I need good advice on 380 autos

[Don Jorge]

We have a CZ 83 and a CZ 82. One is .380; the other, 9mm Makarov. They are steel, double stack, double action. They have a nice point and feel in the hand. About $250.

The .380 was well regarded in Gun Test.

[EL NEGRO GATO]

Howdy, I carry a Walter PPK in 380, if it was good enough for Bond, James Bond, it's good enough for me

ENG

[ShadowCatcher]

Howdy, I carry a Walter PPK in 380, if it was good enough for Bond, James Bond, it's good enough for me

ENG

It wasn't . . he carried a .32.

 

As for the rest of the discussion - I find that the advent of micro-9mm pistols has, in my opinion, eliminated the need to use a .380 for summer time or deep concealment.

The .380 pistols (except for a select few) are generally blow-back operated, and as such are a mite sharp in the recoil department.

They tend to have heavier recoil springs as a result of this as well, making chambering a round more difficult for some shooters (women and those with arthritis).

 

The .380 ACP round is a fairly good round, in modern loadings, but most .38 special and 9mm loadings far surpass it for effectiveness.

 

Having said all that my son has a Kahr .380 that is amazing - accurate and reliable while you fight your way to your rifle.

I love the Walthers, and the pre-S&W pistols in blue just amaze me for quality and reliability. I'd probably opt for .32 in a PPk though - the gun seems to

just like it better (it was designed around that loading). I've gotten consistently better accuracy and reliability out of .32, not to mention it's such a delight

to shoot for practice. The .380 was always a hand biter!

 

Another great choice is the Colt Government 380 - which uses the browning delayed blow back operation to help keep recoil in hand (bad pun), and is also a

very reliable and accurate little pistol. My only issue with that pistol is that the slide safety does not lock the slide, so in a tight carry holster or other

approach you may find the gun is out of battery and potentially getting lint and dirt into the breech. Not a deal breaker - but it is a potential issue depending

on where you are and how you carry it.

 

Once you go double stack .380 you might as well start looking at bigger calibers in the same volume/weight footprint.

 

I'm a dyed in the wool Kahr fan - love them all steel versions - the K9 and the MK9 specifically.

 

Hopefully you have a range nearby that has gun rentals available - nothing serves to inform the buyer more than handling and shooting the gun.

 

Good luck with your shopping!

 

Shadow Catcher

[Trailboss (Santa) Dave]

I carry a PPK/S and like it.

 

I know the gun will make head shots at 35 yards as I have busted clay targets at that range.

[Desert Pete SASS #42168]

The trigger pull SUCKS on.

Ruger LCP

Keltec .

Body Gard.

Taurus.

 

I Love my Colt Mustang 380 .

1911 style gun with .

A single action trigger .

 

Best 380 ever made IMHO.

 

Ditto on the Taurus trigger. I have a S&W Air Weight in 32 H&R mag that is nearly the perfect carry gun but full power ammo is hard to find so I bought the Taurus. I am now carefully hording my 32 mag ammo. The S&W is that much better than the Taurus.

[Utah Bob #35998]

I like the Colt Mustang .380acp. It was made in both a steel frame and an alloy frame (called the "pocket-lite," I believe). It was also made with an extended grip, to accomodate a larger capacity magazine. The extended grip model is slightly lareger. I have the steel frame, standard grip model and have been very satisfied with it. It looks like a miniature M1911, but the internals are different and it has no grip safety. It has never failed to feed or fire. Shoots jhp and fmj ammo without any issues. It was out of production for a while, but is or was going to be manufactured again.

 

Earlier, Colt made a similar weapon called the "Colt Government Model .380". It is a slightly larger weapon and the one I had (since sold it on the Wire a few years back) was also very reliable.

I love my Govt Model 380. Good gun for someone familiar and competent with the 1911 platform.

[Cat Brules]

I'm kinda biased with the Colt Mustang and the Colt Government .380. AND (off-topic now) the S&W Model 36 Airweight (j-frame revolver).

