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NEW LAWS & SHOOTING OUT OF STATE


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As most of you know, several states have legislation, that has recently passed or is in the works, that changes that states gun laws. I will not preach to the choir but I will bring you up to date on Maryland’s recently passed gun laws.


Along with a long list of newly banned, so called assault rifles, there is a ban on DETACHABLE MAGAZINES that hold more than ten rounds of ammunition.

 

It DOES NOT include any firearms, used in any level, of Cowboy Action Shooting. It does not include our rifles, single action revolvers, shotguns or the 45 caliber 1911 used in Wild Bunch matches.

 

There are a lot of rumors and misinformation floating around that our cowboy guns cannot be brought into Maryland for a cowboy shoot. THIS IS INCORRECT.

 

Shooters from out of state can still, legally, bring their cowboy guns into Maryland to participate in a cowboy match.


Unfortunately, for the residents of Maryland, we cannot purchase any of the banned firearms after October 1, 2013. We can keep ones that we currently own but cannot transfer them to another Maryland resident after October 1, 2013.

 

Unfortunately, for the residents of Maryland, if you want to purchase a handgun after October 1, 2013, you must have a license to purchase permit. To obtain a permit you must have a specified number of hours of training (I’m not sure if it is 2, 4 or 8 hours as they kept changing it). I understand that if you currently have a regulated firearm, purchased in Maryland, you are exempt from the training. You must also submit fingerprints and a fee for the license.

 

Although this is a major step backwards, we are far behind the poor folks in California, New York and Connecticut.

 

As well all struggle with the lack of common sense found in these new laws, please get the facts before making a decision to not attend matches in the states with stricter gun laws. Trying to make a point by boycotting a match, in a restrictive state, only hurts the matches and your fellow shooters.

 

If in doubt, contact the match officials in the state where the match is held. If anyone knows the laws in a state, it will be the shooters in that state.

 

As the new anti-gun laws get passed, I am certain that there will be court challenges ahead. Be patient, and have a long memory come election time.


Roo

 


 

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Thank you Chuckaroo for your post. Our state, Colorado, won't be quite as restrictive, but also worry about folks not coming to our matches for the same reason. And we'd like you all to know that as with Maryland, our cowboys/cowgirls are always welcome to come and shoot with us. As far as I can tell, our Cowboy guns are not in danger.

 

We are not leaving Colorado. We shall remain and fight the good fight.

 

Stumble Leena +

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We are not leaving Colorado. We shall remain and fight the good fight.

 

Stumble Leena +

 

Thats for sure. I'm thinkin about starting a petition to divide the state into 3 parts. West, East and the I-25 central part where all the gun grabbers live.

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Roo,

 

Glad to hear our cowboy guns aren't impacted in MD, yet.

 

Right now you are now well AHEAD of CA in ridiculous, restrictive gun laws. But that may all change as we have several in work, and a two-thirds grabber majority in both houses and a grabber gov.

 

Our Federal courts are going to be busy for years, and we will have to keep NRA and state associations funded to fight in the court.

 

Harvey

Who spent last week in MD for work, and watched the bill pass and the gov sign. :-(

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I'll be coming down for the SASS Northeast Regional! Great shoot and a wonderful time of the year to visit that area.

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Dead Head,

 

We are looking forward to you and some of your New England pardners coming below the Mason Dixon line.

 

Roo

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Looking at the laws that have been passed lately in certain states, an my concern is not my sass guns and laws, it's a twofold concern. First I never travel with just my sass guns, and comming from a custom car world I have experienced first hand how sometimes cops "know the law". Cases like New York and Chicago where cops regulary ignore the safe transit act. Or "think" the law means..... This is not ment to insult cops, they are human and make mistakes.

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Indiana Jackson and I will be staying in Colorado, at least until the 2014 elections, to take the battle to the enemy. I will be doing public appearances both for pro-gun candidates and against antigun candidates.

