Stage Descriptions

[Dubious Don #56333]

I thought the scenarios well written to the extent that they gave the shooter the option on how to shoot them.

Round count vs target engagement.

One problem also lies with 12 Posse Leaders who each heard the description and then told the posse otherwise. You know the game, whisper in one persons ear and have it passed around a circle and it comes out different at the end.

The only way to avoid this is Berm Marshals. I know, EOT had some problems with berm marshals, but once the book made it clear that the berm marshal had no input on misses, procedurals, safety or disqualifications, it seemed to work well.

The BM only reads the stage scenarios and answers questions regarding engagement.

That way every shooter hears the same instructions the same way.

 

On one of the stages at the OP match, there were to be as many rifle rounds at a 2second bonus target but remembering you still had to knock down the targets on the rack. Once you shot at the rack, you could not go back to the bonus target. Any shots remaining after knocking down the rack had to go on a dump target. Only plates standing and misses on the dump target counted as misses.

Pretty easy right.

Well one posse leader told his posse that one shot must go on the dump target.

One posse leader told his posse, if they put four on the knock downs, they could go back and shoot the bonus target as long as they saved one for the last knockdown.

Berm Marshals would have prevented these mistakes.

The only problem is, people want to shoot not be berm marshals. Like EOT, allow the BM's and officials shoot thru's on the side match days so they can attend to their duties.

 

 

Berm Marshals have had some serious problems....they are unnecessary IF.....you have a decent meeting with the Posse Marshals and explain things sufficiently. Perhaps this wasn't done (see underline italics above) given this example. Not having seen the actual stage description it's hard to make a judgement but I'll take a crack at it. If I got it right, the shooter, with rifle engages a bonus target first, THEN the plate rack using as many rounds as needed to take down the plates. THEN, any remaining rounds go on the dump plate. How a Posse Marshal can say "ONE ROUND HAS TO GO ON THE DUMP" when EVERYWHERE else, in similar stages, you shoot ten rounds to take down five plates and have none left for the dump plate and that's the way its supposed to be shot. Again, it depends on the description and how it was worded. Assuming it was worded as above, I don't get how a PM can say one round HAS to go on the dump.

[Flying W Ramrod]

DD, I was a posse leader at this match, the posse walk was well run and all questions and issues raised were addressed.

There is always a group of PM's that will put emphasis on how they want the stage to be shot regardless of how it was described.

There was another stage with, up to three, shooting positions. Use as many as required.

Best positions for the pistols was the far left, the rifle the center and the shotgun the far right.

From the center you could see all targets, the pistols were at a big angle, the shotgun, except the far right target, good.

You could should from the center position and, being careful, hit the pistols, rifle and shotgun targets.

A lot of shooters shot pistol from the far left, rifle and shotgun from the center.

There was no requirement to use all three positions.

You could start at any position

A posse leader told his posse, you shoot the pistols from here, the rifle from here and the shotgun form here.

When asked about the printed scenario saying the shooter was going to shoot rile and shotgun from the center then move to the far left for pistols, told the shooter "why would you do something dumb like that"

The PM was trying to get everyone to shoot it his way.

Berm Marshals would stop that.

I know there have been problems with BM's but the Match Director should be able to instruct the BM's in their dutys i.e. read the scenario, answer questions and adjudicate procedural calls.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

I think Phantom summarized the issue well. some folks like to be told exactly what to do more than others.

 

And a few want to tell everyone else exactly what to do.

 

Best learn and adapt. Makes life more interesting and fun. And if you feel better being told exactly what do do, just tell the Posse Marshal that and ask for one good way to shoot it. Then follow their instructions and pay no attention to how others shoot it. (But don't penalize others that shoot it differently but still within the rules/procedure.)

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

The answer is not in choosing whether to use posse marshals or berm marshals, neither will totally eliminate brain farting or inconsistency in how one posse deals with a stage vs. another. The same person(s) who screws up as a posse marshal will do so as a berm marshal. Both systems can work well, but when posse marshals and berm marshals are chosen, it should be done carefully. It's just too important in insuring that a match is consistent/fair for all. A knowledgeable and open mind is critical.

