double skb

[Connecticut Yankee]

Hi Pards

Well i had a weird thing happen this weekened at a big match. I have a skb double 200e that i have been shooting for about 2 years and it has been all tricked out by Jimmy Spurs and has worked fantastic up until yesterday. I was going to be smart this time i bought some Winchester AA target loads so i would have new hulls to use but my main problem with them was they would not shuck out of the gun after firing i had to pull them out, i oiled the recievers up an still they would not shuck i mean i used about 30 rounds and most of them stuck. I will preface that the temp for the 3 days was in the 90"s with high humidity. I then said the H--- with it and went back to my AA reloads that i make and had no problems shucking them. Has anyone had any experience with that. Just thought i would ask the experts.

 

Thanks

 

 

Ct Yankee

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Yep. Many lots of the new Winchesters have a bulged hull where the bottom edge of the wad is seated down into the inner "base wad insert" on the new AA hulls. It shows up as a ridge about 3/8 inch above the top edge of the brass head.

 

I have had to go to gauging all new Winchester AA loads that we shoot with a shotshell gauge to make sure the factory loaded rounds will fall in and fall out of the chamber gauge. Toss all that fail the test into the practice box.

 

Those with a distinct ridge DON'T come out of my wife's slicked up SKB100 without pulling them.

 

My reloads don't create the bulge, perhaps because I don't put but about 10 pounds of pressure on the column as I seat the wad.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Goatneck Clem]

In your post you referenced using Winchester AA Target Loads. Winchester makes a number of different Target Loads. These loads vary in shot size and shot weight from 26gram up to 1 1/18oz shot. Also volecity will vary from 980 fps up to 1350 fps plus. As the vol. increases so does the pressure. If you were using a higher vol. target load more than likely the hull and brass is expanding which causes the hull to stick in your chamber. Those type loads we use in Trap or Sporting Clays where you are shooting 40 to 55 yard shots. They are not recommened for Cowboy Action SKB's or Brownings or any other S/S cowboy shotguns. These guns with action jobs will not hold up to the higher vol. Target Loads

 

 

 

Goatneck

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

+1 to what Garrison Joe said. I have gotten cases of Featherlights where 3 or 4 shells per box would not chamber because of the bulge. Once fired they can be reloaded OK. However, I have also gotten cases that shells would drop nicely into the chambers but stick when fired and would not shuck. Turned out the plastic must have been a slightly different formula or something because the problem was that when the shell fired the crimp fingers blew out but then did not fold slightly back in after the shot and wad came out and stuck the fired hull in the chamber. Every one had to be manually pulled from the chamber.

[Snakebite Dust SASS 75484]

In your post you referenced using Winchester AA Target Loads. Winchester makes a number of different Target Loads. These loads vary in shot size and shot weight from 26gram up to 1 1/18oz shot. Also volecity will vary from 980 fps up to 1350 fps plus. As the vol. increases so does the pressure. If you were using a higher vol. target load more than likely the hull and brass is expanding which causes the hull to stick in your chamber. Those type loads we use in Trap or Sporting Clays where you are shooting 40 to 55 yard shots. They are not recommened for Cowboy Action SKB's or Brownings or any other S/S cowboy shotguns. These guns with action jobs will not hold up to the higher vol. Target Loads

 

 

 

Goatneck

 

Hey Clem

I sometimes shoot hotter loads like ones designed for trap when there are shotgun targets that people are having problems knocking down or far away shots.

I might shoot a box a season or probably much less

 

What kind of problems will this cause for my skb race gun?

 

Thanks

[August West, SASS #45079]

+2 Many out of spec shells in recent boxes of Winchester AA shot shells. They look like an elephant sat on some of 'em. I guess we have to use a shell checker on Winchester shells now to complete their quality control.

[Goatneck Clem]

Snakebite

 

