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Straightened Trigger Suggestion


Hipshot SASS#7

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The RO Committee does not make rules, however, they are tasked with clarifying and interpreting the
rules as written sometimes taking into account the original intent of the rules. In the case of straightening a trigger, the Committee determined that it is NOT allowed under the current rules. They did not state that the modification would not be approved if the proper application was submitted. BUT, approval cannot come from the RO Committee. It would require a change in the Rules, and that approval must come from the TGs.

No one on the RO Committee actually objects to the modification for all the reasons that have been argued in favor if the modification, but they do object to the fact that approval was not solicited in a timely manner.

The RO Committee feels that approval of this particular modification will be approved through the proper process.

Enforcement of this particular rule will be at the discretion of each match director until such time as it comes before the TGs for a vote.

Hipshot SASS#7



 



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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

Enforcement of this particular rule will be at the discretion of each match director until such time as it comes before the TGs for a vote.

Hipshot SASS#7

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Hipshot, that's great that the Match Directors now have an option. Good Luck :)

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

Thanks for the update.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

So I am taking it that it IS going to be on the agenda for this year???

 

Do I need to be calling all my TG's and bug them about getting it on. Or is it to late

to get it on for this year??

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

I wonder what criteria (and what pressure they get) the TG's are use to determine whether to approve or disapprove such modifications? I imagine that modifications such as this one are championed by a tiny few of SASS's overall members. Once these things are approved, it generates another "must have" aftermarket part to prop up a sagging business in such things.

 

Personally, I believe that the membership and SASS overall, needs such a modification about as much as a pig needs side pockets.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

I wonder what criteria (and what pressure they get) the TG's are use to determine whether to approve or disapprove such modifications? I imagine that modifications such as this one are championed by a tiny few of SASS's overall members. Once these things are approved, it generates another "must have" aftermarket part to prop up a sagging business in such things.

 

Personally, I believe that the membership and SASS overall, needs such a modification about as much as a pig needs side pockets.

 

This modification has already been done on hundreds if not thousands of rifles. This conversation didn't concern a drop in part at its inception. The origial topic concerned altered triggers in 1873/1866 rifles. Slicks aftermarket trigger was mentioned during the discussion and seemed to move to the forefront.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

I wonder what criteria (and what pressure they get) the TG's are use to determine whether to approve or disapprove such modifications? I imagine that modifications such as this one are championed by a tiny few of SASS's overall members. Once these things are approved, it generates another "must have" aftermarket part to prop up a sagging business in such things.

 

Personally, I believe that the membership and SASS overall, needs such a modification about as much as a pig needs side pockets.

TG's are supposed to vote as their club that that they represents wishes them to.
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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

Any way they could tack on FCGF to this ruling, kinda like congress adds non-relevant items to their legislation? :P

 

CR

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

Any way they could tack on FCGF to this ruling,...

 

CR

 

Ditto that :D

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

Not to cloud the issue and it may not impact this subject matter, but I seem to recall that the Colt Paterson revolver had a fairly straight trigger, heck it was a drop down version. I wonder what committe okayed the bending of that trigger on future models?

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

I wonder what criteria (and what pressure they get) the TG's are use to determine whether to approve or disapprove such modifications? I imagine that modifications such as this one are championed by a tiny few of SASS's overall members. Once these things are approved, it generates another "must have" aftermarket part to prop up a sagging business in such things.

 

Personally, I believe that the membership and SASS overall, needs such a modification about as much as a pig needs side pockets.

 

They are only under the pressure that there club member put them under. And then vote accordingly.

If you don't want it. Just ask you TG to vote no. And those that do will ask there to vote yes. It's just that simple.

 

 

 

 

TG's are supposed to vote as their club that that they represents wishes them to.

 

 

+1

I will let my TG's know my feelings. And ASK the other club members do the same.

And hope that the clubs TG votes the way the CLUB wants them to.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

If it comes to vote of the TG's I will tell all of the TG's at the clubs I belong to that I am in favor of it. I see no real advantage, nor any harm. That was never the reason for bringing it up. It was because it seemed to be external work that was outside the scope of what was allowable in the rules.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

If it comes to vote of the TG's I will tell all of the TG's at the clubs I belong to that I am in favor of it. I see no real advantage, nor any harm. That was never the reason for bringing it up. It was because it seemed to be external work that was outside the scope of what was allowable in the rules.

 

 

Goody. I am glad you did.

As I had no idea that it was not within the rules.

And we believe in going by those set of rules.

So even though I was arguing that I thought it was legal.

I am glad it came up and that we can get it done. One way or the other.

 

Just that now I got to find someone to change ours back. Which is no big deal if you know what you are doing.

