction, bad acting (both Montgomery Clift and Joanne Dru were horrible) and a bad script. We could have done without the chief yowlachie character, too. The script was absolutely horrible with the exaggerated love interest nonsense and the not-believable presumption that the John Wayne character, Dunson, would behave the way he did, especially at the end of the movie . Red River could have been good, but not with Howard Hawks at the helm. The only thing that DID save Red River is the acting by John Wayne, well supported by Walter Brennan, Harry Carey Sr. (a cameo, really) and Noah Beery Jr. Hawks did not allow the Cherry Valance character to develop, either, and he should have. Instead, the Valance character detracted from the story line instead of complimenting it. Two more subjective reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I believe the reason I don't like Red River is because it wasn't John Wayne. As others have said, Duke always played Duke. And while I could see Big Jake, or G.W, or Uncle Ethan, shooting a man for causing the stampede that got another man killed, I can't see one of them using a bullwhip on him. If it was anyone else playing that part, then maybe I'd like it, but not John Wayne. There's a Cary Grant movie, where he marries a rich gal and then spend most of the movie trying to kill her for her money. The end of the flick has him driving a mountain road, and then jumping out of the car as it and his wife go off the cliff. That was the original script. The movie actually ends with him suddenly whipping the car around and driving back to the house. He told Hitchcock, "My public will not accept me as a villain", so they had to rewrite where he did not kill her. That's the problem with Red River, for me. I just can't accept John Wayne as being that sadistic bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Ethan # 94321 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 The Searchers paved the way the the dark hero. Ground breaking for the time. One of Wayne's best performances. Much better than the movie he won the academy award for, in my humble option. And yes the line "that'll be the day" was the inspiration for Buddy Holly's song. "The song had its genesis in a trip to the movies by Holly, Allison and Sonny Curtis in June 1956. The John Wayne film The Searchers was playing. Wayne's frequently-used, world-weary catchphrase, "that'll be the day" inspired the young musicians" As far as best or worst movie, that's up to the viewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I believe the reason I don't like Red River is because it wasn't John Wayne. As others have said, Duke always played Duke. And while I could see Big Jake, or G.W, or Uncle Ethan, shooting a man for causing the stampede that got another man killed, I can't see one of them using a bullwhip on him. If it was anyone else playing that part, then maybe I'd like it, but not John Wayne. ........................... That's the problem with Red River, for me. I just can't accept John Wayne as being that sadistic bastard. That's an interesting idea and concept and after mulling it over a bit, I don't think it impacted me in the same way, because I think I can accept the "evil twin" John Wayne okay (which I actually don't believe he was ... more on that), but what I can't accept is that a strong character like Dunson would revert to a silly wuss at the end after hiring a bunch of guns and thundering full tilt into Abeline(?) to exact revenge. It doesn't wash. I think the Dunson character was a driven man, having lost his lover by giving her up for his dream before settling down and investing every part of his being into the land and then, seeing it all slipping away. His conservative approach towards the drive along with his unwillingness to accept from others performance less than equal to his own made him appear to be a crazed, sadistic taskmaster. I can see how he would hold his drovers to the letter of their agreement made when they signed on. He held himself to a very high standard, including his word, and expected his hands, many of whom "grew up" in the same harsh environment as himself, to meet those same standards. He never asked them to do something he wouldn't do or had not already done himself. I understand that character and, as I think about it, I believe that Dunson really is a classic John Wayne character ... darker, more stark and pragmatic perhaps than we were used to seeing John Wayne (plus the contrasty black and white cinematography added to that), but still, the Dunson character as played by Wayne, I think is well within my perceived concept of a character Wayne would play. EDIT..... If you want to see John Wayne mimic the Dunson character in The Searchers, take a look at the unshaven, darkly shadowed Ethan Edwards at the cavalry oupost as he and Martin Pawley look for Debbie amongst the rescued and dead white captives taken back there after the cavalry attack and massacre of the Comanche village. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 One thing Red River had was a full cast of really good supporting characters. Walter Brennan being top of the list. Also, I'll put it on just to hear the music. The music makes a big difference. Take The Magnificent Seven. Would it be a great western with different music? The score on Stagecoach just fit. I can't see a stagecoach rolling across a dusty trail without thinking or that music. I can't see someone ridding a bicycle without thinking of the music of Martha Gooch on Wizard of Oz riding her bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriscoCounty Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I figure if you're going to introduce someone to John Wayne, you start near the beginning or the end - Stagecoach or The Shootist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I figure if you're going to introduce someone to John Wayne, you start near the beginning or the end - Stagecoach or The Shootist.The Big Trail was actually the beginning of Duke's stardom. Very enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Ethan # 94321 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 The Big Trail was actually the beginning of Duke's stardom. Very enjoyable. Very true. but it was also the reason he was relegated to B Westerns during the 30s. Movie was a flop because of the way it was filmed. Most theaters at the time couldn't show it. John Ford had trouble raising money foe Stage Coach because Wayne was the star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Plasters, SASS#60943 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Well I can't believe that no one has accepted your challenge to have a Cowboy Fatwa(d) put out on you. I had to look this up in wikipedia (the redneck version) to find out that a cowboy fatwa(d) is when a hefty cowpoke doesn't bathe of change skivvies for a couple of weeks then tracks down the culprit and sits on them. So consider yourself warned if you and I ever cross trails you are in for one unpleasant experience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Hondo was John Wayne at his peak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 Well I can't believe that no one has accepted your challenge to have a Cowboy Fatwa(d) put out on you. I had to look this up in wikipedia (the redneck version) to find out that a cowboy fatwa(d) is when a hefty cowpoke doesn't bathe of change skivvies for a couple of weeks then tracks down the culprit and sits on them. So consider yourself warned if you and I ever cross trails you are in for one unpleasant experience! I take it all back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriscoCounty Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 The Big Trail was actually the beginning of Duke's stardom. Very enjoyable. True enough. The Big Trail (1930) was his first starring movie. Problem was that he relegated back to B westerns after that. It was Stagecoach (1939) that defined him as an A list actor. His did finish out his contractual obligation with Republic with 4 more "Three Mesquiteers" B western series that year after Stagecoach was released, but his following two movies - Allegheny Uprising (1939) and Dark Command (1940) - firmly established him as being permanently on the A list. The Big Trail was his 19th movie. Stagecoach (1939) was his 83rd movie out of the 171 movies he made. So it was made in the middle of the Duke's career, in terms of number of movies made. The Shootist (1976) was his last. Interestingly, the Three Mesquiteer movies were probably seen by more people and made more money than Stagecoach did. It was just that Stagecoach got 6 Oscar nominations and one win - for Thomas Mitchell who was in both Gone with the Wind and Stagecoach. (Gone with the Wind was the big Oscar winner that year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I think Claire Trevor actually got top billing in Stagecoach. John Wayne was probably the weakest actor of the top billed cast. Yakima Canutt was a second unit director and did stunts. One wonders what John Ford would think of today's style and technology of making movies? If he used them, how would he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I wondered why they didn't invite him in for dinner. They were his friends, after all. Or maybe he didn't like lutefisk and lefse. Nobody, and I mean nobody, (and I've lived in MN) "likes" lutefish.........If they tell you so, they're lying. CBO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaukValley Sam, SASS # 66557 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I'll watch Hondo every time it is on. Have the DVD now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel-eye Steve SASS #40674 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Nobody, and I mean nobody, (and I've lived in MN) "likes" lutefish.........If they tell you so, they're lying. CBO +1000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 My favorite JW movie is without a doubt The Cowboys. Never cared much for the Quiet man. The undefeated is another of my favorites, allthough probably not the best JW movie. But I love the line "Windage and elevation Mrs Langdon; windage and elevation" , and have used it in a scenario. The original True Grit was waaaaaaaay better than the remake. and if you say diffrent well.......fill your hand you son of a %^#*^% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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