 

While CAS shooters might not have a problem with the Colorado magazine capacity law, there are still serious implications. For our pards in Colorado, the so-called "universal background check" law that goes into effect 1 July 2013, DEFINITELY impacts all of us. The law itself isn't about "universal background checks" on private sales at all, but rather criminalizing non-sale transfers...if I hand you a gun, it is a transfer and under the terms of the new law I need to do a background check on you before I hand you the gun. It is that broad.

 

We were able to get a number of exceptions (9, I believe) into the law before the quisling Democrats passed it (no Republicans voted for this Michael Bloomberg-drafted travesty), but the huge legal problem is where in the legal process do those exceptions fall? For example, are the exceptions to be taken into account by police officers "on the ground" (so to speak) before they decide to arrest you, or are the exceptions only available if stated before a judge (as is the "grandfather" clause in the magazine capacity law)? There's a big difference (at least $10,000) between a cop saying "no harm no foul" and you spending the night in jail, posting bond, hiring a criminal attorney then pleading your "exceptions" in front of a judge. One big unanswered question is what is the threshold for "probable cause" for police to question you about a gun in your possession? An anonymous call to the police? Your exiting a match with a trunk full of guns? The phase of the moon? We're going to have to wait and see.

 

BTW, there is an "exception" for temporary transfers at a shooting competition, but the law specifically says the competition must be sanctioned either by the state or by a non-profit entity. SASS is a for-profit corporation, and this exception would apparently not apply. There is also an "exception" for temporary transfers that happen at a "shooting range," but "shooting range is very narrowly defined (private property apparently does not count), and some of the SASS matches in Colordo happen on ranges that clearly do not meet the qualification. There are other exceptions, but you need to live with either my Sweetie The Attorney or Professor David Kopel to understand the implications. And BTW BTW, Indiana and I have created a Gun Trust to hold all our guns and accessories to be in full compliance on this law.

 

The law is so vague that it doesn't clearly explain at what point you can be arrested for violating the statue, which is why the Colorado Sheriffs Association is going to be challenging it (and the mag ban) law in court.

 

This is serious, scary stuff, pards. These laws are specifically designed to trap us...remember, Colorado used Bloomberg boilerplate to create these laws. Violation of the physical transfer law is a Class 1 Misdemeanor, 6-18 months of jail time and fines of $500-$5000; plus, if that weren't enough, the Democrats added an additional penalty, the 2-year loss of all firearms rights. The Ruger Rimfire Worlds and the IDPA Rocky Mountain Regionals are being rescheduled out of Colorado, and the just-completed USPSA Area 2 Multigun Championships will no longer be held in Colorado.

 

My best advice, and I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on television, is that in Colorado after 1 July, DO NOT loan a pard a gun unless 1) you are present, 2) the loan takes place during a match and 3) the match is being held on a formal shooting range. If you are running new shooter clinics where you typically might have many guns for new shooters to try, I would STRONGLY suggest you get a legal opinion on your own before going forward with these clinics...a letter from an attorney at least shows your best efforts to comply with the law. And be EXTRA SCRUPULOUS about not inadvertently taking someone else's gun home or leaving one of your guns with a pard. Hey, it happens...after one such new shooter clinic we with ended up with a good friend's pistol (who lives in a nearby city), which happened to be in a gun bag just like mine...he said no problem, just bring it to next week's match. After 1 July, that would be a serious crime for both parties.

 

You're probably saying that your local sheriff and deputies won't enforce these unconstitutional laws, and he or probably won't. But Denver and surrounding communities have already said they will be enforcing these laws to the letter in their jurisdictions. And are you sure that there's not one very antigun law enforcement officer in your community just looking for a chance to stick it to the gun lobby (a.k.a, us)?

 

In short, be careful out there!

 

Wolf Bane

Occupied Colorado

SASS13557

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The initial post was created in order to dispel rumors about traveling to SASS matches in states where you are not totally familiar with the gun laws.