But I don't trust myself to do it. :huh:

Will save it until we know how it ends up.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

Yeah, I read the entire, earlier topic regarding this issue and I understand that a number (I would be surprised to find that number to be "thousands") of members have performed (or had it done) this modification in the past. Turns out it is illegal, at least for now.

 

Also, I recognize that the role of the Territorial Governors is to represent the wishes of their clubs as a whole. However, I wonder if all the members of each club are in the loop about the matters the TG's will consider and vote on? My guess is "No." I think the TG's are lobbied by a few interested members about things such as rules changes (including modifications such as this one) and the majority of the club's members are blissfully unaware of such things.

 

An ideal world would have each club poll their membership the vote results tallied and the TG sent on his way with instructions to vote as the majority of his club's members instruct. Plus, each TG's voting record should be made public. But we know that's an ideal world.

 

These things progress the way a lot of things do, until the original intent of governing standards begin to resemble something other than original intent.

 

It will be interesting to see how this particular issue shakes out. I have my opinion about it, which I know many do not share, but it is nice to be able to discuss such issues here.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

The Colt Patterson revolver. As memory serves, it did have more or less of a straight trigger that folded forward and up and no trigger guard. I haven't even seen in person or handled one of the reproductions, to say nothing of an original.

 

I wonder if anyone has used a pair of those reproduction Pattersons in match shooting?

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

Yeah, I read the entire, earlier topic regarding this issue and I understand that a number (I would be surprised to find that number to be "thousands") of members have performed (or had it done) this modification in the past. Turns out it is illegal, at least for now.

 

Also, I recognize that the role of the Territorial Governors is to represent the wishes of their clubs as a whole. However, I wonder if all the members of each club are in the loop about the matters the TG's will consider and vote on? My guess is "No." I think the TG's are lobbied by a few interested members about things such as rules changes (including modifications such as this one) and the majority of the club's members are blissfully unaware of such things.

 

An ideal world would have each club poll their membership the vote results tallied and the TG sent on his way with instructions to vote as the majority of his club's members instruct. Plus, each TG's voting record should be made public. But we know that's an ideal world.

 

These things progress the way a lot of things do, until the original intent of governing standards begin to resemble something other than original intent.

 

It will be interesting to see how this particular issue shakes out. I have my opinion about it, which I know many do not share, but it is nice to be able to discuss such issues here.

 

 

Isn't that the way most things that get voted on go. Everywhere and pretty much everything.

Those that care about something lets it be known.

Those that don't care? Well. they just don't care. I have been in clubs where the TG sent out a survey to every club

member on the agenda items.

Have been in clubs that have a meeting after the match and talk and vote on what they want to TG to do.

Also been in clubs that you never hear anything about anything.

 

I normally keep track about what is getting voted on. And if I have stronger feelings on some things. I be sure and

let the TG know about it. Even before they bring it up.

 

But then. That is the way pretty much all things that get voted on goes. Other agenda items will have there backers talking

to the TG's about that. Same as any other agenda item.

 

This one is no different than any other.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

The Colt Patterson revolver. As memory serves, it did have more or less of a straight trigger that folded forward and up and no trigger guard. I haven't even seen in person or handled one of the reproductions, to say nothing of an original.

 

I wonder if anyone has used a pair of those reproduction Pattersons in match shooting?

 

I have shot one a few years ago - the reproduction Paterson is true to the originals with a straight trigger.

 

http://www.pietta.us/products/Muzzleloadinguns/Paterson/gallery/Paterson_01.html

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

The Patterson is totally legal. At issue is not whether it is legal to shoot a gun with a straight trigger. The issue is whether it is legal to STRAIGHTEN OR REPLACE a trigger so that it no longer looks the same as it did.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

Isn't that the way most things that get voted on go. Everywhere and pretty much everything.

Those that care about something lets it be known.

Those that don't care? Well. they just don't care. I have been in clubs where the TG sent out a survey to every club

member on the agenda items.

Have been in clubs that have a meeting after the match and talk and vote on what they want to TG to do.

Also been in clubs that you never hear anything about anything.

 

I normally keep track about what is getting voted on. And if I have stronger feelings on some things. I be sure and

let the TG know about it. Even before they bring it up.

 

But then. That is the way pretty much all things that get voted on goes. Other agenda items will have there backers talking

to the TG's about that. Same as any other agenda item.

 

This one is no different than any other.

Yep, that's how things work, normally, and so it goes here. I wouldn't get too worked up over it, but if you have an opinion, you should let your TG know.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

The Patterson is totally legal. At issue is not whether it is legal to shoot a gun with a straight trigger. The issue is whether it is legal to STRAIGHTEN OR REPLACE a trigger so that it no longer looks the same as it did.

