Compare 73 conversion between PGW and Jim Spurs

[Rootin Tootin]

I am looking for a short stroked 73 and want to know the difference between a Jimmy Spurs and a Pioneer Gun Works short stoke. I currently shoot Marlins with the Spur/Carty short strokes but thought I would like to try a 73 set up with a short stoke as well.

 

Any advise is appreciated. Can't afford to make a mistake at those prices.......... Rootin Tootin 21707

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

PGW uses aftermarket parts in the form of new links,lifter,action springs and sometimes mainspring. PGW makes their own parts in with the exception of action springs and hammer spring kits. They come in two stroke lengths, original and super short. Jimmy Spurs uses no aftermarket parts and builds each rilfe in house using his own short stroking method. He no longer does rifles though.

[Rootin Tootin]

How do either short strokes on a 73 compare to the Spur/Carty on the Marlin?

[Knot Hardly Dunn, SASS 43113]

The short stroke marlin based on a 38 spl case has the same stroke length as my 3rd gen 73.

[Anvil Al #59168]

How do either short strokes on a 73 compare to the Spur/Carty on the Marlin?

 

 

Ford vs Chevy.

 

Both can go as fast as the person driving it.

Which feels best to YOU, is the one YOU can drive the fastest.

 

I am sure someone around you has a SSed 73 and will let you shoot a match with it.

Test drive one and then see which you want.

[Snakebite]

PGW does make his own Lifter, Lever, Safety, Firing Pin, Magazine, Hammer springs, lifters, carriers, firing pins, short stroke links, sights etc. In fact, he makes and sells ALL the parts. Some of them are unique, and some of them are much the same as other mfgs make. You must decide if they are what you want.

 

There is a good deal of controversy as to whether to get a gun that has been cut, bent and welded, or to get one that uses after market parts. In either case, quality gunsmith work is required to have a quality finished product.

 

Snakebite

[Straight Arrow Hombre]

If Jimmy Spurs still did 73's I'd own one. I've shot a couple of them and they're awesome. Super smooth. The stroke length is close to a spur/Carty marlin.

[Palo Verde, SASS # 56522]

There are currently a number of short strokes for '73s in the U.S.:

 

4 1/8 inch (current SASS Min. legal, after market parts, at least two mfg)

4 3/8 inch (after market parts, one mfg)

4 3/4 inch (after market parts, at least three mfg)

5 inch (after market parts, at least two mfg,)

Plus, there are at least four (and possibly many, many more) cut/weld and bend short strokes, using Uberti

parts, that range from about 4 3/4 to 5 inches. I have not seen any that got below 4 3/4 inch but I haven't seen everything.

 

In my opinion, the stroke on the Uberti '73 needs to be shortened to make a competitive gun --- it is simply tough to be competitive in today's game with the 6 1/8 +/- inch out-of the box stroke -- although there are some that do a darn good job with it .

 

Each must decide how short you want your stroke. Theoretically, the shorter the stroke - the shorter the distance - the shorter the time to lever the rifle. Some folks will say that the shorter stroke must do the same work as the longer stroke and it is therefore more difficult to lever -- theoretically, that is true but other factors are way more important to the difficulty of levering.. The 4 1/8 inch stroke can routinely be built to operate with one finger and I have seen 5 inch strokes that were hard as heck to operate --- depends on how they are built .

 

try some different guns at a local shoot - most people will swear that whatever they have is the greatest and it probably will be for them .

 

And remember, unless the gun mechanic really likes his grinder and buffer, this is not a permanent decision. You can always change your mind and have it re-done to something else --- even the old parts usually have residual value that can be recovered.

 

All that said, it still comes down to what those men playing poker told me when I was a young person, "Son, you puts your money down and you takes your chances"

[Monco]

Palo Verde makes a good point about being able to change between different setups.......Going with the aftermarket parts method, this can easily be done by anyone with some mechanical ability & basic tools in a short amount of time. The gun can also easily be put back to OEM if desired....not that anyone would want to.

 

I haven't used a Spurs or Codymatic rifle to compare but the one I set up myself using PGW parts has been great. Zero complaints.

