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Rank Scoring


charlietwogunz

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I love rank scoring. It should be instituted everywhere along with on the clock non shooting procedures (i.e.,, shoot first pistol then run across way, remove noose from Dastardly Don, run back and shoot second pistol......).

I also like a lot of reactive targets on stages with no chance to make up with other gun.

Seriously, I like all of this. Anything that puts the "action" into "Cowboy Action" and turns a speed race into more of a marathon.

Seriously...how does this effect Rank Scoring?

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Georgia State, South Carolina and Alabama are all total time.

 

 

I've shot four state championships in the last 12 months and they were all total time matches.

Yep, bout all the state and annual matches I've been to were TT, I like where a miss is 5 seconds and a P is 10 ;) . I don't understand why SASS doesn't allow TT for regionals if that's what the host club and shooters want :wacko: What's the dif to EOT what we do on the other side of the country :huh: I'm just saying. Good Luck :)

 

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

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GCK, you keep referencing how "all these matches" use TT. Where is your data? Of the 50 states, assuming each has a SASS Championship, how many are using TT? You're certainly vwelcome to your opinion, as is evryone else. Just don't use hollow tacticsto try and bolster your opinion.

So which state championship matches still use Rank Scoring. Have shot four in last couple of years and they had all changed back to total time or had never gone to rank scoring. A while back there was an informal survey on the Wire of state championship match scoring and there were a lot more using total time now than rank scoring. Ufortunately we can not search very far back anymore.

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My point is it doesn't really matter. It does nothing to bolster your opinion or diminish the opinion of someone who prefers rank scoring. You seem andothers seem to use a small sampling of matches that have changed to say that anyone for rank is wrong. An opinion is just that, it can be neither right nor wrong.

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Really folks...let's keep rank points...WB like it...that's why WB Shoots are scored Rank...wait...is it????

 

No, I think Rank is good cuz...ya never know who's going to win. You'll know who was the best over the whole match (cuz you'll add up the scores and get the TT), but you'll not know who won the Big Buckle until the computer churns out the magical Rank results.

 

Oh, and this isn't about FAIRNESS...pullllease. It's about having the most accurate score method to best determine the placements of the participants. If you think it's Rank, then state that!!!!! Stop with the "oh, it's just a matter of preference". Notice how those in favor of TT try and use stats, facts, arguments...while the Rank argument seems to always go to some other sport analogy.

 

Until you address the variation in penalties produced by Rank, I'll never see it in a preferable way. Yes, Rank is probably the only way I'll be able to win Overalls these days...but...oh well, sucks getting old!

 

Phantom

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Statement:

Yes it has changed who wins at major matches. Just one big example of how the Wild Bunch does not care what the majority of it's customers want. Many major matches have stopped using rank scoring because the majority of shooters wanted the change.

 

Challenge:

GCK, you keep referencing how "all these matches" use TT. Where is your data? Of the 50 states, assuming each has a SASS Championship, how many are using TT? You're certainly vwelcome to your opinion, as is evryone else. Just don't use hollow tacticsto try and bolster your opinion.

Every subsequent post mentions State matches that use TT, looks like 10-0, roughly, with no responses mentioning States that are using Rank Points.

 

Response:

My point is it doesn't really matter. It does nothing to bolster your opinion or diminish the opinion of someone who prefers rank scoring. You seem andothers seem to use a small sampling of matches that have changed to say that anyone for rank is wrong. An opinion is just that, it can be neither right nor wrong.

<_<

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My point is it doesn't really matter. It does nothing to bolster your opinion or diminish the opinion of someone who prefers rank scoring. You seem andothers seem to use a small sampling of matches that have changed to say that anyone for rank is wrong. An opinion is just that, it can be neither right nor wrong.

The issue is what do the majority of shooters want. Many match directors listen to their customers.

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Hell Phatom , I cant even win by rank any more. I've won my share by rank point matches as well as alot of you have, some of those I would have lost by TT. The ones I won by some juiced up magical mathematical concoction never set right with me. Remember the customers always Right or is he ! Hells Comin

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Statement:

 

Challenge:

Every subsequent post mentions State matches that use TT, looks like 10-0, roughly, with no responses mentioning States that are using Rank Points.

 

Response:

<_<

 

 

I believe there are 4 states named, 10 vague references, of which 4 could be the same named states. But even if it is 10 different states that is 20% of the total states. Texas was rank until 4 years ago, then was TT twice, rank again once and TT this year. So whicjh side can claim victoory here. But again, that doesn't matter. I am simply pointing out that it doesn't cxhange anyones opinion. I don't give gfive a tinkers damn which way a match is scored, But for all of you that are so dead set one way or the other be sure and not attend any matches scored by the method you abhor. That will show the real evidence, not coming on here and grousing because one method or the other screwed you out of some cheap award and the fame that goes with it.

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Again, I don't think folks are going to boycott a match because of the scoring system...but that don't mean we shouldn't weigh the positives and negatives.

 

99.9% of us will shoot a match regardless cuz we're not in it for the huge amount fame that comes with the big titles. We do care about the competition and trying to come up with the most accurate measure of performance as that leads to respect of the results.

 

Phantom

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I believe there are 4 states named, 10 vague references, of which 4 could be the same named states. But even if it is 10 different states that is 20% of the total states. Texas was rank until 4 years ago, then was TT twice, rank again once and TT this year. So whicjh side can claim victoory here. But again, that doesn't matter. I am simply pointing out that it doesn't cxhange anyones opinion. I don't give gfive a tinkers damn which way a match is scored, But for all of you that are so dead set one way or the other be sure and not attend any matches scored by the method you abhor. That will show the real evidence, not coming on here and grousing because one method or the other screwed you out of some cheap award and the fame that goes with it.