[Shamrock Sadie]

I'm for making the instructions clear.

I used to teach computer shtuff, traveling to different places every week and teaching different students all the time. Everyone's brains do not work the same and unfortunately we can't read each other's minds. So you have to give specific instructions at the lowest level if you want to keep people from making mistakes. Otherwise you're setting up a P trap. However, if your intent is to set up a P trap or your stubborn and you think everyone should understand your loosely written stages (even though people are advising you that perhaps the stages should be more specific), then you can count on your shooter count dwindling away, because folks are going to go to other places to shoot, instead of your club, if they have that option.

 

We have to keep in mind that the stages need to be clear for new shooters and experienced shooters that have never shot at a particular club. Now most experienced shooters will ask if it is ok to shoot the stage a certain way if there is any chance of confusion. But why not write the stages with how you want it shot.

 

If the shooter can shoot it in any order, then perhaps it should read like this:

"With pistols, place 3 rounds on P1, 4 rounds on P2, AND 3 rounds on P3 in any order." Notice I didn't use the word "then", but used "and".

 

If a shooter has to shoot a sweep, then perhaps write it like this:

"With pistols, sweep the pistol targets by placing 3 rounds on P1, 4 rounds on P2, THEN 3 rounds on P3, starting from the left or the right." Notice I didn't use the word "and", but used "then". I could have left out "starting from the left it right, but then some shooters would think that they have to start on the left. To lessen the confusion, why not just be specific about what you want the shooter to do.

 

Notice that I also capitalized the words "AND" and "THEN" to emphasize the order of the shot string, or lack thereof.

 

Ultimately, it is the shooter's responsibility to ask the RO if you can shoot it a certain way. The time to ask is when the stage writer was not specific on their instructions.

 

For the experienced shooter, if you see there is a chance of shooters getting a P on a stage due to poorly written instructions, then ask the RO questions while the posse is together listening to the instructions. Some folks, especially the new ones, may not know they can ask questions and some may feel intimidated by asking a question.

 

Don't hold back your thoughts on how to shoot the stage just because you think it will give you an edge over the other shooters. Offer suggestions to the stage writers and help each other out on the posse if you think they don't understand the scenario...it's the cowboy/cowgirl way.

[Flying W Ramrod]

BDL, you're right about the pm screwup as a bm screwup but, the stage scenarios are the same with a bm screwup, not 12 potentially different interpretations of the scenario.

Only other way to do it is eliminate all scenarios and just, put 10 rifle, 10 pistol and xx shotgun down range, record your time and the fastest wins.

Not liking that either.

[Cowboy Junky]

I write stages like that every month and for the State match. I do think they could have been made a "little" more clear. IMHO these stages give the shooters of every category a means to shoot the stage to their best ability. Key things that stuck out to me in this thread were:

 

Some shooter's over think them
"In any order and/or Round count" are key terms for clarity
Good posse Marshall’s and a walk through are a must (at a big match)

If you are NOT sure ask the MD.......that's bypassed to much IMO

 

When I first saw this type of stage writing it was at the first US Open (I think T-Bone wrote em') and I saw the beauty in them right away. Some people like to have the option to think through a stage and others like to be told exactly what to do. Sometimes an Example OR even painting the targets a different color can really make everyone happy.

[Haole]

For the first 6 stages on day one I interpreted the instructions correctly and shot the 3,2,2,3 correctly. Pistols ontside in for a 3 and a 2 then another 3 and 2 but did the rifle left to right 3,2,2,3. No problem.

 

Then on day 2 the PM got confused on the descriptions and gave one example with only 9 shots that added up to a 3,4,2. His second example had 10 shots that added up to a 3,3,4.

 

I got to thinking that I'd been making these stages more work than needed. I was wondering if a 4.3.3 or a 3.3.4 would also work.

 

So I asked if a 3,3,4 would work. The PM said yes. I shot a 3,3,4 and got a P. I complained but the PM didn't remember giving me those instructions and the MD was only interested in explaining how I should have shot the stage.

 

The match was in California. I'm now in Washington State and have asked local shooters here if they thought a "3.4.3 in any order" description was clear. They thought it was open to too many interpretations. So, it seems that local shooters in that area of California (and some other location based on above responses) are familiar with those instructions and know what they are supposed to do. But myself and many shooters elsewhere are doubtful as to what is expected of them.