[Flinthills Dawg]

look at C&I for a 73

[Snakebite]

I bought one the early short stroked 73s for the sole reason of seeing how it was done. That gun was a marvel and was one of the smoothest to date that I have ever seen. The workmanship was nothing less than excellent and the gun looked as good inside as it did on the outside. Without doubt, the builder had spent some good amount of time producing a fine, custom modified firearm. If I was going to "copy" someone's work, then this was the one to copy. Since then, I have had a couple of the Cut, Bend and Weld rifles come across the bench for repair. The guns that were brought to me were suppose to be by the same builder as that first gun, but the quality of the work inside sure didn't look anything like what was in that early gun. The welding looked like a Mud Daubber had been inside the actions, and things were just not finished out like in the earlier gun. It was obvious that the same amount of time and work had not been put into these guns. Both of them had the same problem... the levers had been heated to the point for bending and reshaping that they were so soft that the first time something hung up, the shooter would bend the lever trying to make things work.... of course, then the gun would not work at all. The levers are soft enough without taking them down even further. It takes a real talent to do a good Cut, Bend and Weld job like that first one I had, and there are guys out there that have the ability to do that magnificent job. There are no after market or out of shop parts to purchase... just the Craftsman's labor, which of course is his cheapest commodity. I sure would not fault anyone who wanted one of these hand built beauties.... If you decide to go this direction, talk to the builder and if necessary pay for the extra labor to get a top notch job.

 

Since the advent of the short toggles and other after market parts, there has been an explosion of guys who install them. Seems that there are now a lot of "In House" action jobs available too. But remember, there is more to it than just dropping in parts, at least if you want a nice smooth gun that is timed right and has a good action. With the right guy doing it, these guns can be made just as smooth and shoot able using after market parts as the guns done by the Cut, Bend and Weld method. There is not as much profit margin in these type of jobs since in most cases the after market parts have to be purchased. If you are inclined to be a "do it yourself" type, then go for it and buy the parts and drop them in. You stand very little chance of doing any permanent damage. At least when you decide that it is time to let someone who knows what he is doing..... make it right, you won't have any trouble finding someone to do it. Changing a Cut, Bend and Weld gun back can be very expensive! Why would anyone want to change it back????? I've had many folks want to try one of the latest short stroke kits, only to find out that they CAN'T... not without spending a lot of money to get back to the starting point. I think that most folks would benefit by purchasing a rifle from one of the majors who buy the guns, the parts, and then does the install and TUNEUP.

 

Snakebite

[Colt McAllister]

Actually the way to get both smooth and the shortest stroke is to combine the 2 methods. If a person knows what they are doing with the right welder you don't change the hardness of the lever. A cut and weld job combined with the right links will give you the smoothest feel if you are going for the shortest stroke. Don't pay any attention to the 4 1/8" stroke rule unless you are buying a pistol grip model. The powers to be never really figured out a good way to measure the strokes on the rifles. If you go to a local shoot and see some rifles try them out. If the local rifle guru seems to be bringing back guns he dropped off at the last match and refixing them run for the hills and look at another option.

 

Good Luck,

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

The 73 has the shortest stroke and very fast. I shoot a 94 marlin cbc and like it because I am used to it and desire to change the stock out on the 73.

[Kirk James]

Bought a Cut, Weld and Bend short stroke for Cody James two and half years ago. It was our first investment in Cowboy Action. Lasted about a year and a half and then started having problems. Nobody seemed to be able to fix it properly. Did not want to send it back to the original builder. I had Palo Verde gut it and start over. You can see his results at EOT. Had Palo Verde build SASS Kicker a rifle shortly before Border Town and she loves it. I know there are quality builders that build them both ways with a great deal of success. My advice is to research the success of others with their gunsmiths. Nobody is harder on a 73 than cowboy shooters. Get recommendations before you spend the money.

[J. Frank Norfleet]

Don't pay any attention to the 4 1/8" stroke rule unless you are buying a pistol grip model.

Why, does the pistol grip shorten it up that much?

L

[Colt McAllister]

Why, does the pistol grip shorten it up that much?

L

 

It don't. That's how screwed up the measuring procedure is. The same stroke on a deluxe as a straight stock will have two way different measurements. Also what position the trigger is in will change the measurement of the stroke. I can take a perfectly legal gun with a two piece trigger and weld the trigger in to the forward position and make it illegal. 4 1/8" stroke with a two piece trigger is not the length as a one piece trigger welded in the forward position. Screwed up isn't it.