 

Let me say though, in all fairness, that I don't have experience with the little Ruger and some of the other micro guns. The one I handled felt a bit awkward to me, while the two Colt's weapons felt mor natural .... to me, that is.

 

I still don't know why I sold the Government .380. It was reliable and accurate and very classy in nickel-plated steel with the factory white plastic grips. I miss it.

 

The S&W Model 36 Airweight (shrouded, exposed hammer, 5-rnd, 38 Special), is one I bought my wife in the early 70's when we lived in Long Beach. It got her out of two nasty scrapes that would have gone the other way had she not been carrying the weapon.

 

My opinion is that those two weapons (either of the Colt .380's and the S&W j-frame Airweight), are the best self-defense carry guns around.

 

However, further to that, I believe that the Smith j-frame (steel or alloy frame), with the shrouded hammer, loaded with 4-rnds in the cylinder, hammer down on empty, is the absolute best firearm decision for any person with limited firearms training and experience.

[Chief]

Go with Colt series 80 govt model if you can find one bought two in 86 and kept one in the safe in case my carry broke, sold the safe queen last year, my carry has had a lot of use, 4 times a year qualifing. also use it for fun shooting 1 a month, don't let people tell you it it is under powered, it will handle 115 gr HP very well

[Harvey Mushman]

It wasn't . . he carried a .32.

 

As for the rest of the discussion - I find that the advent of micro-9mm pistols has, in my opinion, eliminated the need to use a .380 for summer time or deep concealment.

The .380 pistols (except for a select few) are generally blow-back operated, and as such are a mite sharp in the recoil department.

They tend to have heavier recoil springs as a result of this as well, making chambering a round more difficult for some shooters (women and those with arthritis).

 

The .380 ACP round is a fairly good round, in modern loadings, but most .38 special and 9mm loadings far surpass it for effectiveness.

 

Having said all that my son has a Kahr .380 that is amazing - accurate and reliable while you fight your way to your rifle.

I love the Walthers, and the pre-S&W pistols in blue just amaze me for quality and reliability. I'd probably opt for .32 in a PPk though - the gun seems to

just like it better (it was designed around that loading). I've gotten consistently better accuracy and reliability out of .32, not to mention it's such a delight

to shoot for practice. The .380 was always a hand biter!

 

Another great choice is the Colt Government 380 - which uses the browning delayed blow back operation to help keep recoil in hand (bad pun), and is also a

very reliable and accurate little pistol. My only issue with that pistol is that the slide safety does not lock the slide, so in a tight carry holster or other

approach you may find the gun is out of battery and potentially getting lint and dirt into the breech. Not a deal breaker - but it is a potential issue depending

on where you are and how you carry it.

 

Once you go double stack .380 you might as well start looking at bigger calibers in the same volume/weight footprint.

 

I'm a dyed in the wool Kahr fan - love them all steel versions - the K9 and the MK9 specifically.

 

Hopefully you have a range nearby that has gun rentals available - nothing serves to inform the buyer more than handling and shooting the gun.

 

Good luck with your shopping!

 

Shadow Catcher

 

 

Agree on the PPK 380 being a hand biter. I have one and it kicks more than any other .380 I've shot.

 

Also agree on the Kahr P380 - GREAT hot summer, smooth shooting concealed carry gun that would suit the OP in quite a few Louisiana summer dress occasions.

 

Not sure of the Louisiana CCW rules, but in CA, we can have 3 guns on the permit. I live in the desert and the P380 is perfect for casual/recreational summer dress. Otherwise it is my Glock 26 (9mm) or 30 (45acp), dress depending.

 

Harvey

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

 

My opinion is that those two weapons (either of the Colt .380's and the S&W j-frame Airweight), are the best self-defense carry guns around.

 

However, further to that, I believe that the Smith j-frame (steel or alloy frame), with the shrouded hammer, loaded with 4-rnds in the cylinder, hammer down on empty, is the absolute best firearm decision for any person with limited firearms training and experience.