 

Again, stage writers need to realize that many shooters at major matches are visitors and may not be familiar with local customs. We know Nevada Sweeps, etc.; but need more data on "3,2,2,3 any order" or "3.4.3 any order" instructions.

 

Haole

[Anvil Al #59168]

For the first 6 stages on day one I interpreted the instructions correctly and shot the 3,2,2,3 correctly. Pistols ontside in for a 3 and a 2 then another 3 and 2 but did the rifle left to right 3,2,2,3. No problem.

 

Then on day 2 the PM got confused on the descriptions and gave one example with only 9 shots that added up to a 3,4,2. His second example had 10 shots that added up to a 3,3,4.

 

I got to thinking that I'd been making these stages more work than needed. I was wondering if a 4.3.3 or a 3.3.4 would also work.

 

So I asked if a 3,3,4 would work. The PM said yes. I shot a 3,3,4 and got a P. I complained but the PM didn't remember giving me those instructions and the MD was only interested in explaining how I should have shot the stage.

 

The match was in California. I'm now in Washington State and have asked local shooters here if they thought a "3.4.3 in any order" description was clear. They thought it was open to too many interpretations. So, it seems that local shooters in that area of California (and some other location based on above responses) are familiar with those instructions and know what they are supposed to do. But myself and many shooters elsewhere are doubtful as to what is expected of them.

 

Again, stage writers need to realize that many shooters at major matches are visitors and may not be familiar with local customs. We know Nevada Sweeps, etc.; but need more data on "3,2,2,3 any order" or "3.4.3 any order" instructions.

 

Haole

 

 

That don't sound like a stage writing problem.

 

That sounds like a shooter over thinking it and not counting correctly.

Then looking to blame someone else for there mistake.

 

And yes. It leaves it open to OPTIONS. Which most shooters like.

You just over thought it.

 

I shoot all over. And see those type stages everywhere It's not a local thing.

[Haole]

Anvil,

 

I'm not blaiming anyone for anything. It was a great match and I had a great time. I tried to shoot the match the best I could and I got confused on one stage.

 

Like most major matches, the volunteers worked hard to put on a great match and many of them were exhausted by the end of the match. I fully appreciate their efforts.

 

However, we all can learn from our past experiences and I feel stage description need to take into account that visitors need more information than local shooters. I hope these match officials take my recommendations to heart and keep us visitors in mind when they prepare the shooters phamplet for their next match.

 

Haole

[Anvil Al #59168]

I am not local. I understood it.

Bunch of people on this thread are not local to there and understood it.

 

Those instructions was NOT a local thing.

[Boon Doggle]

If I am unsure about a way to shoot a stage, and it happens often at my age, I'll just ask one of the other shooters I know that usually has a good understanding of various was to shoot a stage.

 

'Course, I probably wouldn't ask Al. Or any Gunfighters, for that matter.

[bo bean 61280]

r1 3 times r2 4 times and r3 3 times any order. i'll change it next time. Paola is fun and good guy. a simple question should not have been so tough on him

[Anvil Al #59168]

If I am unsure about a way to shoot a stage, and it happens often at my age, I'll just ask one of the other shooters I know that usually has a good understanding of various was to shoot a stage.

 

'Course, I probably wouldn't ask Al. Or any Gunfighters, for that matter.

[Lou Graham, # 26112]

There are some local things that may/may not have made it to other parts of the country. I had shot SAS matches in various states for a number of years, so it's not like I was new the first time I heard the stage instuction round count only. Shooters choice was the term I was used to. There's some nice things about having options for shooters, but some other things about it have a downside.

 

Spotters: Better have some good ones. My stage instuction for this kind of stage includes a spotter warning "If you can't figure out where the shooter started, lose count or can't keep up with the shooter, that is NOT a P. Shooter gets benefit of the doubt, not spotters." Gunfighters are especially vulnerable to undeserved "P's" in shooter's choice stages as we will usually do something very different from the one gun at a time shooters to end up with the same amount of rounds on each of the targets.

