Is it too early to talk trash about college football?

[J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE]

That would take a lot of flying Harvey!

 

I disagree-but since I can't make the changes you want to see, I guess we'll let history tell us the truth

[Harvey Mushman]

I agree on the flying Mark, but it could be done for one or two non-conference games/yr. Only a couple do it now. Otherwise, just playing a stronger non-conference schedule would help. BTW, I was born in Alabama

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

What is going on over in the Big 12 with Texas Tech?

[Calico Mary]

They're losing.....

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Really?

 

Why is that, do you suppose?

 

Maybe it is becaue Kansas State has more points on the board?

 

 

That wasn't nice. Thank you for the update.

 

49/26 Final.

[Uno Mas SASS #80082]

USC over the California Cuddly Commie Bears: 62 - 28 at Beserkeley.

 

Next Sat, The Farm at the Coliseum, for a chance at the Rose Bowl.

 

FightON!!!

[Blackwater 53393]

When Bama stops playing the little sisters of the poor for non-league games, the'll have my respect. Till then - no.

 

They would never make it thru a pac 12 season undefeated.

 

I'd like to see alot more Pac12-SEC non-conference games in the future. Would have me watchin'.

 

Harvey!! The problem is, most of the college football teams, including ALL of the " PAC 12", look like the Little Sisters of the Poor when they play Alabama. And if it ain't Alabama, it's LSU, or Auburn, or Florida for the past decade.

 

Last year Michigan wanted Alabama. They got what they wanted and didn't like the results. Notre Dame wanted Bama, They got 'em too, and the results were NOT to the Irish' liking. Oregon wanted them two years ago. They learned to be very careful of what they wish for.

 

The greatest danger to the top echelon SEC teams is other SEC teams!! The SEC has knocked itself out of more championships in the last twenty years than all the other conferences combined.

[Harvey Mushman]

Only because of the BCS formulas and weak non-conference games. Don't get me wrong, they are a great team, but they always have at least two or three real non-conference breathers. And they are my home state team that I have cheered for years. Their scheduling (edit corrected) is simply embarassing for a top echelon team - have SOME pride!

 

I'll be on the edge of my seat with concern for the Crimson Tide on Nov 23rd - Chattanooga?!?!? Give me a break.

[Yul Lose]

I believe the Tide QB should get very serious consideration for the Heisman trophy. Johnny Football is fun to watch, but MaCarron is a much more deliberate, mental student of the game, IMHO of course.

[Harvey Mushman]

Agreed on MacCarron (sp?) he is a winner - maybe a Tom Brady type, but with more class.

 

 

More on SEC "Power Scheduling" 2013:

 

Auburn: Arkansas State, W. Carolina, Florida ATL.

LSU: UAB, Kent State, Furman.

 

Impressive.

 

At least Alabama seems to be trying to upgrade thier schedule (by SEC standards) - credit to them.

 

BTW, Oregon also follows the same pattern - Nichols State this year?!?!? But then again they always blow a big one in the last 25% of the year. Had hoped the new coach would have brought more character to them.

[Blackwater 53393]

One thing that escapes observation here, is that ALL upper level teams are "encouraged" to schedule what many consider lesser or weaker programs.

 

UAB, Florida ATL, and Kent State are perenial powerhouses in their own conferences. These programs sometimes receive half of their athletic department's income from these "mismatch" games, and in some instances, like Middle Tennessee State University, their programs flourish from the higher level of competition and they move into that upper level of competition themselves.

 

And it's always fun when the little guy gives Goliath what for!!

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

AND NOBODY HAS MENTIONED

 

SLIPPERY ROCK!

 

Dang Gannon!

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

Only because of the BCS formulas and weak non-conference games. Don't get me wrong, they are a great team, but they always have at least two or three real non-conference breathers. And they are my home state team that I have cheered for years. Their scheduling (edit corrected) is simply embarassing for a top echelon team - have SOME pride!

 

I'll be on the edge of my seat with concern for the Crimson Tide on Nov 23rd - Chattanooga?!?!? Give me a break.

 

Instead of crying about the non conference games, look at their IN CONFERENCE schedule.