There was a growing misconception that many states had banned the use of the guns we use in CAS. This is not the case in most of those states. Maryland did not ban the guns we use in SASS matches as some people had thought.

It does not mean we are taking it easy on our legislators by any means. With the current economy and attendance being down in many areas, we do not need another reason for not shooting out of state.

If you travel with non SASS guns then you need to do additional research on the laws where you will be traveling.

Roo
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[quote name="Chuckaroo #13080 Regulator" post="2633141" timestamp="

 

If you have to take an AR15 to a SASS match, try getting a new blankie instead.

 

 

Roo

 

I have taken many guns with me if I travel for matches. A lot of us shoot other disciplines as well. If I can hit a uspsa, or a speed steel, or a practical rifle(AR-15) match on my way to an out of town sass match I will. It costs a lot to travel to a match. If I can hit something else on the way it makes it a better value. So I will travel with an AR-15 to a sass match if I can, And you can just keep the new "blankie" for yourself

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I have taken many guns with me if I travel for matches. A lot of us shoot other disciplines as well. If I can hit a uspsa, or a speed steel, or a practical rifle(AR-15) match on my way to an out of town sass match I will. It costs a lot to travel to a match. If I can hit something else on the way it makes it a better value. So I will travel with an AR-15 to a sass match if I can, And you can just keep the new "blankie" for yourself

 

Sorry to ruffle your feathers, it was not my intent. I have removed the comment.

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The laws in Colorado are designed to trap shooters. If you travel to Colorado to shoot any match that involves firearms — CAS or not — MAKE SURE you understand your risks!

 

And yes, I travel with an AR. And a concealed carry handgun. I carry a blankie for Alf the Wonder Beagle, too.

 

Wolf Bane

Occupied Colorado

SASS13557

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Sorry to ruffle your feathers, it was not my intent. I have removed the comment.

Sorry brother I may be getting my feathers ruffled a little to easily. And I do hope that your shoot is a success. I would never discourage someone from going to a shoot, that isn't my intent. There are some matches I would LOVE to shoot, that I probably never will because of state level politics that keep me away. And in many cases that's my loss. But it's also a choice I have to make to protect myself.

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True enough Keystone - living in New England a lot of fellow NH folks are worried about going to Mass to shoot, Ida & I just spent last Sunday shooting at Harvard's great matches.

 

The Mass laws are posted right on thier website for their Tri-State match - http://www.harvardghostriders.com/sawyerflats.html

There was also recent confusion on drivign into NY to shoot which Tom Payne cleared up here on the wire.

 

With all of the goofy changes being proposed it might not be a bad idea to list the latest info on a match's webseb site for the out of state travelers.

 

Thanx for starting this thread Roo, and most importantly the info for shooting your match - one of the best in the Northeast.

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Roo ya could just move to Alabama and shoot with us. No silly laws on the book.

Only thing is that when ya cross the border into Alabama if ya are a Yankee, we do check ya for guns, if ya got guns then you must be alright. No guns well then we have a bit of problem.

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The initial post was created in order to dispel rumors about traveling to SASS matches in states where you are not totally familiar with the gun laws.

There was a growing misconception that many states had banned the use of the guns we use in CAS. This is not the case in most of those states. Maryland did not ban the guns we use in SASS matches as some people had thought.

It does not mean we are taking it easy on our legislators by any means. With the current economy and attendance being down in many areas, we do not need another reason for not shooting out of state.

If you travel with non SASS guns then you need to do additional research on the laws where you will be traveling.

Roo

 

What about the Winchester M97 Trench Gun for Wild Bunch Matches, it has the "evil" barrel shroud and bayonet lug that you could use for "drive by bayonettings"?

What are the implications of having one of those travelling to a match?