 

If every single stage is going to be shooter's choice (or round count only) it would be good to mention that at the start of the match. If not, make it plain in the individual stage instruction. I would rather write a couple of extra sentences in the stage instructions than have the whole posse asking questions for 10 minutes after it is read. If a large portion of the posse doesn't "get it" take heed for the next time and be more specific about what is/is not allowed.

 

Stage writing is a tough job, expecially for a big match. Basic directions are fine but you have to anticipate the questions and then add in the answer before it is asked. That also helps the posse marshall to get it right, which is a big deal. Having an entire posse have to go back and re-shoot a stage because the PM got it wrong is a giant PITA. The walk-through is also important. If the PM's aren't taking notes on a multi-day match walk-through, they are either blessed with photograpic memory or shouldn't be a PM.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

I write stages like that every month and for the State match. I do think they could have been made a "little" more clear. IMHO these stages give the shooters of every category a means to shoot the stage to their best ability. Key things that stuck out to me in this thread were:

 

Some shooter's over think them

"In any order and/or Round count" are key terms for clarity

Good posse Marshall’s and a walk through are a must (at a big match)

If you are NOT sure ask the MD.......that's bypassed to much IMHO.

 

I agree, I write stages like that also, gives shooters of any category a chance to shoot it to suit them. If they need clarification then get it before you shoot the stage, when in doubt ask. Good Luck

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Griff]

For the first 6 stages on day one I interpreted the instructions correctly and shot the 3,2,2,3 correctly. Pistols ontside in for a 3 and a 2 then another 3 and 2 but did the rifle left to right 3,2,2,3. No problem.

 

Then on day 2 the PM got confused on the descriptions and gave one example with only 9 shots that added up to a 3,4,2. His second example had 10 shots that added up to a 3,3,4.

 

I got to thinking that I'd been making these stages more work than needed. I was wondering if a 4.3.3 or a 3.3.4 would also work.

 

So I asked if a 3,3,4 would work. The PM said yes. I shot a 3,3,4 and got a P. I complained but the PM didn't remember giving me those instructions and the MD was only interested in explaining how I should have shot the stage.

 

The match was in California. I'm now in Washington State and have asked local shooters here if they thought a "3.4.3 in any order" description was clear. They thought it was open to too many interpretations. So, it seems that local shooters in that area of California (and some other location based on above responses) are familiar with those instructions and know what they are supposed to do. But myself and many shooters elsewhere are doubtful as to what is expected of them.

 

Again, stage writers need to realize that many shooters at major matches are visitors and may not be familiar with local customs. We know Nevada Sweeps, etc.; but need more data on "3,2,2,3 any order" or "3.4.3 any order" instructions.

 

Haole

Bold red line #1, you were over-thinkin'.

 

Bold red line #2, PM was wrong. I'll say the MD wasn't, as... if you'd have had a witness, the outcome might have been different

 

Neither of which indicates the stage writer did anything wrong. I will tell you this, these things ebb and flow. Stage writing varies by region and goes in cycles... complicated, imaginative, sweeps will be in vogue, then it wil be simple, straight-forward ones... shooter's choice and set, in-flexible sequences; from detailed, wordy stage descriptions with a cohesive thread tying all stages together, then a minimalist, drawing and a round count.

 

Sometimes these are the results of personnel changes, others thru fatigue, burn-out, or even the result of visiting someplace new, seeing something different and getting a new fire going to change how they write stages... or see how they don't want to.

 

It sounds like you got caught in a communication warp... i.e.: "...I'm not sure what you heard is the same as I heard me say..."

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Okay folks, quit trying so hard to make an easy description hard...my gawd, what are we going to have to do next???? Make sure that regional dialects are taken into consideration when writing stages????

 

Geeeze...Oy!!!!!

[Griff]

Okay folks, quit trying so hard to make an easy description hard...my gawd, what are we going to have to do next???? Make sure that regional dialects are taken into consideration when writing stages????

 

Geeeze...Oy!!!!!

U'yup!

[Anvil Al #59168]

Okay folks, quit trying so hard to make an easy description hard...my gawd, what are we going to have to do next???? Make sure that regional dialects are taken into consideration when writing stages????

