A Question from Tex, SASS# 4 on Mental Health and Psychiatric Meds

[Colonel Dan, SASS #24025]

In his April editorial, Tex addressed the question of mental health and psychiatric medication as part of the gun control issue. To quote Tex:

 

"A recent commentator made the point … in the 1960s we had kids in school, we had kids (and even teachers) bringing firearms to school, and we even had these same folks going hunting on their way home, and it was, indeed, rare for there ever being a problem with firearms. This was also a time before psychiatric medication became mainstream in America. No one knows for sure how many of this latest batch of malcontent perpetrators of schoolhouse and theater shootings were taking some kind of psychiatric medication. It’s not common knowledge, it’s not generally available to the press, and who knows if even the “authorities” have access to this information? I’d like to see the “gun control” discussions opened up to include this topic as well.

I believe the only way information on individuals is collected today is through court records. But, in the case of “controlled substances” is that enough? Alcoholics, recreational drug users, and folks on psychiatric medication all have impaired judgment, and are “incidents” waiting to happen.

 

If any SASS members are competent to address this subject, The Cowboy Chronicle would love to hear from you."

 

If any member of SASS is qualified to address this and give us your professional thoughts on what can and might be done, please let us hear from you.

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

Darn good toppic for discussion.

[Madd Mike #8595]

I think that video war games should be a part of that discussion as well, reality (what is real) and what is not, seems to be getting cloudy for many

[Guest Col. Nathan C. Riddles]

I think that video war games should be a part of that discussion as well, reality (what is real) and what is not, seems to be getting cloudy for many

 

 

+1 Let's add cop video games with all kinds of blood & gore. When I was a kid we brought our hunting guns to school, we had a shooting team & competed against other school, and every boy had a knife in his pocket. These were tools and not weapons to be used against others. We wouldn't have dreamed of pulling a knife on someone let alone a rifle or shotgun.

 

As for ADHD, when we didn't behave in school or pay attention to the teacher we got the seat of our pants dusted with an oak or maple or hickory paddle. Every teacher had one & used it, although sparingly. When one kid got the paddle the rest paid attention & straightened up. In the fifties and sixties there was no such thing as ADHD. I believe that 90% of the cases of ADHD are non existent. Parents were too lazy to discipline their kids and wouldn't the schools do it. So the pharmaceutical developed mood altering drugs for kids & the docs came up with ADHD as an excuse to prescribe those drugs. It's much easier to drug an unruly child to control him than it is to take him out in the hall & bust his butt. There's no telling what long term effects drugs like Ritalin can have on an individual.

[Col. Nathan C. Riddles, SASS # 7462]

Ain't no guest!! Dunno how I got logged out.

[Madd Mike #8595]

+1 Let's add cop video games with all kinds of blood & gore. When I was a kid we brought our hunting guns to school, we had a shooting team & competed against other school, and every boy had a knife in his pocket. These were tools and not weapons to be used against others. We wouldn't have dreamed of pulling a knife on someone let alone a rifle or shotgun.

 

As for ADHD, when we didn't behave in school or pay attention to the teacher we got the seat of our pants dusted with an oak or maple or hickory paddle. Every teacher had one & used it, although sparingly. When one kid got the paddle the rest paid attention & straightened up. In the fifties and sixties there was no such thing as ADHD. I believe that 90% of the cases of ADHD are non existent. Parents were too lazy to discipline their kids and wouldn't the schools do it. So the pharmaceutical developed mood altering drugs for kids & the docs came up with ADHD as an excuse to prescribe those drugs. It's much easier to drug an unruly child to control him than it is to take him out in the hall & bust his butt. There's no telling what long term effects drugs like Ritalin can have on an individual.

You stated it

well; it is the minimizing of our morals / feelings, in the USA that we are now

seeing the long lasting effects of. It only took 0ne hack with the hickory

paddle, in front of the whole class in the 6^th grade for me, to

adjust my attitude, add a dash of good parenting, a Sunday school teacher grandmother,

and a great step grandfather that kept kids in line without pills.

 

Now we have

pills, parents as best friends, texting, easy access to bad video games, and

sexual connotations everywhere you turn, in our advertising and or movies etc.

 

Let us all Talk

about all of those things, and leave our second amendment rights alone, like

Tex said, we already have many laws in place with regards to bad people having firearms,

let us use them. I had a shotgun in my pickup truck gun rack, in the high

school parking lot, for legal hunting on the way home, as did many. Morals stop

bad behavior, laws – not so much.

 

 

 

[J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE]

I think this topic is a red herring, laid out for us in the hope that 2nd Amendment supporters are too focused to see that our privacy rights and other basic freedoms are being attacked (long legal discussion, but we have some under Federal law and some states offer even more)

 

If laws were passed imprisoning people for mental illness before they committed crimes we would all scream about the injustice. Well in years past people were effectively imprisoned for mental illness. We just called the prisons institutions. I am sure that this is not the intent of 2nd Amendment supporters.

 

But at a more basic level if we take away rights without due process because people have been deemed mentally ill, then we have become just as wrong as the anti gunners. Also Federal law that requires "documentation" of mental illness by the states and a report to the Federal Government is unenforceable. Making the states do something on behalf of the Federal Government is a tricky area. The Feds can cut off funding, but they cannot legally utilize the states as an enforcement arm of the Federal Government.

