Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Slow morning. Which would you prefer for up to 300 yard shooting on varmint or small game? I kinda like the .243 but I don't have one. Maybe I should. ED. The .223 ammo should be more available in normal times however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I have both but I shoot the 223 most of the time for varmints and for my deer hunting.The bullets I shoot are really nasty for head shots on deer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 I have zero experience with either and doubt that I will ever gain any. But I have always been intrigued with the .243 Winchester and it's ballistics. Heck, I doubt that I could even see 300 yards with a glass eye. I guess I am prejudice against the .223 because of the military application of a .22 caliber round. I must say that I have never compared them on paper or at the range so anything I say can be taken with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Frank Norfleet Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Both are great varmint rounds. Have used both, now my go to rifle for varmint calling is a 22-250. Use the same bullet as the 223 but a lot more powder in a bigger case. Really reaches out beyond 300 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I've lusted for a .243 since I was a teenager, but for some reason every rifle acquisition has been something else - either because of specific need or availability. First rifle I bought when I was eighteen was a tough choice between a Marlin 336 in .30-30 or a Savage 99 in .243. Opened a magazine (Field & Stream?) one afternoon and there was an advertisement for a "special deal" Marlin package with a scope. That did it. Been a good rifle (carbine) but I very quickly came to my senses and ditched the scope in favor of a Lyman receiver and Marble's Sheard front sights. And I still lust for that '99 in .243.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 you need them both, the 223 for near windless days, the 243 for days with a breeze..... least that's what I tell my wife.... pbcc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 Just looking at the reloading specs and seems the .243 with a 90 grain bullet is a little faster than the .223. Don't know that it means anything but interesting. Know what you mean about the Marlin 30.30 Hardpan. Wish I had never sold that little Carbine that I had back in the day. A 22-250 has some smoke alright. For chucks and varmint of small size, i guess it is the duck's nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCatcher Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Slow morning. Which would you prefer for up to 300 yard shooting on varmint or small game? I kinda like the .243 but I don't have one. Maybe I should. ED. The .223 ammo should be more available in normal times however. Hey BMC - you need the .243. It's the hot ticket these days for long range shooting as well. A lot of bullet choices out there and some have amazing BC, so you can get accuracy and velocity down range - well past 600 yds. My eldest will be switching his long range guns over from .308 to .243 soon.... He's also almost convinced me that a Win mdl 70 FW in .243 will do for most purposes these days! If you need bigger then get a .45-70. SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 SC, I can't see 600 yards. I am beginning to think my 50 yard off the bags shots are going somewhere other than the paper. Change my alias to No Holes Charlie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 You might check the hunting regulations in your state. Here in Colorado the .223 is not legal for deer hunting, requirements are 6mm (.243) with a 70 grain bullet minimum. If used to take elk/moose minimum requirements are 6mm (.243) with a 85 grain bullet and 1000 foot/pounds of energy at 100 yards as rated by the manufacturer. (per DOW regulations, article 1, part 203 - "manner of take") Regards Gateway Kid BTW in the hands of good shot, at a reasonable range, a .243 will take out elk very well, know this because my brother in law shot many over the years and that was the only rifle he owned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 Well, too old to hunt. Legs won't take it any more. Would use the .30 cal if I did. But that .243 intrigues me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Personally, I've never taken game with either. However, when I was up Montana-way, the 12-year-old son of my landlord took a cow elk with a well-placed single shot from a Remington 600 in 6mm Rem. The .243 Winchester is pretty close to the 6mm ballistically, so I'd opt for the .243 over the .223 for varmints or bigger game (regulations permitting). I'd be sure that any rifle you get has a fast enough rifling twist to handle a 100 gr. bullet. I have a sporterized 6mm Remington built on a VZ-24 Mauser action, that has (IIRC) a 1-in-9 in. rifling, and the chamber is long-throated for 100 gr. bullets seated out. Haven't fired it in years (at least 25, since I got into CAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I owned a 243 when they were relatively new. The available bullets really sucked. I sold mine after I discovered that the deer I thought I had missed died from a 24 caliber hole in one side and a 24 cal hole out the other. Better bullets now and I wished I had it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Just for the fun of it, why not toss the venerable .250 Savage (.250-3000) into the