Mad Ron Black Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Once again the new guy has a question. I shoot black-powder and I would prefer to use nitrated paper cartridges in my Colt Navy pistols. So here are are my questions... 1. Are nitrated paper cartridges allowed in SASS matches? 2. Conical or round ball? 3. Does anyone make them so I don't have to make them? Thanks, and sorry for all the questions. Mad Ron Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 To answer your questions in very simple answers. #1 Yes #2 Either one #3 No, Those who do make them for there own use, do so as a labor of love. And BTW; loading, loose fill in the chambers is much faster, and more reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Some of the dedicated bp shooters (Prarie Dawg comes to mind) will chime in here soon and will most likely they will tell you that manufacturing or using "store bought" paper cartridges (I don't know if you can even buy them somewhere) is a waste of time. As you become accustomed to loading your Navy's with a powder flask and the correct size balls, it gets very easy. You really do not need to go the paper cartridge route. However, about the best thing I can tell you is to go ahead and become retentive about using the bp paper cartridges and experiment with it. It's fun, actually, but requires some little tools you make for yourself from dowels, the right glue, chemicals, paper, etc. I still have about 300 of these paper cartridges made up and they fire every time. For paper, you can use cigarette papers, but I think these are very expensive and defeat the purpose of the exercise. I use thin rice paper that I had to go on a quest looking for. It is usually pretty thick. I found a roll of what I wanted on eBay years back. Very thin unglossed newsprint works well, too (think an artist's drawing pad). Then you need Potassium Nitrate, which I found on eBay years ago. Not sure it's sold anymore. If not there, try the other auction sites or a chemical supply house. You use a saturated dilution of PN to soak the paper in. Mark the paper first with pencil to give you your cutting lines, then soak the paper, air dry it and cut out the cartridge forms. I use something called "water glass" as a glue. It might still be found on eBay, I don't know. The glue is important, because it can interfere with the ignition from the percussion caps. I do not tie my cartridges off with thread, like some of the original Civil War cartridges were. (Did you know that if a prospective CW recruit had no front teeth that he was rejected because he couldn't bite the end off the issue paper rifle cartridges??) You might need a nipple pick to puncture the cartridges after they've been loaded into the gun, especially if you use a lot of glue. If you bite off the "tail" on the back of the cartridge first, you probably won't need to puncture the cartridge. Here's an old link to a forum where one guy used cigarette papers (thin, nitrated rice paper) to make his paper cartridges. Take a look and see how he even packages his in "authentic" wrapping. Pretty cool: http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15009 This is kind of a fun exercise to go through and the expense isn't all that much, but in the end, it is not really necessary. You become pretty quick and efficient loading the guns without making cartridges anyway. Anyway, have fun, whatever you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Shooting two cap & ball, Rogers & Spencer revolvers, I can wipe down and recharge both guns using a flask, wads, ball or conical and grease the front of the cylinders at the unloading table while pausing to watch and check two shooters unloading. This leave time to help with scoring or running the timers or pickup brass for a few shooters. Like shooting targets, with experience you can reduce the time required to do a proper job of charging c&b revolvers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Tried em years ago but I decided they were more trouble than they were worth. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Ron Black Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 Tried em years ago but I decided they were more trouble than they were worth. Just my opinion. I know what you mean. That's why I hoping someone made them. Mad Ron Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers McGee Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, July 3, 2013 - SASS reserves the right to disallow solicitations of membership, commercial posts, fundraising efforts, links to other bulletin boards or chat rooms, ... Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, July 3, 2013 - SASS reserves the right to disallow solicitations of membership, commercial posts, fundraising efforts, links to other bulletin boards or chat rooms, ... Tried em years ago but I decided they were more trouble than they were worth. Just my opinion. Dittos. Go over to the CAS-City (www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php ) type paper cartridges into the search function. It will pop up with threads containing more information than you will ever need, want or use. Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee Link to comment