There is absolutely no reason to leave the chamber under the hammer empty on the S&W.

 

Back to the original topic, I do agree that the Bersa is a better .380 than the Walther. I owned and sold three PPK/S Walthers and now have a Bersa.

[Mack Hacker, #60477]

S&W made PPK/S works fine for me.

 

I prefer a smaller SA because I will carry it in more situations. I often drop down to a Browning 25acp.

 

A 25 in your pocket will always beat a 45 in the dresser drawer at home.

[Hashknife Cowboy]

I have the small Ruger, good shooter but I settled for the small Sig 9mm model P938. Better gun hands down!

[Utah Bob #35998]

There is absolutely no reason to leave the chamber under the hammer empty on the S&W.

Back to the original topic, I do agree that the Bersa is a better .380 than the Walther. I owned and sold three PPK/S Walthers and now have a Bersa.

I didn't understand that either. I've carried Jframes for years. They aren't a SAA.

As far as the Bersa, a friend got one recently. It seems to be solid and well functioning and accurate. Larger than my 380 Colt but higher capacity mag if that's a concern.

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

Another vote for the Ruger LC380.

 

Very light, very comfortable to both carry and shoot.

 

Not my first choice for a day of plinking, but it's extremely well designed for what it's designed for.

 

And Shadow, Bond switched to the PPK .380 in "Dr No."

[Big Jake1001]

I'm gonna blow you all outta the Water and say a Colt Model M 1908 in .380 auto is to me a perfect pocket pistol. Don't need any new-fangled gun.

I can say mine is 100 % functional and can hit what I aim at. Why mess with perfection. John M Browning knew what he was doing.

 

 

Jake

[ShadowCatcher]

Another vote for the Ruger LC380.

 

Very light, very comfortable to both carry and shoot.

 

Not my first choice for a day of plinking, but it's extremely well designed for what it's designed for.

 

And Shadow, Bond switched to the PPK .380 in "Dr No."

Uh , No. He was given a PPk in 7.65....

 

 

Major Boothroyd:

[to M, referring to Bond's Baretta]

Nice and light... in a lady's handbag.

 

M:

Any comment, 007?

 

James Bond:

I disagree, sir. I've carried the Baretta for ten years, and I've never missed with it.

 

M:

No, but it jameed on you last job, and you spent six months in hospital

in consequence. When you carry a 00 number, you have a license to kill,

not get killed. Furthermore, since I've been head of MI7

 

[sic - MI6]

 

M:

there's been a forty percent drop in casualties, and I want to keep it

that way. From now on you carry the Walther... unless you'd rather

return to standard intelligence duties.

 

James Bond:

No sir,I would not.

 

M:

[to Boothroyd]

Show him, Armourer.

 

Major Boothroyd:

[to Bond]

Walther PPK, 7.65 millimeter, with a delivery like a brick through a plate-glass window. The American CIA swear by them.

 

 

 

 

But that's okay - they say memory is the second thing to go . . . .

 

SC

[Chris_Tombstone_Holliday]

There are 37 pages on 380 autos for sale on Gunbroker. I would value everyone's opinions on the various models and what ya'll would suggest for pocket carry in Louisiana's hot weather. Irish Pat, sass 19486

 

I live in Tampa, so I don't wear all that much most of the time. Thus, I carry a Ruger LCP in .380 in my pocket. I can fit it in shorts inside a pocket holster with no issues.

[ORNERY OAF]

i agree with one of the previous posters, with the new pocket 9mms out now, no need to ever carry the anemic little 380....bring enough gun(or as much as you can at the time)...

 

OO

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Ian Fleming didn't know much about guns.. As you can tell from the video clip.

 

One of his (Ian's) friends was always trying to get him to have Bond upgrade to at least a 38 Special. But since he thought the 32 hit like a brick . . .

 

But a gun in the pocket is better than the one left in the drawer.

[Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life]

SIG P230 or SIG P232 would be my first choice, but in an IWB or OWB holster. They are a little heavy for pocket carry, but it can be done.

 

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

Have a taurus 92 I know it is a 9mm vs 380 but it eats everything I have ever fed it, round nose, various hollow points, TC Cast, Copper washed etc. On top of that shoots where the sights are lined up on. Only problem I have ever had with the gun is it did not cost enough to have any snob appeal.

[J. Frank Norfleet]

Most people pick a carry pistol because it is light and doesn't inconvenience them. What you need is reality. When you shop for a concealed carry pistol you need to find some one like Bubba to go with you. As a toddler bubba pulled the wings off of flies and watched them expire slowly in his play pen. As a teenager he pushed you down and took your lunch money and anything else he wanted. Grown Bubba now weighs 350 pounds and hasn't worked in years, he doesn't have to. High on crack Bubba feels no pain. Have the clerk set out the 380, 9mm, .40 and 45. Ask yourself what will stop Bubba, not which will be easy to carry. What you don't want is for your last dying act on this earth to be emptying a mag of 380 into Bubba before he stomped you into the sidewalk.

[ShadowCatcher]

Ian Fleming didn't know much about guns.. As you can tell from the video clip.

 

One of his (Ian's) friends was always trying to get him to have Bond upgrade to at least a 38 Special. But since he thought the 32 hit like a brick . . .

 

But a gun in the pocket is better than the one left in the drawer.

The script producers weren't much better either. If I recall the book correctly Bond had two weapons to use in Dr. No, he had his Walther .32 and

also a Colt .38 Detective for when higher power was needed. I'd have to go back and re-read to be sure but I do remember that as sticking out

because it was different than the cinematography universe.

 

I do like the Walther in .32, it's a nice shooting pistol, and much easier to master than the hand biter of a .380.

 

I've carried them for years, and have owned most every configuration of the Walther PP series over the last 40 years or so,

but along came two things - Kahr pistols, and the realization that you dress to conceal the gun, not picking a gun

just for convenience. Carrying a gun isn't always convenient, but if it isn't effective and reliable it's also pointless.

 

I'd prefer a .45 but my back get's a mite Balky - even with serious high quality leather.

 

There are some new micro-.45's though that might just work out.

 

For now I have a few 9mm's. and want a Kahr MK for deeper concealment . . but heck - if Global Weather change is

leading us into an ice age it will be easy to hide any gun under the trench coats and fur coats we're all going to need!

 

SC

 

BTW - more video fun:

[Cowboy Junky]

Another vote for the Khar P380. That guns shoots like a big gun. I took it to the club and was amazed how well it shot for a pocket gun and it is very reliable after the 200 shot break in period. I had about 3 issues in the first 50-60 rounds and now it works flawlessly. It is the same size as the Kel-Tec or LCP but I kept hitting the mag release on the Kel-Tec carrying it in my back pocket.

 

Here is one review.........he starts laughing when he see's how well it shoots.....I had the same reaction.

 

 

 

PS Buffalo Bore has many 380 +P rounds that are more stout than people think. They offer many great choices in that round. I use the 100 grain cast and it shoots 1061FPS from a Kel-Tec......not a 6 inch test gun.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

First, please do not fall the the old myth that the 45 is a man-stopping load. No practical hand gun round is.

 

Yes, the 9mm is better than the 380. And the 40 is a little better than that, and the 45 a little better as well. But expect to have to empty any handgun to stop a determined foe. Even if they are stone sober.

 

I'm not sure if you can access this link, but it explains why one cop found that 45 rounds of 45 ACP was not enough.

 

33 rounds of 45 acp BARELY ENOUGH

 

Of course he was facing only one determined attacker at the time...

And he did hit the guy the guy with 14 rounds - six of which were supposedly fatal. But the guy kept fighting until he hit him 3 more times - in the head. So he hit him for a total of 17 rounds!

 

Sort of surprising, but he then switched to 9 mm, since it is only slightly less effective but easier to carry more rounds.