fray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 You might check the hunting regulations in your state. Here in Colorado the .223 is not legal for deer hunting, requirements are 6mm (.243) with a 70 grain bullet minimum. If used to take elk/moose minimum requirements are 6mm (.243) with a 85 grain bullet and 1000 foot/pounds of energy at 100 yards as rated by the manufacturer. (per DOW regulations, article 1, part 203 - "manner of take") Regards Gateway Kid BTW in the hands of good shot, at a reasonable range, a .243 will take out elk very well, know this because my brother in law shot many over the years and that was the only rifle he owned Correct. Although the original question was for varmints.There are good reasons to have a gun in each caliber. I just have to convince my wife what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulp, SASS#28319 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I've had a Browning BAR in .243 since '73, Love the cartridge. With 55 grain bullets you can easily push 4000fps, and with 100 grain bullets 3000fps is achievable with the right powder. I also came across a Remington 660 in .243 about three years ago. Both guns are plenty accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Just for the fun of it, why not toss the venerable .250 Savage (.250-3000) into the fray? I've shot a 25-06 since before it was a factory cartridge (called a .25 Neider). Built my first one about 1960. I have a M77 Ruger I bought new in 1977 in this caliber and have shot over 50 deer, about 40 antelope, feral hogs, Javalina and literally 100's of coyotes. Still shoots sub MOA, IMHO better than those 2 pea shooters! I also have a .220 Ackley Improved Swift I use on Prairie Dogs, now that one zips out at around 4100 fps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 BMC both , have their place in the cabnet 223/5.56 varments of almost any type , if you want to save the pelts , do NOT use the BT bullets 243 is ok for varments , also the smallest cal , I will recomend for game , the 80 + grain for game I like the 100 and 107 gn CB but I tend to run a 30 cal or bigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 Big Sage, you are a bigger man than I am. I feel the good old 30-06 is big enough for me, and if that can't handle it, neither can I. I gave my heart to .30-06 years ago. But getting back to the two calibers in question, in all honesty they are pretty similar except for bullet diameter, and that ain't much. I was surprised to read that some of the reloading dope, had the .243 at faster than the .223 in a 90 grain bullet. Don't know why that surprised me, but it did. ED: Granted, my knowledge of both calibers is limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 If you're JUST wanting it for varmints and "small game" (I assume you mean smaller than deer) get a .223. If you ever want to shoot something bigger than coyotes I'd get the .243. My cabin rifle at the farm is a little bitty single shot .243. Feels like a BB gun. Skinny little 16, mebbe 18 inch barrel. I thought it might kick being so light, but recoil is no worse if as bad as a lightly loaded shotgun. Nasty round. I rolled a pig about the size of a German shepherd (if that) at 20 yards or so. Hit it broadside, and somehow its guts were sticking out of its back (don't as me, I've never seen anything like it). I was wanting to BBQ it but it was shot up so bad I blew it off. Almost blew it in half. .243 is one of the most popular rounds for deer hunting in Texas. Kinda small for my taste (I'm a .30 cal man too) but it seems to do OK even on our biggest bucks. Logistics of ammo aside, the .243 will do anything the .223 will and then some for general purposes. JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Just the 2 calibers mentioned and for the purpose mentioned, probably go with the .223, cheaper to reload for. .243 will do a better job with the heavier bullets and the .223 will be better with lighter bullets. Flip a coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I went through this a few years ago. I picked a .243 and glad I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 .250-3000, hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagebrush Burns, SASS # 14226 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 For varmints and such, the 223 is likely the better choice, if for no other reason than economics, it is much less expensive to shoot or to load for. Because of heavier bullets (read better ballistic coefficient) the 243 may (or may not) shoot slightly flatter, but until you're shooting past 300 yards not enough to matter. I have used both extensively on prairie dogs and rock chucks and both work just fine. The 243 kicks harder (which matters over 100 or so rounds in a dog town), heats up a barrel much faster, and burns almost twice as much powder. If you want to use the same rifle for deer or antelope the 243 becomes the better choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Correct. Although the original question was for varmints. There are good reasons to have a gun in each caliber. I just have to convince my wife what they are. Correct. Although the original question was for varmints. There are good reasons to have a gun in each caliber. I just have to convince my wife what they are. Agreed. however some other posters seemed to be advocating the .223 for deer sized game - would rather OP did not find out the hard way that the .223 could land him in hot water, (at least in Colorado). Don't know why the quote/multiquote