Help identify this pistol please: S&W breakopen, lemon squeezer

[Widder, SASS #59054]

A friend just brought over this pistol:

 

S&W (appears to be .38 short)

SN: 86xxx

 

breakopen design

lemon squeezer

hammerless (internal hammer)

3.25" barrel

Appears to have the original black plastic grips on it with S&W logo.

 

Does anybody know the history on this and value?

 

I'm gona 'TRY' to post a pix of this soon.

 

thanks

 

 

..........Widder

[Rye Miles #13621]

I have one in 32 S&W from the year 1898. It was called a S&W Hammerless Safety. Mine is nickeled with most of it still intact. They go for around 400-500.

 

Rye

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Hard to say about the value, Widder. As always, condition is everything. Many of these old top breaks have been unknowingly beat to death with smokeless powder and have considerable cylinder end shake. I have one such pistol that belonged to my dad, who bought it back in the '40s from a pawn shop. It's worth maybe $50.

 

Good luck!

[Hogleg Hunter]

I bought one recently for $175 which I considered a good deal.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

There were five distinct models of S&W 38 Safety Hammerless revolvers. They can generally be easily distinguished by the style of latch. Here is a web page with a link to a photo of the five different models.

 

http://www.armchairgunshow.com/SW-TB-info.html

 

Most likely 38 S&W cartridge, not 38 Short Colt.

 

The serial number says it is a 2nd Model. The SN range for the 2nd Model was 5251 to 42483. The 2nd Model was produced from 1887 to 1890. Impossible to determine a value without knowing the condition.

 

I passed one up for $200 the other day and I am still kicking myself.

 

 

OOOooooppps! Just noticed there are five digits in your SN, not four. My mistake. 3rd Model. SN range 42484 to 116002. Produced from 1890 to 1898.

 

Here is a photo of my 3rd Model.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/38SafetyHammerless3rdModel.jpg

 

I think I paid around $200 for it, don't really remember.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Thanks for all the info Pards.

 

and thanks for the pixs Driftwood.

 

it looks like its a 2nd generation.

it has the pinned front side AND it has the 3 pins (or studs) located at the hammer/breakdown connection.

 

My friend was unofficially told that his might be worth approx $700. But he ain't selling.

 

It was passed down from his great grandfather, grandfather, and now him.

 

 

..........Widder

[Big Iron Patnode SASS 60632]

Widow, he can contact S&W and have it lettered. I have a 1907 lemon squeezer that has performed very well for me so I had it lettered. Also had Jim Downing do his thing on it!

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Thats good info. I'll pass that along to him.

 

Thanks Big Iron.

 

 

..........Widder

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Hoiwdy

 

Let's try this again.

 

S&W classified the different versions of the same gun as Models, not Generations like Colt did.

 

Your SN, 86xxx, puts it squarely in the middle of the 3rd Model SN range (42484-116002) . The identifying feature of the 3rd Model is the barrel latch protrudes above the frame and pushes down to release it. The1st Model had the Z bar latch which was pushed sideways to open. The 2nd Model had a latch that pushed down to release, but it was fitted to the contour of the frame. The 4th Model had a T-Bar shaped latch which lifted up to unlock the gun and had a pinned front sight. The 5th Model had the same latch as the 4th Model, but had a front sight forged solid with the frame.

 

Who ever told your friend it is worth $700 is full of hooey. The gun would have to be in as new condition to be worth that much or else have some serious factory engraving. Don't go by the inflated prices you might see on Gun Broker, no serious collector would pay some of the prices listed there. I paid about $200 for my 3rd Model.

 

If you want to letter the gun, Roy Jinks, the S&W historian will need to know the name of the gun, 38 Safety Hammerless, the SN, the Model (3rd), caliber (probably 38 S&W) the finish, blue or nickle, and the barrel length. Here is a link to the mail in form, the cost is $50 per gun. You will be told when the gun shipped, who it was shipped to, and what configuration the gun left the factory in.

 

 

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/other/LOA.pdf

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Thanks Driftwood.

 

Now we got it right.

 

I was looking at the wrong pixs but another review of those pixs you posted clarified.

 

Your correct.......3rd model.

 

Thanks for all the help.

 

p.s. - my friend had a suspicion that the $700 figure was alittle inflated.

 

 

..........Widder

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Blued...with a rare barrel length...might get up in the $700 range if in fine condition...in the box.

 

But by the description, yer friend's ain't in the neighborhood.

 

[Church Key, SASS # 33713]

I agree, get it lettered by S&W. They (Jinks) will send you a very nice document stating when it was shipped, to whom, and the guns features (plating, etc.). My grandfathers .32 was sent to a hardware store in Boston in 1899 with gutta percha grips. Apparently the store or my grandfather added mother of pearl grips. Anyhow, S&W does a nice job of researching their records.

[Griff]

Who works on these? I have a 4th model. Latch seems tight, but action not very good.

[Red Hooker]

Who works on these? I have a 4th model. Latch seems tight, but action not very good.

Dave Chicoine from, IIRC, Maryland, works on older S&Ws #3s, Schofields, et c., maybe these too.

 

http://oldwestgunsmith.com/