 

Yeah, Goody, I understand. I did not mean to confuse the real issue and discussion, which is the "legality" of the issue is about modifying a "stock" trigger (or replacing a stock trigger with one that is profiled differently) on a particular rifle, not a shotgun lever, not a shotgun trigger and not a revolver.

 

I was just reminiscing about the Patterson revolver, because someone brought it up, that's all. I know the Patterson has a straight, folding trigger (which is that gun's original configuration) and that it has absolutely NOTHING to do with this issue of modifying a rifle trigger.

 

So, okay ...... I'm back on the clock ...... RIFLE trigger modification.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

I'm with Cat, I would be surprised if it thousand of modified rifles. But I could be wrong. I dont ever recall seeing a "straight trigger" on a rifle, but I havnt spent a lot of time looking either. (I'm sure I will this weekend!) It will be good to get this cleared up, one way or another. If'n I was the grand poobah, since there have obvioulsy been many well-meaning pards who have made this modification, thinking it was totally legal, I would allow them until at leat the TGs meet and decide the issue.

 

And, I thought of the Patterson too, but have never actually seen one, or even a replica in real life. Does anybody use them as main match pistols?

 

Keep on shootin!

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

You boys should color yourselves suprised . It does affect a 1000 plus guns being used today. Its a big world and just because you've never noticed something does not mean it ain't so.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

I'm not disagreeing, I just said I would be surprised if it were thousands of rifles. I know there is no way to practically tally them up, but I have an inquiring mind. I'm sure I'll most probably going to be looking at every rifle I see for a while! I know you get around a lot, how many shooters do you know that use them?

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

trigger.jpg

 

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

How about a stiff Trigger, Hipshot?

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

How about a stiff Trigger, Hipshot?

 

or a stuffed trigger for BIG fingers :D:P

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

I bet most folks wouldn't recognize most modified triggers if they saw one. Lots of factory triggers have been bent to a degree and had the end rounded off. Doesn't have to be straight to be illegal under the recent clarification.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

I bet most folks wouldn't recognize most modified triggers if they saw one. Lots of factory triggers have been bent to a degree and had the end rounded off. Doesn't have to be straight to be illegal under the recent clarification.

 

 

+1

 

Bet they are around more than most think. And they have been at the loading and unloading table while they was there.

They have RO'ed for them and spotted for them.

 

Like I said before. You could put a rifle down that had it. And 99.9 % of the people would never notice it.

 

Most are not totally straight. Just not as curved.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

You boys should color yourselves suprised . It does affect a 1000 plus guns being used today. Its a big world and just because you've never noticed something does not mean it ain't so.

 

Mebbe I should color myself surprised. And mebbe not, too. And whatever color I choose, Deuce, it is completely irrelevent. Why? because the modification is illegal. Just because "everybody" in the neighborhood drives 35 or 40 mph on the streets when the posted speed limit is 25, does not make the speed limit 35 mph. A little research would most likely reveal that "everybody" is only 4 or 5 people in the neighborhood who speed. Similarly, just because a small minority of SASS members have performed this illegal modification does not legitimize it.

 

Plus, I think that most people who decide to take an interest and DO look around at rifles at a match, would be able to tell the difference between a rifle with a "stock" trigger and one, which has been altered along the lines of the subject illegal modification.

 

I've stated my opinion on this issue and rather than beat it to death or have this topic go bad, I'll just wait until the TG's meet to discuss issues such as this. If this currently-illegal modification is on the TG agenda, then I imagine they will address it and either:

--make it legal,

--disallow the modification, or

--table it for future consideration.

 

My best to all.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

Hey Cat,

I'm pretty certain Deuce is up to speed on the rules and recent clarification concerning this topic as He is a current member of the ROC and a TG.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

Lessee here.....what is the difference between disobeying a posted speed limit and a straight-a** trigger?

 

Uhhh...one is the REAL WORLD and the other one is a fantasy game not as popular as Assassin's Creed II?

 

Hmmm...mebbe it's...you can't parallel park a straightened trigger?

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, August 19, 2013 - No reason given

Well it should have been called a set back trigger instead of straight trigger. For the most part over 2/3 of the trigger remains factory spec and the last 1/3 of the tip is slightly bent back and rounded at the bottom. The biggest difference is that the sear is mated to the trigger to reduce trigger flip. With these two minor mods it does help reduce the chance of trigger bite. With the marlin triggers 95 out of 100 shooters would never notice any visual difference. It simply looks like a smooth highly polish trigger !!! But like it was stated by the top guru , its up to each SASS match director to make the final call until its voted upon in December by the TG's. All the proper paperwork has been submitted to SASS and we will see how it turns out. Hope everyone has a wonderful week and a even more great weekend shooting at the club of your choice .

 

Slick

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