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Wolf...so how would/could shipping a firearm to a gunsmith be interpreted in the "physical transfer law"? Also many times gunsmiths will take firearms with them after matches. Would it be different in that we are FFL holders? Not clear how Colorado views this.

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It seems that a lot of States in the USA now have more RESTRICTIVE gun laws than Canada !!!!

If you are comming to Canada to shoot, you can get a "Long-term ATT and a Firearms licience good for 5 years at a time ,,, With-out Fingerprinting and it even alllows you to buy guns ....

So bring your Cowboy Guns to Canada and Shoot .....

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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El Mulo Vaquero, Indiana Jackson actually suggested language on that very subject that a friendly Republican rep was able to ram into the bill when no one was paying attention, so there is a specific exception for "gunsmiths," specifically who don't have an FFL. Licensed dealers are treated differently.

 

Wolf Bane

Occupied Colorado

SASS13557

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Roo ya could just move to Alabama and shoot with us. No silly laws on the book.

Only thing is that when ya cross the border into Alabama if ya are a Yankee, we do check ya for guns, if ya got guns then you must be alright. No guns well then we have a bit of problem.

 

Heck, I went ito a Bama juke joint once. they asked me at the door if I had a gun. I told them no. They issued me one :)

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There are a lot of unanswered "What If's" and it may take a PA lawyer to figure it all out.

 

The NRA has a link to all of the gun laws, by state. But, with so many new laws being initiated and passed, it is a challenge to keep up.

 

Your best bet, for the interim, is to contact folks in the states you will be traveling.

 

The states that have the most restrictive laws will be in the news. The leaders in these states will be grabbing air time to get their anti-gun messages out and make their name a household word.

 

As we all know, these new laws will not make us more safe, so I will not go there. But when you see a governor, like Maryland's Martin O,Malley (a presidential wanna be), grabbing time on the news, you can bet that it is a state you need to verify what the gun laws are before going there with any assault type firearms or high capacity mags.
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This has nothing to do with your match, Roo. On my way back from CO while moving to SD with a trailer licensed in CO the troopers in WY decided that I needed to be pulled over for a tail light. It was the middle of the day.

 

"No officer I can't consent to a search." Mainly because the trailer was packed to the gills with 1/2 an office and warehouse and I didn't want them unloading my sh** on the roadside.

"Well, what's in it that you're hiding?"

"It's my stuff. Not hiding anything, but you're not gonna look. May I see the tail light?"

"We're going to have to bring a drug dog."

"May I see the tail light? Do I even need a tail light in the day time in WY?"

So 1 hour later the dog gets there and walks around my rig. Inside it I had 8 guns and about 1000 rounds of 45 LC. Plus, (2) loaded carry guns in the truck. I did not exit the vehicle.

Do you think it might have been because I had a trailer with CO plates and CO had just passed the new marijuana laws? DUHHHHHHH.....

 

This whole mess is just a license for LEO's to go fish and if you look hard enough there is some violation in there somewhere that COULD turn us all into criminals.

 

There was nothing wrong with my tail light.

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This has nothing to do with your match, Roo. On my way back from CO while moving to SD with a trailer licensed in CO the troopers in WY decided that I needed to be pulled over for a tail light. It was the middle of the day.

 

"No officer I can't consent to a search." Mainly because the trailer was packed to the gills with 1/2 an office and warehouse and I didn't want them unloading my sh** on the roadside.

"Well, what's in it that you're hiding?"

"It's my stuff. Not hiding anything, but you're not gonna look. May I see the tail light?"

"We're going to have to bring a drug dog."

"May I see the tail light? Do I even need a tail light in the day time in WY?"

So 1 hour later the dog gets there and walks around my rig. Inside it I had 8 guns and about 1000 rounds of 45 LC. Plus, (2) loaded carry guns in the truck. I did not exit the vehicle.

Do you think it might have been because I had a trailer with CO plates and CO had just passed the new marijuana laws? DUHHHHHHH.....

