Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118 Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Local 73 mechanic has his hands on one of the new Winchesters form Japan, carrier, lifter arm and links reported to be differrent dimensions than current Uberti production. It's going to be a while before we see shrt stroke kits. TB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone SASS #36388 Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 I just got in another shipment in today. I took one of the apart to look inside, very clean no tooling marks to speak of. pin size are smaller holding toggle links. I tried a pair of factory links ,they bind the gun up at full stroke. I'm sure all the cowboy mechanics will have short stokes out soon. Thanks T-Bone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 I just got in another shipment in today. I took one of the apart to look inside, very clean no tooling marks to speak of. pin size are smaller holding toggle links. I tried a pair of factory links ,they bind the gun up at full stroke. I'm sure all the cowboy mechanics will have short stokes out soon. Thanks T-Bone Go ahead and take mine apart! Do a little buffing here, a little spring work there. Get it ready for when I pick it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Well, got in and took it all apart. Made a few changes here and there, and it is very nice. IMO, it is a much better quality machine that the Uberti. It was better out of the box than a Out of the box Uberti, and the average guy could have taken it around the block. But... IMO, it was not ready for a good driver to take it to the track. Needed to do some work on the bolt, the extension, the safety spring, and the hammer spring. Other than the bolt safety, nothing that I would not have done to a Uberti. Had to stop myself from cutting and wielding to shorten it just tad... I've sworn off that... I'm sure that the there will be some parts available very soon....... I'll wait. Snkebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Some questions: 1. Did they pick up the serial numnbers where they left off, or did they start over with a new numbering scheme? 2. What barrell length(s) does the thing come in? 3. Has the design been "updated" any with modern features, or is it a faithful recreation like the Uberti's seem to be? 4. Do they have a "rifle" or "shotgun" style buttplate? 5. Would .38 Long Colt work in these things with no modifications? To be honest, #3 is the most important question to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Some questions: 1. Did they pick up the serial numnbers where they left off, or did they start over with a new numbering scheme? No 2. What barrell length(s) does the thing come in? 20" round barrel 3. Has the design been "updated" any with modern features, or is it a faithful recreation like the Uberti's seem to be? It has a different Firing pin extension that has a block on it.. It doesn't show when the action is closed.. and is easy to defeat. It has a flat hammer spring, that runs on the bottom of a Hammer roller, like a Colt SAA. It seems to work very well. The Ubertis are not a faithful recreation.. these are at least as authentic as the Ubertis are. 4. Do they have a "rifle" or "shotgun" style buttplate? Rifle (Cresent) 5. Would .38 Long Colt work in these things with no modifications? I don't have any 38 Long Colt loaded, but wouldn't run them even if they do work. I see no reason to push cartridges In and Out of the magazine every time the action is cycled. To be honest, #3 is the most important question to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sam, SASS #34718L Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I have not seen one of the "New" Winchesters yet... But I do own several originals. I understand that the links, lifter & such in the "New" ones are VERY close to the Originals..... I do Know that Pioneer standard short stroke links, with some "Very" Tender Loving care and lots of hand fitting, will work in an Original 2nd model Winchester mfg in 1881... I Know cuz I shoot one with em in it !! Had to modify the Original Lifter..... but the Links Will Fit !!!!! And she is Sweet Goody.... You wanna Short Stroke that little puppy ?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slate mike sass#29204 Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Thank God for the "List." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 H.K. Uriah Confirmed with two different guns... will not run the short rounds... Works well with 1.5 OAL Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Snakebite, thanks for the answers to my questions. They've got me thinking about possibilities. I do have one need for clarification. When I asked if they picked up serial numbers where they left off, or if they started something new, you said, "no." No, they didn't start over, or no, they didn't pick up? I am confused. To bad they won't work with Long Colts, I am loading that cartridge for use in a couple of older pistols, and it woulda been nice to have rifle to go with them. Oh well, not a great loss, and I really didn't expect they would, but you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 They did not continue the S/N where they left off... it is a new numbering system. The carrier could be modified to handle the Long Colt. Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashknife Cowboy Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I don't not need another gun, I don't not need another gun, I don't not need another gun...who am I trying to kid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Need has nothing to do with it! sb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Snakebite, thanks for the answers to my questions. They've got me thinking about possibilities. I do have one need for clarification. When I asked if they picked up serial numbers where they left off, or if they started something new, you said, "no." No, they didn't start over, or no, they didn't pick up? I am confused. To bad they won't work with Long Colts, I am loading that cartridge for use in a couple of older pistols, and it woulda been nice to have rifle to go with them. Oh well, not a great loss, and I really didn't expect they would, but you never know. That's