 

I wish I had the old article that was written about the war with the Moro's in the Philippines. This is always used to show that the 38 Special was inadequate. And it was. They would empty their revolvers into the guy and still get cut up and likely die. So they switched to the 45 Colt like the cowboys used. The part we forget or were not taught is the end result.

They would empty their 45 revolver into the guy and still get cut up and likely killed.

 

Even the Krag rifle was not reliable as a stopper. Only the 12 gauge slug or 00 buck - and that often took two rounds....

[ShadowCatcher]

First, please do not fall the the old myth that the 45 is a man-stopping load. No practical hand gun round is.

 

<SNIP>

 

Even the Krag rifle was not reliable as a stopper. Only the 12 gauge slug or 00 buck - and that often took two rounds....

You make a very important and often overlooked point. Handgun stopping power is often an oxymoron.

 

They have limited efficacy, are hard to use accurately under extreme duress (if a gun fight for your own

life isn't duress, you need a better dictionary), and they are not always guaranteed even if you are

bullseye shooter accurate!

 

12 gauge shotguns are much more effective - but awfully hard to conceal. Crew served weapons tend

to be much more convincing, and I find that anything over 250KT works real convincingly!

 

Finding that my neighbors object to my use of tactical nukes for self protection, I find an accurate 9mm or .45

to be the best of a limited number of choices. If nothing else they enable me to fight my way to my rifle.

 

I really want a phaser that i can set on "11", but until then I like my Kahrs, my HP and my Colt 1911.

It may not be a dragon slayer, but it works far better than a scowl and a sternly worded rebuke!

 

The real message there though is that tactics are real important too. You shouldn't be surprised into a gun fight,

and you shouldn't be caught in a stand and deliver scenario if you can at all avoid it. Even a marginally effective

handgun can be a life saver if you also utilize the cover and protection your environment can offer. There is more

to the fight then just pulling the trigger on a gun. That topic can take pages of discussion, and many LEO's and

experienced military men here have their own opinions and experiences to share as well.

 

One thing most will agree on is: you do need to have a gun you trust and in a loading/caliber you trust.

 

SC

[Deputy Spenser Hawk]

As our fantastic firearms instructor says...A pistol is a defensive weapon, no matter the caliber. The only reason you carry a pistol is to help you fight to get to a rifle.

 

I did get to shoot and qualify with the Diamondback DB 380 this after noon. One stove pipe (first round)I blame on me for not holding it tighter. After that, perfection. 19 rounds of hardd ball and then 5 rounds of PMC Star Fire to verify feeding. It is a little stout in the hannd being a small gun, but I like it. DSH

[Krazy Kajun]

Does anyone know if a .380 that is striker fired? I wonder if that would have less recoil than the blow back action of my S&W BG 380

[J. Frank Norfleet]

Kahr is striker fired.

l

[ShadowCatcher]

Does anyone know if a .380 that is striker fired? I wonder if that would have less recoil than the blow back action of my S&W BG 380

The striker firing design doesn't have any meaningful effect on recoil, only on how the firing pin is moved to strike the primer.

In fact one might surmise that the hammer activated firing mechanism might have less perceived recoil as the energy spent

moving the slide back also gets translated into rotational energy to move the hammer back and compress the spring in the frame

as it cocks the pistol. This can allow for a reduced weight recoil spring as the mainspring becomes part of the recoil control

system.

 

What makes the difference in felt recoil (along with many ergonomic factors) is whether the slide cycling is controlled only by

a spring or whether there is a delayed blow back mechanism such as a moving barrel as in the Colt Government series or the Kahr.

 

The moving barrel style action imparts a slower impulse to the hand as the recoil is operating the mechanism, dragging the barrel back

a short distance and then separating the barrel from the slide to effect ejection and reloading. This spreads out the otherwise sharp

recoil typically felt in spring operated blow back pistols. The HK P7 series added a gas port and tubes to help delay the blowback

effect, until chamber pressure reduced enough to keep it in the realm of comfortable, and to use a recoil spring that could be operated

by the average shooter. The spring power to otherwise operate a blow back 9mm is horrendous! See the Astra pistols of the 50's.