 

Geeeze...Oy!!!!!

 

 

+1

Let the ones that want to start on the left do so.

Let the ones that want to start on the right do so.

Let some of us odd ones that would start on the left and the right do so.

 

Stage writers are learning that we shooters like options.

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

I'm for making the instructions clear.

I used to teach computer shtuff, traveling to different places every week and teaching different students all the time. Everyone's brains do not work the same and unfortunately we can't read each other's minds. So you have to give specific instructions at the lowest level if you want to keep people from making mistakes. Otherwise you're setting up a P trap. However, if your intent is to set up a P trap or your stubborn and you think everyone should understand your loosely written stages (even though people are advising you that perhaps the stages should be more specific), then you can count on your shooter count dwindling away, because folks are going to go to other places to shoot, instead of your club, if they have that option.

 

We have to keep in mind that the stages need to be clear for new shooters and experienced shooters that have never shot at a particular club. Now most experienced shooters will ask if it is ok to shoot the stage a certain way if there is any chance of confusion. But why not write the stages with how you want it shot.

 

If the shooter can shoot it in any order, then perhaps it should read like this:

"With pistols, place 3 rounds on P1, 4 rounds on P2, AND 3 rounds on P3 in any order." Notice I didn't use the word "then", but used "and".

 

If a shooter has to shoot a sweep, then perhaps write it like this:

"With pistols, sweep the pistol targets by placing 3 rounds on P1, 4 rounds on P2, THEN 3 rounds on P3, starting from the left or the right." Notice I didn't use the word "and", but used "then". I could have left out "starting from the left it right, but then some shooters would think that they have to start on the left. To lessen the confusion, why not just be specific about what you want the shooter to do.

 

Notice that I also capitalized the words "AND" and "THEN" to emphasize the order of the shot string, or lack thereof.

 

Ultimately, it is the shooter's responsibility to ask the RO if you can shoot it a certain way. The time to ask is when the stage writer was not specific on their instructions.

 

For the experienced shooter, if you see there is a chance of shooters getting a P on a stage due to poorly written instructions, then ask the RO questions while the posse is together listening to the instructions. Some folks, especially the new ones, may not know they can ask questions and some may feel intimidated by asking a question.

 

Don't hold back your thoughts on how to shoot the stage just because you think it will give you an edge over the other shooters. Offer suggestions to the stage writers and help each other out on the posse if you think they don't understand the scenario...it's the cowboy/cowgirl way.

Although I had no difficulty understanding the instructions as written, I like this. It still uses few words, but is abundantly clear.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

If the shooter has full options - Then:

Using 10 rounds - engage T1 3x - T2 4x - T3 3x in any order

 

If we specifically desire the shooter to triple tap - quad tap - triple tap.

Using 10 rounds - Triple tap T1 and T3 - Quad tap T2 - shooters choice of target order.

 

If we want them to triple tap - quad tap - triple tap across the targets

Using 10 rounds - engage targets in a 3-4-3 sweep from either end.

 

If we want them to triple tap - quad tap - triple tap in a specific order

Using 10 rounds - engage targets Left to Right in a 3-4-3 sweep.

 

There is no need to be any more wordy than necessary - but if you desire a specific outcome, then you must direct the shooter to a specific outcome.

[Guest Winchester Jack, SASS #70195]

Haole

 

Not defending the stage instructions, I fill in one more piece of the puzzle: Both shooting days were hot and on Day 2 water and ice consumption was beyond the inventory on the range and had to be replenished. As you are from a hot climate perhaps you don't lose ability and reasoning power in the heat, but thats my take on the lesser number of clean shooters.

 

Fordyce Beals

The heat on Saturday really killed me. From 1 miss on Friday to 11 misses and 3 ps on Saturday it wasn't one of my better matches but NONE of my p's or misses came from target problems but brain dead screw-ups, especially with the dogs on stage 6

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

If the shooter has full options - Then:

Using 10 rounds - engage T1 3x - T2 4x - T3 3x in any order

 

If we specifically desire the shooter to triple tap - quad tap - triple tap.

Using 10 rounds - Triple tap T1 and T3 - Quad tap T2 - shooters choice of target order.