I do not want to get off topic to far from Connecticutt Yankee's post. I will answer your question on the shotguns. Joe Garrison has a valid point with shotshell quality. Winchester's Target Loads have had a quality issue since 2011 of being out of Spec. Joe is right on the money with his statement about using a shotgun chamber gauge. I do not shoot a match without using a Chamber Gauge. Cowboy or otherwise. Now to answer your question Snakebite. Last year with the ammo issues shooters were having problems sourceing certain types of shotgun shells. They would buy shells that were avaiable and alot times they were the high velocity Target loads. . Once a double barrel shotgun has an action job done by a gunsmith for Cowboy Action Shooting it will limit the type of Target loads one can use. This does not include Mod 97's or Mod 12's. The low velocity shells for example reloads and Winchester Feather Lites or some other brand with the same velocities will work the best. At EOT last year I took back to my shop for repairs 8 doubles that had issues from shooting hot target loads. They were SKB's, Browning's,and Stoegers. The issues started with stripped out and bent screws in the forarms, and cracked forarms. Cracked stocks on the SKB's from the heavy recoil. Barrels loosen up on the receiver affecting head space. Plus other issues that developed from the heavy recoil. One SKB was locked up so bad I had to pull the gun apart to repair. The shooter could only find Sporting Clays Heavy loads to buy in town. He was from down under.. They were 1 1/8 Shot #7 1/2@ 1350 fps Velocity. .I hope this answered your question.

 

Good luck and Good Shooting..........Goatneck

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

I have even been noticing damaged brass heads on factory WIN AA hulls lately. Like maybe 1 per flat or so. Like the brass was crushed by the hull when they were assembling them.

 

These QC issues were prior to the mess that started this past November. I wonder what QC is like now that they are trying to spit shells out as fast as they can.

[Connecticut Yankee]

Thanks Guys all of your info was great i miked up a couple of the shells i was shooting and found some bulge about i/8" above the brass not noticable to the naked eye and they went into the shotgun easily but would not come out. I am going back to my relads they work fine all the time. These were AA light Target loads 1 1/8 oz 7&1/2 shot. I use the same in my loads so it has to be quality controle.

 

Thanks again for the interesting discussion.

 

 

Ct Yankee

[Krazy Kajun]

Goatneck Clem....that's good information regarding using heavier loads in an SKB shotgun...thanks for sharing that.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Snakebite

 

I do not want to get off topic to far from Connecticutt Yankee's post. I will answer your question on the shotguns. Joe Garrison has a valid point with shotshell quality. Winchester's Target Loads have had a quality issue since 2011 of being out of Spec. Joe is right on the money with his statement about using a shotgun chamber gauge. I do not shoot a match without using a Chamber Gauge. Cowboy or otherwise. Now to answer your question Snakebite. Last year with the ammo issues shooters were having problems sourceing certain types of shotgun shells. They would buy shells that were avaiable and alot times they were the high velocity Target loads. . Once a double barrel shotgun has an action job done by a gunsmith for Cowboy Action Shooting it will limit the type of Target loads one can use. This does not include Mod 97's or Mod 12's. The low velocity shells for example reloads and Winchester Feather Lites or some other brand with the same velocities will work the best. At EOT last year I took back to my shop for repairs 8 doubles that had issues from shooting hot target loads. They were SKB's, Browning's,and Stoegers. The issues started with stripped out and bent screws in the forarms, and cracked forarms. Cracked stocks on the SKB's from the heavy recoil. Barrels loosen up on the receiver affecting head space. Plus other issues that developed from the heavy recoil. One SKB was locked up so bad I had to pull the gun apart to repair. The shooter could only find Sporting Clays Heavy loads to buy in town. He was from down under.. They were 1 1/8 Shot #7 1/2@ 1350 fps Velocity. .I hope this answered your question.

 

Good luck and Good Shooting..........Goatneck

I have been shooting Remington STS Light Target loads, 1 1/8 oz at 1145 fps. Are these likely to create SKB issues? I shoot these as the SKBs seem to be thrown from the SKBs easier than AA. Only damage I have seen to date from several SKBs I have shot are very small cracks on a couple at the receiver stock interface, I always consided the cracks were due to the pointed curvy receiver/wood interface. What say you?

[Dirt Merchant # 61422]

I have been shooting Remington STS Light Target loads, 1 1/8 oz at 1145 fps. Are these likely to create SKB issues? I shoot these as the SKBs seem to be thrown from the SKBs easier than AA. Only damage I have seen to date from several SKBs I have shot are very small cracks on a couple at the receiver stock interface, I always consided the cracks were due to the pointed curvy receiver/wood interface. What say you?

The scalloping on the SKB stocks is certainly a weak point in the design. They are however thick enough to withstand our game with just a little forethought and maintenance. The primary reason the stocks split is a loose stock bolt. Second is the recoil lug is not properly seated when the gun is reassembled. Allow the T-block to remain slightly loose when putting the stock back on and tightening the stock bolt inside the stock...then tighten down the recoil T block, it will now be set in the proper position to absorb the recoil and reduce stock issues