why you should never ask two contradictory questions in the same sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Well, The Winchester I have is a disappointment. I can only speak for the one Winchester I have in hand. I was hoping for great things with the new Winchester -- and, yes, I get very disappointed with Uberti, especially their latest bolt and carrier changes. The Winchester I have will not run .38s (unless loaded long) and jams if run slowly (as if out of time, and carrier pins empty on face of bolt in key-hole in back side of mortise for carrier) And, there is more.... The Winchester Machining is far superior The Winchester springs are far superior The Uberti wood finish and fit is superior The Uberti just "looks" better -- color case and oct. brl etc. The current Uberti breech bolts are POOP! (currently have 21 in to a machinist for rebuilding ) There are many after-market parts for Uberti There are a number of parts supply lines for Uberti Winchester parts supply lines are unknown (one reason I am reluctant to start experimenting on my Win.) The Win. link pins for toggle links are smaller than Uberti (I know the links are supposed to seat on the outside radius and not rest on the pins but, in practice, most of the Ubertis do not bear on the outside of the link radius (end), but rather; bear on the pins -- I like larger pins The hole at the rear of the receiver that the Fire pin extension goes through is a very important wear surface and the Win. has less bearing surface at this point due to machining to accommodate their firing pin extension, inertia operated, safety locking little block thingee. I do not believe it would be possible to use the Win. lever and lifter springs with any short stroke toggles (top of spring hit bottom of toggle) -- so, they are a definite replacement even though they are far better than Uberti's truck springs The Win. carrier is a study in allowing some engineer to redesign a gunsmith parts. Their attempt to get it to eject to the right has put a very large cut on the right side of the very top (this delays the carrier smacking the empty off the face of the bolt) and they put no cut (bevel) on the left side of the inside of the back, top parallel rear-most edges (yeah, I know, that is convoluted but you will figure it out) all of this adds up to the thing running as if it is out of time (delayed carrier rise) but you can't re-time it because the rim of the round in the rising carrier already clips the lower tab on the bolt ---- Additionally, Win. kept a very steep ramp on the front of the carrier (as in the original Win) which causes problems with short rounds (it won't run .38s loaded at standard 1.44 OAL for .38s) Now,,,, of course all this carrier stuff could be re-machined and I could try to fill their large cut on the top, but why should I have to? And, I'm reluctant to get too far carried away without a parts supply Of interest is the fact that Uberti originally ditched the original Winchester firing pin re-tractor in favor of a cross pin to hold the firing pin extension in place. Uberti has now ditched their "pin" idea and use a key that is the same as the top half of the original Winchesters firing pin re-tractor --- Uberti liked Winchester's original idea . This new Winchester has ditched their original "key" and have elected to use Uberti's cross pin method --- Winchester liked Uberti's original idea . I would really like to see a fine, new '73 on the market so that we have an option . It seems to me that, if Winchester was really serious about establishing a long term presence in this market they would have designed the new gun so as to use most of the current aftermarket parts (unless some kind of international patent might apply - which I find doubtful). If so, they could have simply shoe-horned into the market nice and smooth . I do not expect parts suppliers to spend the time and money tooling up for a new line of Winchester-only parts until Winchester is firmly established a market share. Also, if Winchester was planning more than another "1886 or 1892 run of limited duration", it seems they would have had a parts supply line established -- "you never get a second chance to make a first impression!" And, yes, Win. can make changes and improvements, if their sales seem to warrant it. But I am doubtful (but hopeful) that they will. There are dozens of Cowboy gunsmiths in this country that could improve on Winchester's new rifle in a few days. I have said a bunch here. Probably not the best place to say it -- I was just soooo hopeful. Winchester has the resources to do better! Just my personal opining and observations on one, single gun. Your mileage may vary. Palo Verde (Snakbite, tried to send this to you) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Thanks, PV, for an interesting and informative post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I spent a day playing with mine, and making a few simple changes. The gun runs great and is very smooth. It is a fact that untouched, it will not run short rounds. But that sure does not effect me... I always have run the proper length ammo in my rifles. I''ve never liked pushing cartridges in and out of the magazine. There is no doubt what so ever that the quality of this gun is much better than the Uberti. The pins on the toggles are indeed smaller... but only a small bit smaller.... more like the original Winchester. The carrier does indeed have the notch on the one side trying to kick the empty case out to the right. I don't see it as a problem except it might aggravate a left handed shooter, who might want to change it. The new arraignment on the hammer spring works GREAT, and IMO is a tremendous improvement. It is smoother and loads up more evenly. As for after market parts... of course they are not available yet... but I've not found many parts that I would replace. The springs on the lever and lifter are great... they run on a much superior cam surface, and i doubt that it will every wear out. As for toggles.... the toggles are not much different than the Uberti... other that the holes being a tiny bit smaller, the only real difference is the thickness on the bottom side of the links. After market links are ALREADY in the works. I think that the easiest after market accessory that folks will want will be the firing pin extension, to replace the one with the hammer block safety. The existing one is easy to alter, but making a direct replacement would be easy. IMO, there is much less work to be done on this gun to make it run than there is on a Uberti. I don't think that there will be as much after market "Stuff" made for this gun as there is with the Uberti.... it just doesn't need that much. With a minimal amount of work, this gun will run. Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel Rifleman, SASS # 23477 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Found this review on GunsAmerica with side by side photos with a Uberti. http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/winchester-model-1873-cowboy-rifle-new-gun-review/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Nicktem, SASS #47284 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 The other day I was surprised to see a local gun shop had a new Winchester 1873, and along side of it, a Uberti 1873. It was great to be able to check out the new Winchester and have a Uberti stock model next to it to compare with. I have always used either an 1866 or an 1873 Uberti and have never had a problem with Uberti. I have always considered them to be well-made guns. I found it a bit shocking when I started reading on here that people were considering them to be cheaply made, poor in construction, and overall a problematic gun. That did not seem at all fitting to my experiences. Now that I have held and examined the new Winchester, I can almost see why people have those thoughts. There is no denying that the new Winchester is a very well made gun. The action is smooth, and yet, for a lack of a better term, solid. I look forward to seeing what other models and styles Winchester will come up with. I wouldn't mind a deluxe model like my Uberti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Found this review on GunsAmerica with side by side photos with a Uberti. http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/winchester-model-1873-cowboy-rifle-new-gun-review/ I "subscribed" to the GunsAmerica blog so received a notice of that review and read it with much interest. I thought it odd when the author said there was no advantage to being able to shoot .38 Special. I suppose he must get all of his brass for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I "subscribed" to the GunsAmerica blog so received a notice of that review and read it with much interest. I thought it odd when the author said there was no advantage to being able to shoot .38 Special. I suppose he must get all of his brass for free. That was one of the reasons that I made the Snakebite Bullet..... so it would load in a 38 case to 357 specs. Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hoss Carpenter, SASS Life 7843 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Hey Grizzly Adams, thanks so much for the site you sent me on how to remove the rebounding hammer on the new Winchester 92. I have a CAS friend who is very savy with guns and he did the work for me, including a lighter hammer spring. The 92 (44-40) is indeed a "new gun"; I love it and it is very smooth. It will never replace my "Full Race" 73, but in the long range (100 yd) pistol cal. it will be great! Cheers, Hoss Carpenter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Adams 3674 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Hey Grizzly Adams, thanks so much for the site you sent me on how to remove the rebounding hammer on the new Winchester 92. I have a CAS friend who is very savy with guns and he did the work for me, including a lighter hammer spring. The 92 (44-40) is indeed a "new gun"; I love it and it is very smooth. It will never replace my "Full Race" 73, but in the long range (100 yd) pistol cal. it will be great! Cheers, Hoss Carpenter Your most welcome, Hoss! Enjoy that 92. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejano Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I know this thread is almost a month old but I have to ask, is it worth selling my Uberti Trapper 1873 in 357 and getting my hands on one of these winchesters? The only modification I have made to my Uberti is the addition of a marbels tang sight. I realyl like the finish and look of these new Wincheters and they seem to be getting great reviews. I wish I could afford both... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted June 20, 2013 Author Share Posted June 20, 2013 I know this thread is almost a month old but I have to ask, is it worth selling my Uberti Trapper 1873 in 357 and getting my hands on one of these winchesters? The only modification I have made to my Uberti is the addition of a marbels tang sight. I realyl like the finish and look of these new Wincheters and they seem to be getting great reviews. I wish I could afford both... It would be for me. I had one of the 16 inch trappers and didn't really like it. I was swinging past targets due to the lightness of the front end. Alsi didn't care for the front sight arrangement. If I were you I would try and find someone who has one of the new Winchesters and try it if they will let you. Then decide for your self. I picked mine up this past Saturday and shot the match with it straight from the box. While not as smooth as my Cody gun, it was head and shoulders above a stock Uberti. I am very pleased with the gun as it is, and look forward to having a little done to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I know this thread is almost a month old but I have to ask, is it worth selling my Uberti Trapper 1873 in 357 and getting my hands on one of these winchesters? The only modification I have made to my Uberti is the addition of a marbels tang sight. I realyl like the finish and look of these new Wincheters and they seem to be getting great reviews. I wish I could afford both... If you decide to get rid of the trapper let me know. It's just what I'm looking for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejano Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Are there any New Winchester 1873 owners that would like to trade for a Uberti?? EDG I sent ya pm about possibly selling my trapper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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