Grizzly Adams 3674 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I used to make them. Lots of work, and the kid at the Quick Stop would always give me that "knowing" smile when I bought the Zig Zag papers. One day they had another clerk who was older and more direct. He just said, "Man, I thought all you old hippies were extinct." I haven't bought any since.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 go to your local hardware store and get some stump removal powder. It will be either potassium or sodium nitrate. Use it to soak your papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I have made them using the cigarette paper route. Found I could make about 6 an hour. That included cutting, gluing, filling, etc. also found that I needed to take a nipple pick and poke a hole through the nipple after I got the ball seated to ensure I got ignition every time. I can't even find the time to cast much any more, let alone try and make nitrate or linen cartridges. A lot of fun to do, just don't have the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthracite Andy Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 You can still buy the potassium nitrate online. If you were a little closer I'd just tell you to stop buy and I'd give you some. I bought a pound or so of it a few years ago and it will last me 1000 years. As others mentioned, you need the correct paper because if it doesn't burn completely it will make it difficult to load another round, and the last thing you want when playing with nitrated black powder cartridges is to have a glowing ember sitting in a cylinder when you try to put another cartridge in. It was fun to play around with, but it really isn't very practical. And this is coming from a huge BP fan as well as somewhat historically correct Civil War re-enactor. Anthracite Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I used to just make powder "cigarettes" (kinda looked like them funny California left-handed cigs) by rolling a rolling paper around a pencil, "coin roll" crimping one end, then filling it using a funnel and spout. Trim to length and twist the open end shut. Hold by the twisted end, insert the "coin rolled" end into the chamber first, add yer wad and ball, and ram it. The ramming will bust open the paper, so no worries about ignition, nor need to nitrate em. I made me a little "wallet" type box that held 18 rounds, and carried my 61 navy afield that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Ron Black Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 So it sounds like I should nix the cartridge idea. I know how much work it is and reloading with the flask is just fine with me! Thanks everyone for you support. I just paid my membership to SASS today, early birthday gift from my wife. Mad Ron Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Once ya get used to it, reloading the traditional way is easy enough. Like anything else, practice helps. I only made the paper cartridges for field carry, so a pocket sized kit allowed for reloads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jake1001 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Welcome to SASS, now get out your wallet. You're gonna need Guns, lots of Guns Handguns 2 Back up Guns 2 Different cal Handguns 2 Back up Guns 2 Main match rifle 1 Back up rifle 1 Different cal Rifles 2, Double barrel shotgun 1 Pump shotgun 2-3 Derringer 1 Pocket pistol 1 Long Range Rifle (smokeless) 1 Single Shot Long Range Rifle (Black Powder) 1 Single Shot Long Range Rifle Lever action 1 A big Safe to keep all the new Guns. Another Safe cuz you didn't buy a big enough Safe the first time Cowboy Hats 3-10....can't have too many hats Neckerchiefs 3-10 Cowboy Vests...many Cowboy pants....many Cowboy Boots....many Cowboy Pocket Watch A new Truck and Camper or Trailer to go the multi day shoots. Can you see where this is going yet? More new Cowboy Pards and Pardettes than you know what to do with. Hang on for the ride of your Life. Did I say Welcome to SASS? Big (whats done all of this 27 years ago) Jake Sass Life #1001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Ron Black Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 Welcome to SASS, now get out your wallet. You're gonna need Guns, lots of Guns Handguns 2 Back up Guns 2 Different cal Handguns 2 Back up Guns 2 Main match rifle 1 Back up rifle 1 Different cal Rifles 2, Double barrel shotgun 1 Pump shotgun 2-3 Derringer 1 Pocket pistol 1 Long Range Rifle (smokeless) 1 Single Shot Long Range Rifle (Black Powder) 1 Single Shot Long Range Rifle Lever action 1 A big Safe to keep all the new Guns. Another Safe cuz you didn't buy a big enough Safe the first time Cowboy Hats 3-10....can't have too many hats Neckerchiefs 3-10 Cowboy Vests...many Cowboy pants....many Cowboy Boots....many Cowboy Pocket Watch A new Truck and Camper or Trailer to go the multi day shoots. Can you see where this is going yet? More new Cowboy Pards and Pardettes than you know what to do with. Hang on for the ride of your Life. Did I say Welcome to SASS? Big (whats done all of this 27 years ago) Jake Sass Life #1001. I have all the clothing, 5 pairs of pants, 2 more on the way 4 vests, 4 shirts, 3 pairs of boots, 3 hats, a pocket watch. My wife is a historic costume designer so clothing is not an issue. I have 2 colt Navy 1851s 44 cal, and a shotgun on the way. I also have a 44 cal BP derringer. I do need a new van, Winchester, and some other items on the list. My wife said, "Get what you need." I was shocked too. I can't wait for the ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellgate #3302 L Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I can add one more item to your list if you still go on ahead with the paper cartridge use: a pair of tweezers to remove any unburnt paper left in the chambers. It easily gets down over the flash hole and prevents ignition or worse yet (as mentioned) could smoulder and set off your next load. I made cartridges years ago when I had plenty of spare time. I've got my loading down to a rhythm while I clear shooters at the unloading table. There were too many misfires with the paper cartridges. If I were to resume their use I'd rupture the paper as I loaded the cartridge to ensure loose powder in the bottom of the chamber. That way you'll get better ignition and it will blow out any paper residue when fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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