 

The total free recoil of either style gun is dictated by the mass of the gun and the force of the load fired, but the perceived recoil is

affected by the method of cycling the ammunition (it spreads it out over a longer time in milliseconds), as well as things like bore height

above grip, shape and contour of the grips, mass of the slide versus the handgun frame, etc.

 

Another significant part of the equation is "how do I feel about it?". Some folks just hate recoil, others ignore it or their hand geometry doesn't

react the same way so they're not effected. Perceived recoil is much harder to deal with because it's about what one perceives, not what

one measures in a laboratory.

 

Some times life is easier if you just stay with a Colt SAA in .45.

 

Shadow Catcher

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Great explanation, Shadow Catcher!!

[Buffalo Bruce, SASS #58153]

Irish Pat: You have a lot of good advice, but I'll add my two cents. I bought a PPK/S (German) in 1967 to carry as a backup while in uniform as a law dawg. Will never part with it. Not a big fan of small guns, but great to carry, very reliable and amasingly accurate. Many thousands of rounds through it. Paid 97.00 for it-still have the box. Sould have bought a box car full of them. Buffalo Bruce

[Krazy Kajun]

I understand about felt recoil...the reason I am asking about striker fired .380 is I don't particularly care for the long heavy DA trigger pull and was looking for something with a nicer trigger. The trigger pull is stiff and long on the S&G BG .380 that I currently have and most times it pulls me off target. The striker fire mechanism on my Glocks do not cause that....not that I am a great shot or anything but I am much more consistently on target my Glock than my .380.

[ShadowCatcher]

I understand about felt recoil...the reason I am asking about striker fired .380 is I don't particularly care for the long heavy DA trigger pull and was looking for something with a nicer trigger. The trigger pull is stiff and long on the S&G BG .380 that I currently have and most times it pulls me off target. The striker fire mechanism on my Glocks do not cause that....not that I am a great shot or anything but I am much more consistently on target my Glock than my .380.

Howdy KK,

 

Got it! I agree - striker fired pistols are easier to keep on target than a double action trigger in most semi-auto pistols.

 

The single action trigger is easiest of all - gotta love a tuned 1911!

Few things are as smooth as a tuned Python or S&W though - it's just longer and heavier!

 

The Glock and the Kahr are both striker fired, a sort of halfway solution to the two above styles of triggers. Several other new

gen pistols have gone that way as well - Glock, S&W has a couple, and the Springfield XDS and Ruger SR series.

 

I love the tuned triggers on my HP and 1911 - but I carry my Kahr with it's slightly longer and heavier trigger (6-7 lbs)

with no problem and no fear of an early discharge - when you pull that trigger it takes a little more effort than a bump

or a start, but it's smooth enough that you always get a surprise break!

 

You're right, in general a striker style action will be easier to operate smoothly than a double action trigger, unless

the gun is well tuned and the trigger pull is light enough. Then the follow on shots in single action will give an advantage

to the shooter - at paper targets.

 

My personal experience is that the Kahr trigger in their steel guns is very nice, they offered a NY trigger for a while,

but I don't see the need for it. It is smooth and light enough that you have no trouble activating it without pushing the gun

off target. It can be smoothed out a bit by a gunsmith, but for the same cost in practice ammo you can shoot it into

smoothness!

 

The polymer guns always bite my finger!! They know that in my heart of hearts I think Tupperware is for parties,

not guns!

 

Any of the modern striker fired pistols will be a better shooter as far as trigger control for precision shooting, compared to a

heavy double action pistol.

 

Hope this helps . . .

 

Shadow Catcher

[Krazy Kajun]

Thanks Shadow Catcher. I'm looking for a "pocket pistol" that is striker fired....in .380. So far the only striker fired .380 that I've seen on this thread is the Kahr 380. Are there any others?