Capt. Billy Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I just bought, this week, a Sharps 1874, 45-70, pistol grip stock with a 30" octagon barrel, made by Davide Pedersoli. What a really well made rifle with excellent finish and wood to metal fit. I'm going to the range tomorrow to shoot it for the first time. I picked up some factory Winchester 300 gr. bullets, jacketed hollow points with a muzzle velocity of 1850 fps. Not exactly your average cowboy load, but it's all I could find, just to get some lead downrange. I bought the rifle to take part in the long range rifle side matches. The target at the next annual match that I plan to shoot is at 275 yards. I need some information from you guys that have been there and done that as to what is a good cowboy load for long range shooting? What grain bullet, what powder, and what is the ballistics and trajectory of your recommended load? I also need a source for bullets to reload after I collect some brass. I'll let you know how she shoots after I throw a few of the factory rounds mentioned above downrange. Thanks for any help you can throw my way, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 WOW you dont want much do you! Ok decide if you want to shoot Black Powder or smokeless. Then the question is do you cast bullets or not. Then you have to decide if you are going to be shooting at that 275 yrd distance or true mid-range (300- 500 yrd) or long range (800-1000 yrds). What type of sights you have, and your budget. We can not give loads on the wire, but for my dollar. - Black Powder - Swiss 1 1/2 FG is great, Goex Cartridge/ or FFG work well. Smokeless Unique or Accurate Arms 5744, IMR 3031 are fine too. A good bullet weight if you do not cast is Lazercast 405. nice bullet and a good avg bullet to play with. If you cast, you will find it hard to beat Lyman 457125 or 457132, for heavier bullets for midrange to long range. Read all you can about the old buffalo rifles, read what P Mathews has written You also need to look at spotting scope, front rest or cross sticks. Cleaning gear, Sights (from my experience, you can not skimp on sights, MVA Soule sights are great, Shaver sights are not bad. ) Ohh you are also going to probably need a good family law attorney of a most special wife.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Harris #154 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I have both the Billy Dixon and Quigley models in 45-70. I believe you will find they both like a 405 grain bullet. I shoot BP but I have shot some smokeless through them. You can buy Winchester 45-70 Cowboy loads (smokeless) with 405 grain, they work well. At 230 yards I do not need any elevation to hit the target, BP or smokeless. BH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schuetzum Phast Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Sent you a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Schuetzum Phast is pretty much a master of this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attica Jack #23953 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I also have a Pedersoli Sharps in 45/70. I have added Pedersoli tang sight and Pedersoli globe front sight. My normal load is, the lowest posted load, using Hodgdon 4198, behind a 405 bullet. I have tried using 300 gr. bullets and Trailboss powder, but I did not like that combination. Some shooters like using the Trailboss powder, but I found it was just to soft of a recoil for me. With my normal Hodgdon 4198 load, and a 405 cast bullet, I can break clay pigeons at 200 yd. shooting off of shooting sticks. For me, I didn't think I needed the very expensive tang and globe sights available, as we only shoot around 200 yds. Windage on the cheap sight can be difficult, but doable. I would buy the Pedersoli globe with the spirit level if I did it over again. Cast bullets for the 45/70 are available everywhere. I think one reason the 405's shot better, was because they had two lube grooves, and the 300's only had one. Have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Reno Kid Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Howdy Pard I'd suggest you take a look at the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, either the older 3rd edition or the more recent 4th edition (for which Mike Venturino contributed several chapters). Either is handy because they give 3 sets of loading data for 45-70: (1) Trapdoor rifles (2) Marlin 1895 and modern Winchester Model 1886 (3) Ruger single shot. IMHO, if you stick to the Trapdoor Springfield loading data it should give you plenty of loads suitable for your Sharps rifle. With some experimentation bet you'll be able to tune up a load that works well in your rifle. In the event it helps, my favorite load for my H&R Officers Model Trapdoor Springfield is from the Lyman 3rd edition using SR 4759 powder. Under the Trapdoor loads it gives start load and max load for the various powders. I use the start load for SR 4759 and get excellent results. The max load would probably be an excellent choice for hunting but , in the relatively light H&R Springfield, it has a pretty fierce recoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Billy Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 Thanks guys, you have all been a big help. I'll get some brass from Starline, 405 gr. bullets from Laser Cast, and some try to find some of the powders that were mentioned above. I have some Promo that I load in my shotgun loads and Trail Boss that I use in my .45 colt load for my pistols and 1873 Win. Rifle. If I can't find any of the powders mentioned above, I'll see what kind of load I can get out of the Trail Boss. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Billy Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 Just wanted to let you guys know that I finally got everything I needed to reload my 45-70. Was waiting on a shell base for my Lee hand primer and was able to get some Varget powder to start reloading with. Bought some 405 gr bullets from Northstar Bullets with a .459 diameter. With my old eyes, the buckhorn sights just were not working out. Could either see the sights or the target, and at some times there were multiple targets when only one was present. I got a Pedersoli ladder sight and was able to put 4 shots at 75 yards into a 2.25" group using just a couple of blankets as a rest, not the best. . Will now move out to the longer ranges, eventually ending up at 276 yds, which is the distance at our range for the steel Buffalo silhouettes. I don't have a chronograph, so getting on target at that range will be a trial and error process. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Go BLACK with a heavier bullet(500gn). LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Billy Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Will that help my eyes??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Will that help my eyes??? Maybe not but large caliber cases, ie the 45-70, like black powder better than smokeless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 A couple of suggestions: First, you may want to see your eye doctor about getting some shooting glass made that will put your front and rear sights in relatively sharp focus. This will probably leave the target somewhat blurry, but will help. The sights on your rifle will also help. A tang-mounted rear sight with an aperture (peep)sight will help, as you don't need to focus on the rear sight. Your eye will automatically center in the hole. I would also get a hooded front sight, with interchangeable inserts (post, aperture, etc.) This will allow you to find the right combination. We can't post loads on this forum, but the Lyman Handbook is your best bet for smokeless loads, and a full case of a good BP or BP substitute behind a bullet somewhere between 405 and 520 grains will give you the best results. You may be tempted to go with a lighter bullet driven faster, but the heavier bullets will hold their velocity better over longer ranges. (Think of a badminton bird versus a tennis ball. The former takes off faster, but dies pretty quickly.