Hairtrigger Hayes Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Alright SASS Pards, here's the question. I've been having a blast trying to "game" it up since I joined the sport about a year and a half ago. I've got good equipment and I think the next step might be a short stroke kit for my Blackhawks...but they're expensive. Are they worth it? How much effect will they have on stage time? Who's the best for this type of work? What about the Shotgun Boogie drop in kit? I appreciate any input y'all can toss my way. In the words of Ricky Bobby, "I wanna go FAST!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Brady, SASS #63699 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I have Boogie kits on order and can report back to you when they arrive and are installed if you want. I think I will have them within two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Like everything, your mileage may vary. Try and find someone who has what you are considering who will let you try them out. Consistent and efficient transitions will shave more time off your stage times than will short strokes in my opinion. But if you have that part of your game perfected, then maybe.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 How many matchs have you shot with OEM Rugers? Have you fired s'stroked Rugers yet? How well do you finish in your category now? LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Short stroking pistols can make maybe up to 25% difference in the pistol times FOR A DUELIST. For two-handed shooters, folks usually report much less improvement. If you are shooting a total-stage time of about 30 seconds (10,10 and 4), and transitions are taking you 2 seconds per gun, 4 transitions in the stage, same time for rifle run, pistols run and shotgun run, then the pistol run would be about 22/3 or maybe 7 seconds. If you, Mr Duelist, can trim 25% of 7 seconds, you save almost 2 seconds. Shaving that much time off transitions could be done, but it would be tough. Shaving maybe 1 second off could be possible for Mr Two-Hander, if he runs 25 second stages, he doesn't get anywhere near as much improvement - he gets down to 24 second stages. He has a better chance of cutting that much off with better transitions and faster time onto each target. So, maybe enough time saved to make a $300 investment have some payback for the duelist/gunfighter shooter. Much less value to a 2-hander. As a duelist with not the strongest hands, yeah, I like my short stroked Vaqueros. I would pay again for a $300 cut and weld job, but probably not $1000 or so for the Boogie kits for both guns. That's just me. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Hopefully, you have read the article I wrote for the chronicle about the Boogie kits. They are works of art and to me are worth the slight extra cost over a "cut and weld" job. I only shoot duelist and have four of them and have installed two others. After installing a kit I sit in front of the TV and watch a Gunsmoke rerun and cycle the gun. After about ten minutes they are as smooth as silk. As noted by others, if you shoot duelist they are an aide in confortable and quick shooting. Short stroke revolvers are a little less important for two handed shooters. (Although for many two-handers with big hands not having the hammer spur buried in the web of their hands is a big help.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Lizard Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Alright SASS Pards, here's the question. I've been having a blast trying to "game" it up since I joined the sport about a year and a half ago. I've got good equipment and I think the next step might be a short stroke kit for my Blackhawks...but they're expensive. Are they worth it? How much effect will they have on stage time? Who's the best for this type of work? What about the Shotgun Boogie drop in kit? I appreciate any input y'all can toss my way. In the words of Ricky Bobby, "I wanna go FAST!!!" Jim Bowie put mine in last week...Had them put into a pair of Ruger new old model 44-40s...Just happened to have pair of new one hanging around...I used on one stage only and they worked very nice...Need to refine the grips for a hold and polish the cylinders a little but very satisfied...Does take some getting use to...Putting these kits into new model Ruger are easier than put them into a old model Ruger... Texas Lizard Texas Lizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo slim Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Just start keeping your shotgun on your shoulder...theres your 1 sec per stage & save $700-$1000 bucks Besides when I have mine done I'm not going to tell you only beat you 1 sec per stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Just ordered some for the wife. But not for speed. She has a bad habit of sometimes getting her grip to high. Then with her SBH Hammers being lower. She ends up cocking the gun into her hand and not bringing it to full cock and having to go around again. She could go back to the higher hammers and that would fix it. BUT. She likes her lower wider hammers. SO. The SGB Shortstrokes still gives her the lower wider hammers. And with the shortstoke. should fix the problem. That has cost her at EOT and many other big matches. As for cost. Having her shooting with me and enjoy it is worth whatever it costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahoma Dee Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Talk with Colorado Jackson! Colt Faro installed a set of Shotgun Boogie's short strokes in his Rugers and HE LOVEs EM!!! He is shooting faster times, more confidence and fewer misses.......well, maybe faster anyways! . Really, he is extremely pleased with them. Sometimes a change just clicks in with you and other times they clunk! OkD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Alot of good answers above. Personally for me, in