I don't much care one way or another. As I said before I have a mild preference for TT. I'm merely responding to the fact that you accused GCK of pulling figures out of his behind, yet when every single response supported his original contention (five state matches in the Southeast, FL, GA, SC, AL, and a shooter from Michigan who says his last four were also TT), you change your argument to say the original point doesn't matter. Whoops I edited to take out LA, my mistake.
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I don't much care one way or another. As I said before I have a mild preference for TT. I'm merely responding to the fact that you accused GCK of pulling figures out of his behind, yet when every single response supported his original contention (six state matches in the Southeast, FL, GA, SC, AL, LA, and a shooter from Michigan who says his last four were also TT), you change your argument to say the original point doesn't matter.

OK, you win. Get yourself a pretty ribbon on the way out.

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Michgan has been total time for the last 7 years :D I will shoot both. Honestly I straight up have more fun at TT matches period. I shoot them differently. If you don't good for you. My strategy has worked pretty well for me over the years. As far as match production goes I learned along time ago that the shooters will create the challenge among themselves. Have seen many feeble attempts to "write in challenge" to stages.

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Here's a partial list of total time state matches. I knew some of them. Most I went to the shooting events tab and looked at the remaining schedule for the year. Any state matches that have already taken place and I didn't know where they were held I couldn't look up. Some on the ones I looked at didn't have any way to tell. I would bet that better than half the states are total time.

 

Florida

Georgia

Alabama

South Carolina

California

Arizona

Ohio

North Carolina

Iowa

Wyoming

Colorado

Oregon

North Dakota

South Dakota

Illinois

Alaska

Montana

Minnesota

Washington

Kentucky

Michigan

Maine

Oklahoma

Nevada

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But as far as matches being run TT or Rank.

 

In more than 8 YEARS. I have only shot 2 total time annual or above matches.

 

And I shoot around more than the average bear.

 

But if clubs want to go TT. I am OK with that also. Just tell me the rules and how you are going to score it.

And I will figure it out from there.

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In Texas, it seems to be a regional thing.

 

Up north seems to prefer Rank...here in the central parts TT seems to be preferred.

 

We had the State Match this year and we chose TT.

 

Cheers!

 

Phantom

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DOOOOOD... that's cuz your were the friggin' Match Director....just sayin' doesn't count in the Rhandom sample...

 

OY!

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They should give awards to winners of both TT & Rank point at the same match. To 10th place, no less. That should make more folks happy.

I don't think the argument is centered around making everyone "Winners"...But certainly we can agree that we...the general population of SASS, would like a scoring system that best measures the performance of the competitors.

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Stan totally beat me to it. Here are links to sign up forms, scores or website info to prove which scoring method these west coast state matches use:

 

 

WA State: TT

http://rucascowboys.com/Westmatch_2012/2012%20Westmatch%20Entry%20Form.pdf

OR State: TT

http://merlinmaraudercowboys.com/root/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/2013-9th-Annual-State-Match-Applic-FINAL.pdf

CA State: TT

http://5dogscreek.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/5DC_Registration_2013_Fillable2.pdf

ID State: TT

http://www.idahocowboyaction.org/ica/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=PkIA2k_dA4Q%3d&tabid=73&mid=415

NV State: TT

http://www.eldoradocowboys.com/shoots/eldorado2013/ec2013_registration_v2.pdf

AZ State: TT

http://www.bordertowncas.com/match_info.php

MT State: TT

http://www.sunriverrangers.com/jul12.html

 

I did my best but couldn't figure out Utah from their website. I'm sure someone here knows.

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Maybe we should just go ahead a make all matches total time... it'll make my transistion to 3-gun all that much easier. I'll get to shoot my semi-autos while walking and chewing gum (I'd run if I was younger), get to shoot smaller targets at really ridiculous distances, and LOTS of shotgun instead of the paltry 4 rounds per stage "most" cowboys seem to like. But then, I liked little targets at distances greater than 21 feet, 10 second misses, 30 second minor safeties, and a SDQ for a SOG penalty.

 

Frankly, y'all don't shoot in a vacuum. There are other competitors there... if you shoot fastest, don't miss and/or otherwise screw up... you're going to win no matter WHAT scoring method is used. EVERY finsh position after 1st is a loss... regardless of the scoring method. So... I ask, is what I'm hearing you say, is that using total time makes you feel better when you lose?

 

There are OTHER scoring methods that are better than either total time or rank points. Come up with a better solution that TT. Doc Shapiro... I've come about... tacking against the wind now.

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Rank Points effectivley cancels the need for catigories as You are shooting against All Shooters ,,,,, NO matter what class you choose .........

 

Women shoot against Kids,,,, Kids shoot against Men ,,,,, Men shoot against Old Men ,,,,, Old Men shoot against Young Men ........

Etc ...........

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Read the first post & thought.... OMG not again..........well didn't look any further went straight the "Reply to this topic."

And this is it :lol::lol::lol:

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Rank Points effectivley cancels the need for catigories as You are shooting against All Shooters ,,,,, NO matter what class you choose .........

 

Women shoot against Kids,,,, Kids shoot against Men ,,,,, Men shoot against Old Men ,,,,, Old Men shoot against Young Men ........

Etc ...........

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

That has always been what I didn't get. If you want to score rank, seems like an OK way to do it to me. But when figuring out category winners, why not score it rank separately for each category? You could also then rank everyone in the same pool for the overall top 10.

 

But then again, we've all beat this horse to death years ago.

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"But then again, we've all beat this horse to death years ago."

 

Amen, brother amen.

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