 

Here is an interesting read http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/PA714.pdf

 

If mental illness is grounds to take away guns, then gun ownership will become a factor in defining "mental illness" and they will come for our guns through the back door instead of the front.

 

I will not give up my guns. I will resist any attempt to take away my legal rights. If laws are passed that infringe upon my rights I will not obey them. If this country's government makes me a criminal for my position, then as a criminal I won't be subject to registration anyway as criminals do not have to give testimony against themselves.

[Billy Bristol]

Well when I was a kid I remember gettin the belt a few times. Now-a-days you can't do that to your kids because you get arrested for abuse.

That's half the problem with things today. Someone does get abused and the laws go crazy to the point you can't even holler at your kids cause someone will holler mental abuse.

All these do gooders go overboard with the laws and end up making things worse. Now you have more kids with no respect and the thinking that they can do whatever they want. Until they do something horrendous then we make new laws that do nothing for the real problem.

[Knarley Bob]

Well, here we go....

I am no expert, so maybe you don't want my input. If so, the powers that be, may delete this post, no hard feelings.....kewl .

I have been an EMT since circa 1975, a medical asst., and a nurses aide since 1970 and a medical asst., I have worked in nursing homes, hospitals, clinics,& E.R.s, drove ambulance, and fire trucks,( yes, I am a certified fire fighter)

What we are dealing with is a "Phobia". Now according to the "American Heritage DICTIONARY" is and I quote......

A PERSISTENT,ILLOGICAL FEAR OF A SPECIFIC THING OR SITUATION. 2 PERSISTENT,ABNORMAL,OR INTENSE FEAR.....................Of guns.( Gun-o-phobia)

Just as those who are afraid of spiders, clowns, or birds.

I'm sure treatment is available, but they have to admit to them selves that it is the problem.

The media, and government has "brain washed these people" into the fear if an inanomet objet as being "evil" such as the "THE RING OF SORON" in the tale of the hobbit.

We have a long row to hoe, but I suspect that if push come to shove.......We be the better armed, and I'm afraid that it will come to that. So be it.

There is NOTHING wrong with defending one's country

Knarley Bob

[Madd Mike #8595]

I agree that
we should not take rights away from citizens, by merely labeling them (what –
ever), however, I believe that the mental issue and mental drug issue is a very
important part of the problem that needs to be address, and debated.

 

After all,
someone could label a shooting competitor as (over the top, obsessed with
firearms etc) and someday put on a no have guns list, as a slippery slope deal.

 

[T. H. O' Sullivan]

A large segment of the general population at large takes anti depressants for sleep disorders. These folks can instantly be disqualified for gun ownership based on the type of drug they are taking, even though they are totally normal in every aspect of their lives.

[Madd Mike #8595]

A large segment of the general population at large takes anti depressants for sleep disorders. These folks can instantly be disqualified for gun ownership based on the type of drug they are taking, even though they are totally normal in every aspect of their lives.

I do not think that legal gun owners want folks deprived of their gun rights over a person - commitee - etc deciding X

However: once crimes are commited then that is a much different story, for the most part, just enforce what laws we already have

[J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE]

Madd Mike, I agree, but it is the unintended consequences that we must consider.

 

Registering mentally ill people occurred in 1930's Germany. Hitler knew during peacetime that his plans would not be possible, but that a war would allow him to "Solve" many of Germany's problems.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_T4

 

I know that I sound like an extremist when I say that Obama is our country and this generation's biggest threat. I believe he is capable of anything we allow. Like registration of gun owners, registration of any distinct segment of society is targeting that segment.

[Col. Nathan C. Riddles, SASS # 7462]

Well when I was a kid I remember gettin the belt a few times. Now-a-days you can't do that to your kids because you get arrested for abuse.

That's half the problem with things today. Someone does get abused and the laws go crazy to the point you can't even holler at your kids cause someone will holler mental abuse.

Billy, I don't know about CT, but here in Texas that is a fallicy that kids use to buffalo their parents. I have a friend that just retired from CPS and he told me that they could care less about parents spanking their kids. He said infact it would make their jobs easier if more parents would. What they're concerned with is genuine abuse such as burns, black eyes, broken limbs, hair pulled out, etc.

 

As a law dawg I've advised many parents to apply the board of education to the seat of learning, and I told em right in front of the kids. I had a 15 year old kid in a fight that I broke up pull back his fist to punch me & when I pulled out my nightstick said "You can't hit me with that. I'm a minor." to which I replied, Go ahead & swing on me & you'll see just how damned hard I can hit you. He dropped his fists.

 

Check with your local Child Protective Service & local cop shop. You may find it's the same in CT as in Texas.

 

Parents don't let your kids buffalo you. If they threaten to call the cops on you, pick up the phone & call 911 for them. If you can, turn the tables on them & have the cops hall them off to the local grey bar kiddie hotel for a few days. Sometimes a taste of jail is enough to straighten them out. And sometimes it isn't, but it sure can't hurt to try.