 

This whole mess is just a license for LEO's to go fish and if you look hard enough there is some violation in there somewhere that COULD turn us all into criminals.

 

There was nothing wrong with my tail light.

It may not be the state your traveling to, but the states you have to go through to get there. So do a good research. Out of state licenses are a sure giveaway.

These are trying times, and yes, some SASS matches may be effected by out of state visitors.

Only been stopped once, luckily I had the proper paperwork to bring a fully auto into the states, and states I was traveling to. Research pays off, also a call to the State Police in the states will pay off and give good results. I've done this many times. Ther average Joe at a match, may not be up to date on these changes, and what they mean, or apply to. Best to get it from those that will be enforcing them. MT

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This has nothing to do with your match, Roo. On my way back from CO while moving to SD with a trailer licensed in CO the troopers in WY decided that I needed to be pulled over for a tail light. It was the middle of the day.

 

"No officer I can't consent to a search." Mainly because the trailer was packed to the gills with 1/2 an office and warehouse and I didn't want them unloading my sh** on the roadside.

"Well, what's in it that you're hiding?"

"It's my stuff. Not hiding anything, but you're not gonna look. May I see the tail light?"

"We're going to have to bring a drug dog."

"May I see the tail light? Do I even need a tail light in the day time in WY?"

So 1 hour later the dog gets there and walks around my rig. Inside it I had 8 guns and about 1000 rounds of 45 LC. Plus, (2) loaded carry guns in the truck. I did not exit the vehicle.

Do you think it might have been because I had a trailer with CO plates and CO had just passed the new marijuana laws? DUHHHHHHH.....

 

This whole mess is just a license for LEO's to go fish and if you look hard enough there is some violation in there somewhere that COULD turn us all into criminals.

 

There was nothing wrong with my tail light.

 

Happened to me in Tennessee at the Johnny Cash rest stop on I-40 on the way to Comin' at Cha 2011.

 

In this day and age, when traveling out of state, it's best to bring copies of purchase receipts for the guns you're traveling with, keep the cabin of your car clean, and don't give LEO a reason to search your car.....

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keep the cabin of your car clean, and don't give LEO a reason to search your car.....

You obviously aren't considering how many clothes that my wife packs for Cowtown & Winter Range!!!

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Went to a shoot in Connecticut on Saturday. Bought my fuel and bottled water in RI before I crossed the border into CT.

 

I'll attend matches in the communist states, but I won't spend a dime there.

 

I'll hunt in Colorado because I don't want to punish the guides. But I won't spend a dime otherwise in that state.

 

Just my own personal way of staging a protest,,,,, ;)

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This has nothing to do with your match, Roo. On my way back from CO while moving to SD with a trailer licensed in CO the troopers in WY decided that I needed to be pulled over for a tail light. It was the middle of the day.

 

"No officer I can't consent to a search." Mainly because the trailer was packed to the gills with 1/2 an office and warehouse and I didn't want them unloading my sh** on the roadside.

"Well, what's in it that you're hiding?"

"It's my stuff. Not hiding anything, but you're not gonna look. May I see the tail light?"

"We're going to have to bring a drug dog."

"May I see the tail light? Do I even need a tail light in the day time in WY?"

So 1 hour later the dog gets there and walks around my rig. Inside it I had 8 guns and about 1000 rounds of 45 LC. Plus, (2) loaded carry guns in the truck. I did not exit the vehicle.

Do you think it might have been because I had a trailer with CO plates and CO had just passed the new marijuana laws? DUHHHHHHH.....

 

This whole mess is just a license for LEO's to go fish and if you look hard enough there is some violation in there somewhere that COULD turn us all into criminals.

 

There was nothing wrong with my tail light.