 

Unlike all the other conferences, there are more than one or two teams decent enough to be ranked in the Top 25 in the SEC. SEC teams don't need to go out of conference to face challenging opponents. We don't have 3 or 4 Murray State style traditional cellar dweller/whipping boys and our conference isn't made up of preferred homecoming opponents like LA Tech. The problem isn't the SEC's slack non conference schedule. What ought to be the issue is that everybody else needs to step up their programs so more of their in conference teams are as competitive.

[J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE]

Alabama's weak schedule started with the Kick Off Classic scheduled 5 years in advance. Va Tech is better than their record, but who knew 5 years ago what their skill level would be? They then went up against Texas A&M in the second game of the season while. Alabama has progressed this season as the new starters have learned to play together. Yes, our schedule had a weak streak in it, but LSU is a solid opponent, Auburn is a solid opponent and whoever wins the SEC east is likely to be a top 10 team. So Alabama has to finish the season strong to get where they hope to be.

 

Blackwater is correct, playing small schools is a way to not only get an easy win, it helps the small programs with money and Alabama with recruiting;

 

I'd love to see Alabama and Oregon swap schedules for a year-I think the outcome would be that the PAC 12 would be screaming to get Oregon back

[Harvey Mushman]

This is what I really like about college football. The passion and love for the sport by the players, MOST of whom have not yet been corrupted by the $$, and the local fans who connect to their alma maters and local representation.

 

Regarding PAC 12 vs SEC - if you check the head-head record since 2000, it is pretty even (within one game, either way, I'm not sure), even given the SEC run of the last few years (since the time zone difference does not matter as much on the field). They are easily the strongest two conferences.

 

However, the PAC 12 plays much more BCS schools on average in their non-conference games (compared to the second and third tier teams the C=SEC seems to schedule - see my post above for current examples).. That provides a heck of a lot less stress, and wear and tear on the teams.

 

All that being said, I would still like to see more head-head PAC 12- SEC. Let's settle it on the field - I love great football!

[Blackwater 53393]

Yes! The PAC12 usually picks up a struggling SEC team (Oregon vs. Tennessee) which helps even the balance sheet a little, but when the rubber meets the road in big and post-season games, the top SEC teams almost invariably, the last decade or so, come out on top. Add to that the fact that the lower half of the PAC12 is much like these Chattanoogas and UABs and worse and you can get the impression that the SEC might play a weaker, less "stressful" schedule. Go tell it to Georgia right after they faced Vanderbilt, South Carolina, and Tennessee. Tell it to Alabama after they've faced LSU, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, and Auburn in the same regular season.

 

A&M and Mizzou didn't ask to join the SEC because they thought it was a weak conference. They joined because they knew that week in and week out that they would face the stiffest competition. An old coach I had in high school who won football championships in two different states during his career, still reminds me that if you want your game to improve, take on better competition.

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

AND NOBODY HAS MENTIONED

 

SLIPPERY ROCK!

 

Dang Gannon!

I know a guy that's from up that way and he's a Cal Vulcans alumni. He got me into watching the conference about 5 years ago.

 

Slippery Rock's only got 1 loss (8-1) and been blowing folks out by 20 or more except for week before last and U Cal (PA), they won 35-17. A tight game in that case doesn't surprise me. U Cal (PA) has been one of the dominant powers in the conference over the last few years and they seem to play The Rock tough no matter what. I see it kind of like Miss State or Vandy playing Alabama. They are currently ranked #4 in their Super region (D2 has a playoff system) and 14th, 15th or 20th in the country depending on which poll you look at. Their QB Barksdale and a Senior linebacker, Dean, were both Player of the Week last week, too.

 

It's overdue with Barksdale. He's had 3 400 yard+ games, thrown for 28 TD's (only 13 INT's), is 214/364 (58,79% completion) for over 3300 yards and has 4 rushing TD and 349 yards on the ground.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

According to the stats, they look like the real thing. Only loss is to Gannon.

Scores are impressive.

