Judge Lewis Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 All your rule experts out there -- Is a New Model Blackhawk SASS legal as is or will I have to change the sights? Thanks for any replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Adjustable sights are legal in all age based categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 As long as they have metal sights, whether adjustable or not, they're legal... in all but a couple of categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Short answer....... YES. Except in Classic Cowboy and Gunfighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 CC, close, they are not allowed in Duelist or FC either. I like to put it this way, adjustable sight revolvers are allowed in the age based and B-western categories only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Short answer....... YES. Except in Classic Cowboy and Gunfighter CC, close, they are not allowed in Duelist or FC either. I like to put it this way, adjustable sight revolvers are allowed in the age based and B-western categories only. Unless "Age" based - Then they are allowed. I have been told that age takes precedence over style. So a Duelist cannot use adjustable sights, but a "Senior" Duelist can. A Gunfighter could not, but a "Senior" Gunfighter could. I truly think the whole debate is silly - either adjustable sights ARE an advantage and they need to be relegated to very specific categories or they offer NO advantage and should be allowed across the board. Cherry picking a select few cats that they are not allowed in and then in the next breath saying that they are "OK" in the same category if it is age based is... Whats the word? Oh yeah, SILLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 And they must be at least 32 caliber or larger and no more than 45 caliber. The Blackhawk 30 carbine is not a legal SASS revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 You might find some information online or in a publication stating that adjustable sighted revolvers are only allowed in the "Modern" category. This is outdated info as the rule was changed several years ago. Grizzly Dave gave you the answer from the current rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Dobbs Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 How about Super Blackhawk loaded with light sass legal 44 special loads? Is that legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntingtoys Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 How about Super Blackhawk loaded with light sass legal 44 special loads? Is that legal? same rules bigger gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Can not have fiber optic sights in any category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I love my Blackhawks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 The Ruger Flat Tops BlackHawks was modeld after the Colt Target Model. Yes the BlackHawks are Legal in Most Catagorys . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Hacker, #60477 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Unless "Age" based - Then they are allowed. I have been told that age takes precedence over style. So a Duelist cannot use adjustable sights, but a "Senior" Duelist can. A Gunfighter could not, but a "Senior" Gunfighter could. I truly think the whole debate is silly - either adjustable sights ARE an advantage and they need to be relegated to very specific categories or they offer NO advantage and should be allowed across the board. Cherry picking a select few cats that they are not allowed in and then in the next breath saying that they are "OK" in the same category if it is age based is... Whats the word? Oh yeah, SILLY. I think it is actually more silly than that. Senior Duelist (IIRC) is not considered an aged based category because it is a sub-category of Duelist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I've got a S&W New Model 3 Target made prior to 1898. (I should get a letter to be sure of exact date) It has "adjustable" sights. Adjustable with the aide of a screwdriver. I have another S&W Model 3 DA with fixed sites. (I mention this ONLY for the sights) I can see no difference in the sight picture. I shoot Duelist. Techicnally, I can't use my New Model 3 cuz it has adjustable sights, and I am not old enough for an age category yet. I agree that this is kinda silly. Do away with the restrictions. Adjustable sights existed "back in the day." Yes, I know we are not re-enactors, but of something is of the era, I don't see what the problem with allowing it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Yup, you sure can. In fact many of us ol'timers started with Ruger Blackhawks because there just weren't as many Vaqueros out there. Plus the cost of Blackhawks was a little less too. I never understood why, except demand. I started out in Modern category with a pair of heavy barreled 10.5" K-Super Blackhawks because it was all I had at the time. Blast away with the Blackies!!!!! MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I think it is actually more silly than that. Senior Duelist (IIRC) is not considered an aged based category because it is a sub-category of Duelist. Mack I agree, but I seem to recall a ruling that was posted on the wire that the age grouping "Senior" took precedence over the style grouping "Duelist". I argued that it was not a "correct" ruling because if a "Senior" Duelist attended a match and there were a lack of shooters in Senior Duelist - that shooter would get consolidated into Duelist and then have illegal pistols for the category. Earning them a DQ. Perhaps Palewolf will chime in and give clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 And they must be at least 32 caliber or larger and no more than 45 caliber. The Blackhawk 30 carbine is not a legal SASS revolver. Really why is that as it is really a 32 ACP extra long? Caliber should be just fine I could see a potential