Last year I was traveling from our place in AZ to our place in SD, it was around midnight and I was going thru Albuquerque, a trooper stopped me cause the lights on my trailer were out and it's still registered in MN where we have permanent trailer license with a sticker on the tongue and no plate. The trooper was very nice and as we talked casually asked if I was carrying. Without thinking I said yes, my heart stopped after I realized I was in NM now and not AZ . I have a MN carry permit and knew it was good for AZ, MN, SD and others but had no clue about NM. He seemed unconcerned except asking me to keep my hands on the wheel. I figured I was going to jail and losing all my guns. He came back after a license check and said follow him to the next exit and fix my lights and then asked what I was carrying, I told him a Colt Defender and he said "cool". Fixed my lights and went on my way. I check the states I travel through now and may have to avoid CO in my semi annual trek between SD and AZ.

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This has nothing to do with your match, Roo. On my way back from CO while moving to SD with a trailer licensed in CO the troopers in WY decided that I needed to be pulled over for a tail light. It was the middle of the day.

 

"No officer I can't consent to a search." Mainly because the trailer was packed to the gills with 1/2 an office and warehouse and I didn't want them unloading my sh** on the roadside.

"Well, what's in it that you're hiding?"

"It's my stuff. Not hiding anything, but you're not gonna look. May I see the tail light?"

"We're going to have to bring a drug dog."

"May I see the tail light? Do I even need a tail light in the day time in WY?"

So 1 hour later the dog gets there and walks around my rig. Inside it I had 8 guns and about 1000 rounds of 45 LC. Plus, (2) loaded carry guns in the truck. I did not exit the vehicle.

Do you think it might have been because I had a trailer with CO plates and CO had just passed the new marijuana laws? DUHHHHHHH.....

 

This whole mess is just a license for LEO's to go fish and if you look hard enough there is some violation in there somewhere that COULD turn us all into criminals.

 

There was nothing wrong with my tail light.

 

 

There was something wrong with your tail light, it was adjacent to a CO plate.

 

I'll take a guess and assume you were near Wheatland WY.

 

I might shoot in CO, I'm not buying a thing when I'm there. Unless my wife makes me buy her lunch!

 

When we use to travel to EOT in California, my anxiety level was high due to their laws. Now we have concern when traveling through CO,

who would have ever thought they would have passed such legislation. CO residents need to learn to vote early and often, or it appears the libs have already learned. Pegleg has to be looking down on us all and shaking his head.

 

LL'

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BK, one hour detention waiting for the dope dog is an illegal and unreasonable detention. Also inconsiderate. We had a state district judge tell us one time that anything over 20 minutes is too long and she would toss anything found after 21 minutes. Seems about right enuff to me.

 

Problem is too many of these young cops these days do not think like we do. They are big game hunters and all they care about is hittin' a good lick and taking trophy pics. They have zero respect for the constitution just like gun-grabbin' politicians. If they considet it at all it is as an impediment to their game.

 

You did good son, sorry about the hour out of yer life ya cain't get back.

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Happened to me in Tennessee at the Johnny Cash rest stop on I-40 on the way to Comin' at Cha 2011.

 

In this day and age, when traveling out of state, it's best to bring copies of purchase receipts for the guns you're traveling with, keep the cabin of your car clean, and don't give LEO a reason to search your car.....

I see your point, but how many have the original or a copy of gun they bought 13 years ago?

 

Additionally you have not seen how much stuff my wife takes to a shoot. She can dang near fill the inside of a 4 door truck with dresses and hats, then there is the 42 containers of her stuff in bed of the truck. Don't forget the shoes and boots to go with each outfit.

That doesn't count the guns and my stuff.

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I’ve hunted in Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana.

Plus Arkansas and Louisiana (I’m a Texan don’t ya know)

MY NEW law dictates that I know longer hunt in Colorado or drive through it for any reason, used to vacation there, among other mountain states.

It also leaves out any of the other anti-2nd Amendment states.

If I can’t drive around them my NEW law prevents me from going there.

Went to Indiana last year for a match, if I go again I’ll drive around Illinois.

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