[Harvey Mushman]

Yes! The PAC12 usually picks up a struggling SEC team (Oregon vs. Tennessee) which helps even the balance sheet a little, but when the rubber meets the road in big and post-season games, the top SEC teams almost invariably, the last decade or so, come out on top. Add to that the fact that the lower half of the PAC12 is much like these Chattanoogas and UABs and worse and you can get the impression that the SEC might play a weaker, less "stressful" schedule. Go tell it to Georgia right after they faced Vanderbilt, South Carolina, and Tennessee. Tell it to Alabama after they've faced LSU, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, and Auburn in the same regular season.

 

A&M and Mizzou didn't ask to join the SEC because they thought it was a weak conference. They joined because they knew that week in and week out that they would face the stiffest competition. An old coach I had in high school who won football championships in two different states during his career, still reminds me that if you want your game to improve, take on better competition.

Exactly!!!! You made my point, thank you.

 

Yea, the PAC 12 goes out of it's way to read their infallible crystlall ball and schedule several years in advance those SEC teams that seem to be weak, like Tennessee - a traditional SEC top tier team. I certainly don't remember the PAC 12 teams scheduling Vandrebuilt or Kentucky, just for example.

 

If you take a look at this year, you will find that the PAC 12 doormats have done pretty well out of conference, and it is generally recognized that they are the two top conferences, overall.

 

What the heck is wrong with more FTF scheduling? SEC afraid? - their nonconference schedule sure seems to say so. Just because they think their in-conference schedule is the toughest? That is called drinking you own coolaid. Prove it against all comers.

 

Again, this is what I love about college football - can't wait for the playoff system which hopefully will eliminate the bias. We will see!

 

Harvey

[Blackwater 53393]

PAC12 teams don't schedule Vanderbilt or Kentucky because there is no MONEY in it for them usually. Tennesse was a joking example. I seem to remember them kicking USC around a few years ago, but that is old past history. Recent post season records indicate that the SEC puts its football where its mouth is. In recent years they have placed as many as ten teams in post season play, (where the money is) and have a better than even winning record. Even in a "down year" a couple of years ago, the SEC placed seven teams in post season play, AND won the national championship.

 

I don't recall. Who besides Oregon from the PAC12 has sceduled another SEC team? And I think maybe Tennessee had as much to do with that scheduling and maybe more!!

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Wonder what USC is going to do against Stanford?

 

The tree looked pretty impressive against the ducks.

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

LSU opened the 2011 season with Oregon. It didn't turn out as well as the Ducks thought it would since it was 40-27 LSU.

 

The National Championship game is #1 versus #2 and has been since 1992.

 

Since 1998, there's been a PAC 12 team in the National Championship game exactly 3 times (USC twice and Oregon once). Their record is 1-2 with the 1 win vacated.

 

Since 1998, there have been a SEC team in the National Championship game 10 times split between 5 different teams (Alabama 3 times, LSU 3 times, Florida 2 times, Auburn 1 time, Tennessee 1 time). Their record is 9-1 with the 1 loss being when 2 SEC teams (Alabama and LSU) were ranked #1 and 2 and played each other for the National Championship.

 

If you want to go all the way back to 1992, the SEC has 4 more appearances (1 Alabama, 2 Florida and 1 Tennessee) and were 2-2 between '92 and '98. That give the SEC a record in just National Championship Games over a span of 20 years of 11-3.

 

The PAC 12 had no appearances between '92 and '.98

 

Seems to me the SEC has this whole 'upping their game' thing down pat. Maybe if the PAC 18 (or however many teams there are in the conference-this year) upped their quality of play across the board like the SEC has, then they wouldn't have to go out of conference to find quality opponents.

 

If the SEC was so overrated in the polls, then wouldn't they have more losses in the National Championship game? The only loss in a NC game the SEC has had since 1998 was when 2 SEC teams played each other.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Jawja Tech goes up against Clemson at 7:30 or 1930 hours EST.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

One minute and 42 seconds into the game and Clemson scores a field goal.

[Harvey Mushman]

John,

 

Under the BCS the two teams in the championship series has been subject to the complex computer and opinion poll factors (and changed every year as outrageous outcomes ensued)- that isPRECISELY why it is about to be dead.

 

I could list chapter and verse on this (as you did, also cherry picking) that would pretty much duplicate the 60s/70s/80s media biases that often favored the Big Ten (sometimes the SWC, or Big Eight). Yet still, the Big 10 cahmp came west for the Rose bowl and more often got their heinies kicked.