problem with it being semi rimless. But then too 45 acp conversions would be more inappropriate as they are truly rimless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Really why is that as it is really a 32 ACP extra long? Caliber should be just fine I could see a potential problem with it being semi rimless. But then too 45 acp conversions would be more inappropriate as they are truly rimless. Shooters Handbook page 9 Must be centerfire calibers of at least .32 caliber and no larger than .45 caliber or percussion calibers of at least .36 caliber and no larger than .45 caliber. Must be in a caliber commonly available in revolvers. Examples include, but are not limited to, .32-20, .32 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .38 Special, .44 Magnum, .44-40, and .45 Colt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Shooters Handbook page 9 Must be centerfire calibers of at least .32 caliber and no larger than .45 caliber or percussion calibers of at least .36 caliber and no larger than .45 caliber. Must be in a caliber commonly available in revolvers. Examples include, but are not limited to, .32-20, .32 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .38 Special, .44 Magnum, .44-40, and .45 Colt. So you seem to know...just about everything. Do you think any of the Wild Bunch ever used the Ruger in 30 Carbine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 It was the first revolver shot in a CAS match. Not legal by today's rules. and no I don't know who shot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 It was the first revolver shot in a CAS match. Not legal by today's rules. and no I don't know who shot it. Guess cuz it's doesn't involve B-Western... So, what makes a caliber a 32??? The nomenclature or the bullet diameter? Do tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Ron Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Howdy, Stop stop you are makin my head hurt Best CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Guess cuz it's doesn't involve B-Western... So, what makes a caliber a 32??? The nomenclature or the bullet diameter? Do tell. As near as I can tell, it is purely a matter of nomenclature. Theorectially, a .30 caliber cartridge is a .308 diameter bullet. A .32 is a .312" bullet. But the reality does not always line up... .30 Carbine uses .308 .30 Mauser ostensibly uses .308, but many bores are oversized, requiring .312" bullets .30 Tokarev uses a .309 bullet. (I use the same .310 bullet for both of the M and T with good results.) .32 S&W and .32 S&W Long use a .312 bullet. So does 7.65 Nagant, making it a "32" and the conversion cylinders are for .32 ACP. BUT, the caliber was chosen to be the same bullet diameter as the Moisin Nagant rifles, which was in .30 Russian. .32 ACP also uses the .312 bullet. .30 Luger uses a .309 .30-30, .30-40, .30-'06 and .308 all use a .308 .32 Winchester Special uses a .312 .303 British uses a... .311. So is it a .30 or a .32? Other than the .30 Luger, I reload all these cartidges. With cartridges designed for .jacketed bullets, I used ones that are .001 larger than the indicated sizes. The difference between a .30 and .32 is a bizzare one, IMO. We are not talking 2 100ths (or 1 50th) of an inch. We are talking, using the "generic" sizes of .312 and .308, 4 1000th's (or 1 250th of an inch.) That's not really a very significant difference! This is why, for example, you can safely fire .30-30 ammo in a .32 Winchester Special rifle and still, potentially, have decent accuracy and perfectly good fireformed brass to reload in the .32 caliber rifle. Is anyone else feeling overwhelmed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Hello, I don't think we need our beloved PWB to clarify where Senior Duelist fits. It is listed on page 12 of the SHB in the age-based category. "Seniors are competitors 60 years of age or greater. Senior Duelist is also a recognized Senior Category. Senior Duelist category shooters may use any SASS–legal firearm or ammunition but must shoot Duelist or Double-Duelist Style only," Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 The original "reason" (or lack of it) for distinguishing adjustable sights from fixed on revolvers was that one could change the sights on the former, but not on the latter. The thing is, who in blazes was going to sit there and dial in a sight adjustment on their pistol? Maybe if switching between using a jacketed to a cast bullet (going from, say, a hunting load to a SASS load? Finally got rid of the distinction. The only other "benefit" of the adjustable sights was a better sight picture because most of the adjustables utilizaed a square notch, where Colt' and Colt's replicas had/have a variety of notch shapes. Of course, you could correct any deficiencies there with a Swiss file and some time and elbow grease. The powers that be finally got rid of the Modern and Traditional catagories. Don't know a good reason why folks who shoot Dualist have any advantage shooting adjustable sights over fixed. Also can't see any advantage to the so-called adjustable sights on a Berreta Laramie. The only adjustment is in windage, and the way it adjusts is enough to drive you nuts trying to adjust it. No easier than windage adjustment on most open-sighted rifle rear sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awful Close Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 And if you have a 30 cal Blackhawk, you can have the cylinder bored to 32-20 and use a .308 bullet. Or better yet, just buy a 32-20 cylinder and you can shoot 2 calibers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I think it is actually more silly than that. Senior Duelist (IIRC) is not considered an aged based category because it is a sub-category of Duelist. Senior duelist is an age based category, as is senior gunfighter, etc if offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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