 

If we want them to triple tap - quad tap - triple tap across the targets

Using 10 rounds - engage targets in a 3-4-3 sweep from either end.

 

If we want them to triple tap - quad tap - triple tap in a specific order

Using 10 rounds - engage targets Left to Right in a 3-4-3 sweep.

 

There is no need to be any more wordy than necessary - but if you desire a specific outcome, then you must direct the shooter to a specific outcome.

Agree with your ideas Creeker. The first example, the full option, shooter has an advantage to go back to a target if they failed to place proper number of rounds there....of course the full option can be a bit of a burden on TO and spotters because they have to remember where a target might be needing another round to help shooter avoid P by going back to add that additional round. I like the full option so shooter can make their on "plan of attack". Agree that a quick brief to spotters and TO might be wise if shooter is going to do something a little out of the norm.....I find a good gunfighter often relays their plan to those with timer/sticks.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

We write many of our stages as shooters choice. They choose which gun to shoot and what order. They choose where they want to start. And they choose where to stage their guns. So lefties, gunfighters, competitive shooters or shooting for fun have there choice. We also give them a choice as to what side they start on for the targets.

 

The problem you run into is people over thinking the stage. Or not being able to deal with having to choose how to shoot it. In other words they are used to be told exactly how to do every part of the stage scenario.

 

We no longer include the instructions pistols loaded 5 rounds each and holstered. Thats the way it always is unless we have them start with gun in hand, or staged! And then we tell them. Kind of like the stage conventions.

 

The instructions given here are clear. Shoot the targets in any order as long as you end up with the right number of hits on each target. It may be tough on the counters but maybe they will pay attention!

 

Ike

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Agree with your ideas Creeker. The first example, the full option, shooter has an advantage to go back to a target if they failed to place proper number of rounds there....of course the full option can be a bit of a burden on TO and spotters because they have to remember where a target might be needing another round to help shooter avoid P by going back to add that additional round. I like the full option so shooter can make their on "plan of attack". Agree that a quick brief to spotters and TO might be wise if shooter is going to do something a little out of the norm.....I find a good gunfighter often relays their plan to those with timer/sticks.

 

BB:

 

I especially agree with your last sentence. Some spotters can really be thrown a curve ball by the way some GFer's approach a stage. And I think its a good curtesy to inform the TO and spotters when a GF is going to change up the norm.

 

 

..........Widder

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

BB:

 

I especially agree with your last sentence. Some spotters can really be thrown a curve ball by the way some GFer's approach a stage. And I think its a good curtesy to inform the TO and spotters when a GF is going to change up the norm.

 

 

..........Widder

Hi Widder and others,

 

This should not be the case, if the spotters would look at the targets, like they should, instead of looking at the guns, there wouldn't be a problem.

 

Folks who say that they don't like to spot for GFs or are confused by spotting for GFs need to be told to watch the targets. If they would give a P to a two-handed or duelist-style shooter, then it is a P for the GF. If they would not give a P to another type of shooter, then there is no P to the GF.

 

We had another thread recently that proved folks, even some GFs, are not aware of the correct way to engage the targets when shooting GF. Appropriate target engagement is no different than any other style shooter.

 

Regards,

 

Just Allie Mo

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Hi Dear Allie.

 

There are times, locally and big matches far away, that the scenerio called for the shooter to place 2 rounds each on 5 plates.....NO Double taps.

 

Most shooters would shoot it 1 thru 5 starting on the left target .... OR, 5 thru 1 starting on the right target.

 

Some GFer's would engage it starting with left pistol: 4,5,4,5,3,2,1,2,1,3. Or similar if starting with right pistol.

 

Yours Truly loves these stages and prefers to go: 3,4,2,5,1,3,2,4,1,5.

 

Thats the main reason I thinks its wise to inform folks on some stages.

 

Sure, everyone has those same options. But you won't see 2-handers and Duelist doing that way.

 

When it only takes about 3-4 seconds from 1st shot to last shot to clean this type of scenerio with pistols, ya want to make sure they know what you just did. And even then, they are often baffled.

