Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 OK.. Building rifle rounds... 38 special.. Starline brass, 105 TCFP.. sized .358 Dillon 550B approx. 9 years old.. all original dies.. Using their Flat at the seating die station and their Accucrimp die?? at the crimp station.. that came with it.. They told me it's kinda of the best of both worlds. does some tapered and some roll crimp.. Tryin' to acheive a 1.45 OAL.. I've been loading 1.435 for maybe 7-8 years.. Setting the bullet seating depth to 1.45... got it... crimp station... shortens the OAL to 1.40-1.42 readjusted crimp station... little at a time, til it wasn't changing OAL of 1.45 I can run my finger down the crimp area and I can feel the edge of the case.. Lower the crimp die a little... so I can't feel the edge... starts changing the OAL.. I've tried changing bullet seating die to 1.50 OAL to compensate... kinda sporadic.. Seems the only way I can get both dies to perform to 1.45 OAL is to feel the edge of the case.. Don't feel I should be able to feel the edge on rifle ammo.. Kinda' anal.. but I like a good tight crimp on rifle ammo in a magazine tube... Given thought to a roll crimp die for the final station.. but... your thoughts?? Thanks Rance Thinkin' I need a little input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewey Takum Enhowe Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Does the bullet have a crimp groove? I had a similar problem. The crimp groove was tapered. When it went through the crimp die, it would pull the bullet down into the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022 Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I have had the same problem. Talked to Dillon and we messed with it but the fix was a patch. I am going from roll crimp to taper crimp die to see if it fixes the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 Does the bullet have a crimp groove? I had a similar problem. The crimp groove was tapered. When it went through the crimp die, it would pull the bullet down into the case. yep.. gotta' crimp groove and yep it's tapered.. OK.. just ran 10 dummy rounds I built with 1.45-1.46 OAL Measured them again after they came out of the rifle... 1.38-1.40 OAL ... so... I'm thinkin' more crimp.. but that shortens the OAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Is the crimp die clean? I don't see how the die can contact the bullet, which is a smaller diameter than the case. You are seating and crimping in two different stations, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Rose, SASS #45478 Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 When the roll is applied and the case bumps the bullet in the crimp groove it will move the bullet down into the case. If you fine tune the depth at the seating station you might be able to accomplish your goal. The problem is with the bullet, not the dies. If your gun is running at 1.43, then why are you fixing something that isn't broke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 Is the crimp die clean? I don't see how the die can contact the bullet, which is a smaller diameter than the case. You are seating and crimping in two different stations, yes? Cleaned the seating and the crimp die before I started... and yep.. 2 different stations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 When the roll is applied and the case bumps the bullet in the crimp groove it will move the bullet down into the case. If you fine tune the depth at the seating station you might be able to accomplish your goal. The problem is with the bullet, not the dies. If your gun is running at 1.43, then why are you fixing something that isn't broke? I've shot a yellowboy for years.. using 1.435 OAL Just got a new 1873... They say... shortest OAL is 1.44 or it won't cycle correctly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisler Wood Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 As was said back off the seating die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half Moon Hobo Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 The block that holds the dies usually has some movement in it also, which makes OAL sporadic at best. I've had trouble getting the same OAL shell to shell. I found a kit that Unigue TeK sells that takes care of the problem. I'm not sure if this would help you out or not. If the crimp die moves the bullet the same amount every time, you should be able to adjust the seater die accordingly. Also, if your cases aren't trimmed to the same length crimping will be sporadic also. Hope this helps. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Rance, Problem definitely bullet. Shortest OAL might be 1.44", but your rifle might like longer cartridges better. I suggest you try some at 1.50". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I've shot a yellowboy for years.. using 1.435 OAL Just got a new 1873... They say... shortest OAL is 1.44 or it won't cycle correctly... Don't take that to the bank. All 73's are different......and the gunsmiths all do different things so picking a standard minimum is hard to do. Mine will shoot 1.42 just fine and a pard of mine was shooting 1.38 for a while. If you crimp off the taper you can get that bullet a lot longer but before you do all that try it with the bullets they way there are first. It will be most obvious if they are too short. I make up ten dummies with no primer (because I can't shoot close by) and run those through as a check. Longer bullets can make the gun run smoother because you don't fight pushing the mag spring back so far but if the mag spring is real light it's not noticeable. The other issue with not enough length is it can jam the action but as I said you feel that right away.......if you don't feel it at 1.43 don't chase the ghost IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 The roll crimp die will pull the bullet down into the case. Usually the same depth as the crimp groove to the driving band. That is the way it should work. As posted above, don't fix what isn't broke. Also, as posted above, being told flatly 1.44 is the magic number for "short" is horse puckey. As posted above, there all (Uberti Rifles) different. Some will run lake wet grain thru a Goose at 1.38 - 1.40 and some won't. Make up 10 dummies crimped to the crimp groove and cycle them thru the action. If they work, do nothing. I cannot suggest going to a taper crimp in a tube magazine rifle. Too often you will wind up with a "turtle" and the rifle jammed. Bad Joss that. As a point, I"ve been shooting mixed brass in .38, with 105Gr TCFP for years. Shoot em in '66s and '73s. I've also been building competition rifles for over 15 years and I shoot em in every rifle I build. No problems. I will say though, if you want the slickest feeding round on the planet, a 130Gr TCFP with a rounded Ogive is unbeatable. Care must be taken however, some bullets over 130Gr have a very wide Meplat that will hang up on the edge of the barrel breach. Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 This solved all my crimping problems. http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/251707/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-38-special-357-magnum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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