 

The whole point here is that scheduling 2-3 sub BCS level teams (an SEC norm under the BCS system) will no longer cut it. It will be played out on the field.

 

Again, my position is that the two best conferences (currently), play each other more - at least it would get some in the central and eastern time zones to stay up fianlly actually see the teams they discount against teams that they are familiar with to gauge the quality, in some real quantity. The second option would be for the SEC to step up to the plate and quit playing MULTIPLE second and third tier division team to pad their records and avoid injuries.

 

I'm done - except for watching and simply enjoying the spectacle of good college football, whichever way it plays out!

 

Harvey
BTW, My Team is Navy. I was born in AL (and still root for them, jsut embarrassed by SEC scheduling under the BCS), and have lived in seven states all around the country, east west, north south. As a dispassionate observer, there is a bias.

[Blackwater 53393]

Hey Harvey!

 

The Rose Bowl thing was a covenant between the PAC- whatever and the Big- I think it was eight back then. I remember Rose Bowls as far back as 1960, long before the BCS and the midwest teams gave as good as they got for the most part. The Sugar, Orange, and Cotton Bowls made up the rest of the Big Four Bowls, all played on New Year's Day. Each one was loosely bound to a similar covenant. Then you had the Liberty and Tangerine Bowls as the second tier, kind of like consolation games, for the teams that didn't rise all of the way to the top.

 

All of the teams back then scheduled what you're calling second tier, breather game, teams. They ALL still do!! This includes the Big 10, Big 12, PAC 12 and the SEC.

 

The new system we are about to embark on is really only slightly better than anything in the last fifty years. Until a true, probably thirty-two team, sceded, bracket style tournament is instituted, there will always be some team or conference shouting "Foul!"

 

Teams would play eight conference games and then the teams from each conference with the best records would advance to tournament play. The remaining teams would play interconference games to decide the conference scedings for the next year. Can you hear the howls from those who had one less win but played a tougher schedule? Can you hear the griping from non-conference teams who played well but were excluded from "post season" play because of the impression that they were not top tier programs?? Even with an at large spot or spots made available to independants and smaller conferences, you're going to have at least a third of the top 125 unhappy!

 

I'm with you to a point, but you can bet the farm that there will be new wrinkles and new gripes with whatever new system is instituted, when one or another of the conferences feels slighted. And the fans of those teams and conferences will be just as dissatisfied.

 

I still think that those "second tier" teams and programs will suffer more and find it harder to join the elite programs if the "breather" games that everybody plays are discontinued.

 

And I'm mostly a Vanderbilt fan, one of those teams that has been a door mat in their conference and a "breather" game for many years. They have taken those "breather game" poundings for years to get into their current, more respected, "might take your top tier team where they don't want to go" status. Yeah! They're in the toughest conference in the nation. They're also the smallest program in that conference and one of the smallest nationwide in "major college sports". They are also a private school. Kind of gives a different perspective of those "breather" games.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Looks like USC stubbed Stanford's toe.

 

Kicked a field goal with 43 seconds on the clock.

[Uno Mas SASS #80082]

Wholly Carp!!!

Stanfurd: 17 - USC 20!!!

 

FightON!!!

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Easy Uno!

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

Wholly Carp!!!

Stanfurd: 17 - USC 20!!!

 

 

FightON!!!

By God maybe there are back.

[Uno Mas SASS #80082]

It's OK, Badg: I've broken out the rum. I'll be completely harmless pretty soon.

 

And Sage... Never count the Trojans out!

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Just don't break anything, at least not anything impotent, er important.

[Blackwater 53393]

Commodores 22 Kentucky 6. Anchor Down!!! They're bowl eligible for the third year in a row!!

[Uno Mas SASS #80082]

Hey Badg, how's my second favorite team, Slippery Rock, doing?

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Hey Badg, how's my second favorite team, Slippery Rock, doing?

Well, they slipped yesterday, to an overall yearly run of 9 wins and 2 losses.

Lost to Bloomsburg in the PSAC championship game. Score 38/42.

 

Of course they were playing away, and there has to be at least one looser in a game.