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 (Think of a badminton bird versus a tennis ball. The former takes off faster, but dies pretty quickly.) Morning Trailrider - nicely stated. I'll have to remember your analogy for future use discussing ballistics in layman's terms. Folks, what Trailrider is saying ... the ballistic coefficent (BC) is all important in the selection of a bullet - especially one that has a lower decrease in BC at longer shooting distances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litl Red Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 A couple of suggestions: First, you may want to see your eye doctor about getting some shooting glass made that will put your front and rear sights in relatively sharp focus. This will probably leave the target somewhat blurry, but will help. The sights on your rifle will also help. A tang-mounted rear sight with an aperture (peep)sight will help, as you don't need to focus on the rear sight. Your eye will automatically center in the hole. I would also get a hooded front sight, with interchangeable inserts (post, aperture, etc.) This will allow you to find the right combination. We can't post loads on this forum, but the Lyman Handbook is your best bet for smokeless loads, and a full case of a good BP or BP substitute behind a bullet somewhere between 405 and 520 grains will give you the best results. You may be tempted to go with a lighter bullet driven faster, but the heavier bullets will hold their velocity better over longer ranges. (Think of a badminton bird versus a tennis ball. The former takes off faster, but dies pretty quickly.) Good advice all. You'll need to talk to your eye doctor about this.... A lot of iron sight competitions allow peep sight corrective lenses. What that means is you can insert a very small corrective lens INTO the peep sight. It is like having bi-focal correction for one eye. It works for most people great. But there's an alternative that works just as well that I've been doing since the 90s. Have some shooting glasses made with your normal prescription for your non-dominant eye. The other side, for your dominant eye, is made with the prescription made for the distance your front sights are. What is that distance? Get a tape and your guns and measure it. You might have to look around for an eye doctor who understands shooter requirements. The only thing beyond what is mentioned above is to avoid lenses with or designed for line-less bifocals. Make sure to get lenses that have the "prescription across the entire lens" or like glasses were made years ago, when they didn't require you "point your nose at what you 'need' to see sharply". Sound like something odd? Not at all. Contact lenses have offered "bi-focals" for years. They do exactly the same thing, come with a left eye prescription and a right eye prescription, with those two prescriptions having one of them for reading. We happen to want to read the front sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320 Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Just wanted to let you guys know that I finally got everything I needed to reload my 45-70. Was waiting on a shell base for my Lee hand primer and was able to get some Varget powder to start reloading with. Bought some 405 gr bullets from Northstar Bullets with a .459 diameter. With my old eyes, the buckhorn sights just were not working out. Could either see the sights or the target, and at some times there were multiple targets when only one was present. I got a Pedersoli ladder sight and was able to put 4 shots at 75 yards into a 2.25" group using just a couple of blankets as a rest, not the best. . Will now move out to the longer ranges, eventually ending up at 276 yds, which is the distance at our range for the steel Buffalo silhouettes. I don't have a chronograph, so getting on target at that range will be a trial and error process. I'm loading the 405 gr RNFP with 41 grs. Varget. The loading manual show 40 grs. as a minimum with a muzzle velocity of 1350 fps, so I figure I am getting around 1450 with 41 grs. I'm enjoying shooting this rifle and experimenting with sights and trying to get a tight group in order to be able to move that group out to 275 yds. I'm just hoping my eyes, with my new glasses will work at that range. . With my old eyes, the buckhorn sights just were not working out. Could either see the sights or the target, and at some times there were multiple targets when only one was present. I was seeing multiple targets and turned out I needed cataract surgery. After surgery I have 20/15 vision in both eyes. Need to use 1.25 reading glasses for reading. I had my optometrist, who is a shooter, make me a pair of glasses for shooting handguns. The right eye has a .5 setting which makes the sights crystal clear and the left lens has no correction at all. I shoot handguns with both eyes open so both the sights and the target are sharp. Sage Creek Gus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litl Red Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I had my optometrist, who is a shooter, make me a pair of glasses for shooting handguns. The right eye has a .5 setting which makes the sights crystal clear and the left lens has no correction at all. I shoot handguns with both eyes open so both the sights and the target are sharp. Sage Creek Gus Those glasses are for older younger eyes. It's the same concept. As we get older, or for people who already need glasses, both sides need help. The concept differs from regular prescriptions only in the consideration given the dominant eye for seeing the front sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye Ashley Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Just looking at your post after finding an old book my father had. I didn't inherit his trapdoor but did find the book. The title is Loading the cartridges for the original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine by J. S. and Pat Wolf. You can find 2nd editions on Amazon Books for $35 and 3rd editions near $60 but I will let it go for $25 and I take care of the postage inside the U. S. A. It is even signed by Pat Wolfe. Check it out on Amazon. E-mail me if you are interested. Deadeye Ashley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litl Red Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 BTW guys, the "mixture of prescriptions" idea, where you have a "front sight" prescription in the glass for your aiming eye and a "target distance" (normal) prescription for yout other eye.... that solution was one way bifocals were made way back when. They didn't have the technology to grind what we know today as bifocals but they knew how good it worked putting a short prescription on one side with a long prescription on the other. I often tell people my shooting glasses' prescriptions are truly historical, just like they'd be back in the 1890s. And they are. And they work great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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