function is not working for me today. BTW the .243 with a light bullet such as the 70 grain Nosler BTHP Match is terrific on varmints and soft skinned critters like coyotes. Out of my Model 100 or 88 it chronographs about 3300 FPS and will devastate 2 milk jugs filled with water and throw shrapnel through another 3 at 300 yards. (about 1690 ft lbs at the muzzle) And while I prefer a .308 for elk I have used a 100 grain .243 bullet at 2800 fps on deer with success. (about 1740 ft lbs at the muzzle) Since I am not a really good long range shooter I limit myself to 250-300 yards as that is the longest range I get to practice at. YMMV compare those energies to a .223 52 grain HP at about 2900 fps - roughly 970 ft lbs at the muzzle or a 63 grain SP (if your gun will shoot it properly) at about 2850 fps - about 1136 ft lbs at the muzzle. another BTW - would appreciate someone checking my math - it has been a long day Regards Gateway Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted September 3, 2013 Author Share Posted September 3, 2013 Well, I would never use a .223 on larger game like deer. I would probably never take a shot over 200 yards and I would probably use the -06 to do it, with a glass eye. I do appreciate your insight and information. But since I was on the brown boot army and issued an .30-06 rifle, I never had an occasion to shoot the M-14 nor the M-16. I am impressed with the .308 cartridge but it is very similar to the -06 that I never saw reason to change. At least not for my purposes. I was never impressed with the 5.56 cartridge for a military rifle, but then again McNamara and his whiz kids didn't ask me. I am sure that there are a lot of "Charlies" that came to appreciate it's lethal power. But I digress: I guess the bottom line is that the 5.56, or more correctly the civilian .223, would be the best for prairie dogs and ground hogs, and the .243 would work for goats and sheep, or a small blacktail. Truth be told, I probably will never find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Slow morning. Which would you prefer for up to 300 yard shooting on varmint or small game? I kinda like the .243 but I don't have one. Maybe I should. ED. The .223 ammo should be more available in normal times however. I was at our local Meijer store yesterday and just took a peek at the ammo section. They had a number of boxes of both .243 and 7mm Rem. Mag. Other than that, they were doing OK on shotgun shells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Mathewson, 37826 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 The 6MM Remington is my .243 rifle round of choice. I also picked the 222 Remington over the .223 Remington. I think this has something more to do more with my personality rather than ballistics. Buff Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I have a 243 my self. I have NO need for a 223 IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I set up a Savage Tactical in .223 for DCM/high power matches and used it for hunting and heavy plinking. Great gun with some limitations. The .243 would be a more definite kill at any range and would be well suited to larger game. I would chose the .223 if I planned to shoot a lot. I would chose the .243 if hunting deer or coyote. I would chose the .243 if varmint hunting was a 20-40 round per day event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Plasters, SASS#60943 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Just for the fun of it, why not toss the venerable .250 Savage (.250-3000) into the fray? I'm happy that I'm not the only one who's still impressed with the 250-3000. I've got two Savage 99s in that caliber and one 243. Planned on using the 250-3000 for my antelope hunt at the end of this week but the old guns aren't co-operating with cycling the rounds or reliably extracting. So the .243 will be the weapon of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted September 4, 2013 Author Share Posted September 4, 2013 Antelope and .243 just seem to go together in my mind. Of course, that is all emotional thinking. I have never hunted antelope nor have I ever hunted with a .243. Guess I have lived a sheltered life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 BMC ya gotta go down and get ya one , LOTS of good cartages listed BUT , for being versitle , the 243 and the 30/06 , are about as good as they come IMO several differant bullets for eather , to taylor to the need at hand CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted September 4, 2013 Author Share Posted September 4, 2013 You are pretty good at spending my money, Chickasaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffield, SASS #23454 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I've lusted for a .243 since I was a teenager, but for some reason every rifle acquisition has been something else - either because of specific need or availability. First rifle I bought when I was eighteen was a tough choice between a Marlin 336 in .30-30 or a Savage 99 in .243. Opened a magazine (Field & Stream?) one afternoon and there was an advertisement for a "special deal" Marlin package with a scope. That did it. Been a good rifle (carbine) but I very quickly came to my senses and ditched the scope in favor of a Lyman receiver and Marble's Sheard front sights. And I still lust for that '99 in .243.... I've got a 99E .243 in good shape. What do you have to trade? Duffield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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