 

Bestest Regards,

 

..........Widder

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Oh my, "3-4 seconds from 1st shot to last shot" in my dreams!

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Allie,

 

I would venture to say that alot of GFer's could run that scenerio in that time span. Maybe closer to 4 than 3. But none the less, quick.

 

If you look at the 4,5,4,5,3,2,1,2,1,3 sequence, you will notice that for the 1st four shots, your pistols are basically hooked up together on plates 4 and 5.

 

then when you swing over to the left side targets, your left pistol connects with plate 3 during your movement and then your right pistol connects to plate 2 and from there, your pistols are hooked into 2,1,2,1. THEN, with only a slight movement of the right hand, you finish with your last shot on plate 3 with the right pistol.

 

All this shooting requires very little movement, considering the scenerio.

 

Now if I may ask you a question........if you were spotting for me, would you not prefer that I tell you what I'm about to do?

 

Half the fun is not only watching good shooters run a stage with multiple options, but also knowing before hand what they intend to do and stand there and watch em do it.

 

..........Widder

[Mack Hacker, #60477]

First, let me say that I am against P traps.

 

Next, I don't see any in these instructions.

 

And last, where did the concept of striving for a certain percentage of clean matches come from?

[Griff]

Allie,

I would venture to say that alot of GFer's could run that scenerio in that time span.

If you look at the 4,5,4,5,3,2,1,2,1,3 sequence, you will notice that for the 1st four shots, your pistols are basically hooked up together on plates 4 and 5.

then when you swing over to the left side targets, your left pistol connects with plate 3 during your movement and then your right pistol connects to plate 2 and from there, your pistols are hooked into 2,1,2,1. THEN, with only a slight movement of the right hand, you finish with your last shot on plate 3 with the right pistol.

All this shooting requires very little movement, considering the scenerio.

Now if I may ask you a question........if you were spotting for me, would you not prefer that I tell you what I'm about to do?

Half the fun is not only watching good shooters run a stage with multiple options, but also knowing before hand what they intend to do and stand there and watch em do it.

..........Widder

Exactly why I felt I had to try to shoot GF if I was going to either spot or T/O for one. It certainly helps when they inform the T/O and Spotters of their intentions... but many don't think to do so.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Exactly why I felt I had to try to shoot GF if I was going to either spot or T/O for one. It certainly helps when they inform the T/O and Spotters of their intentions... but many don't think to do so.

Griff - some of us Gunfighters don't know ourselves how we are going to shoot it until the pistols leave the holsters.

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

Allie Mo,

 

"This should not be the case, if the spotters would look at the targets, like they should, instead of looking at the guns, there wouldn't be a problem. "

 

I would have to disagree with this statement somewhat. If 3-5 targets are spread out and shooter chooses to shot in a manner totally different than all other shooters that have come to line and says nothing to spotters (no rule says the shooter has to do this), then I can sympathize with a spotter who is looking at wrong target. If I was that spotter and confused by shot I would try to find next target but give BOD to target I did not see. This is the part that is tuff on spotters when a stage has full option to shooter....great for shooters but often it can startle a spotter.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Allie Mo,

 

"This should not be the case, if the spotters would look at the targets, like they should, instead of looking at the guns, there wouldn't be a problem. "

 

I would have to disagree with this statement somewhat. If 3-5 targets are spread out and shooter chooses to shot in a manner totally different than all other shooters that have come to line and says nothing to spotters (no rule says the shooter has to do this), then I can sympathize with a spotter who is looking at wrong target. If I was that spotter and confused by shot I would try to find next target but give BOD to target I did not see. This is the part that is tuff on spotters when a stage has full option to shooter....great for shooters but often it can startle a spotter.

Recently had this happen at an annual shoot.

 

Three rows of targets.

X........X.........X

X........X.........X

..........X

Engage the lower target 4x THEN engage the upper targets 1x each - any order.

As a Gunfighter

I engaged the lower target 4x -

then middle row 1st target - top row 1st target

middle row 2nd - top row 2nd

middle row 3rd - top row 3rd.

 

Had all three spotters telling me that I lost them when I changed rows.

Could a supported shooter shoot it in the same sequence? Yes, but I suspect you would never see it done that way.