raw speed...I can't tell any gain. This is just pure cocking and shooting speed runs. BUT, because of the manner in which we have to manipulate our pistols on various targets, I think it does help 'alittle' because the efforts of cocking the shorter distance 'might' enhance your efforts in keeping your sight alignment steadier for those follow up shots. In other words, you 'might' be less prone in pulling your sights off target and your follow up shots will be less time. You may give credit to the short stroke but it really might have more to do with what the short stroke enhances within your shooting abilities itself. Now, IN MY OPINION, if you are a Duelist or Gunfighter and decide go get your Rugers short stroked, you might want to consider the Super Blackhawk/Montado style hammer which has the wide thumb spur. And, IN MY OPINION, if you are a two handed style shooter and decide to get your Rugers short stroked, you might want to consider the standard width style hammer. I have 3 sets of SS Rugers, all of them set up by Lassiter. Beautiful workmanship and dependable. Two sets of those have Octagonal barrels set up by Slick McClade with those WIDE solid brass front sights. Personally, I think the addition of those WIDE solid brass front sights has helped me more than the short-stroke setups. And the combination is priceless to me. ARE THEY WORTH IT? For me...YES! EDIT: Diablo Slims comment about the shotgun is on the money. That might be your greatest gain in time savings as far as each firearm usage is concerned. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Slick McClade had the Shotgun Boogie kits at Winter Range and I had my daughters pair of Rugers along so I had them done. These guns have never liked my BP loads, shooting high left, so I shoot Open Tops., but on this trip I'm on I have shot a couple of practice boxes of smokeless through them and I can see her not getting them back and me changing from FCD to Duellist! (Dang emoticons don't work on my IPad so LOL) One feature that has not been mentioned is the half cock. How many times, no matter what category you shoot, has your finger slipped off the hammer and you have to go all the way around to get that round off? No longer an issue with the Shotgun Boogie kits and this was the deciding factor for me as my daughter does that often enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrider, SASS #72622 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Do y'all know if they make these for bisleys yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I have been running Boogie's kits for about three months now, but have been using Lassiter's and Dave Smith's short strokes for years. If you are running within in 20% of the top person in your catagory, the Short Stroke will help you to a degree. At the very top end, you might save a full second on a ten shot string - maybe. BUT it does do some other things that might also help you like being able to recover from the hammer falling to half-cock without having to go all the way around the cylinder to fire the skipped round. It does make it a bit easier to manipulate the pistol even if you are not shooting any faster. So, for those two things alone, a $300.00+ cut and weld short stroke job is well worth the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I agree with many of the others........they may be worth it and they may help certain shooters more than others.....but they won't make you "fast". Anyone that has ever seen me shoot knows I can't shoot a pistol worth doodley squat......but I still get decent stage times overall. It the "inbetweens" that get yer' times down there......the difference in gun speed helps BUT again it's not the "key". The differences in my best stages times on single targets and multi engagement targets where you can really he guns rolling isn't as much as you would think.......maybe 1 - 2 seconds tops. So if your gun speed is "fast" you shoot a 15 instead of a 17 or a 22 instead of a 24 etc........so it helps but it's not the Holy Grail you may think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Gun Tuco Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I have Jimmy Spurs pistols with action jobs, short strokes etc. and they are great to shoot. Whether or not the short stroke actually changed my times I don't know, but all of the things combined did for sure. At speed pistol I used to be able run about a 4.5 clean now its about a 3.5 clean and if its a big match a second a stage will add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Gun Tuco Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Cowboy Junky is right though as transitions are where you will shave time off. And they are free other than the hours of dry firing I've spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 My NRVs had a hammer throw that was longer than the Colts/Clones that I had been shooting, so I had them short-stroked to bring them more in line with what I was used to shooting. Without that mod I would have gone back to my Colts/clones. If I were starting from scratch, and money was a issue, (which it always is around here) I would have to really consider things carfully before I purchased a pair of NRVs and then put another $1000 into them just to get the hammer throw on a par with a good pair of Clones. That being said.... I do believe that the Rugers are the best handguns to accomodate all the abuse that this game puts on equipment. So... for me, if I am going to shoot a pair of NRVs, it would be necessary for me to Short-Stroke them.. if shooting a pair of Colts/Clones, it is not. Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone SASS #36388 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 no matter how fast and smooth or lite Your bicycle is SOMEONE has to do the peddling. If your not willing to spend the time to practice, don't spend the money in hopes of speed. T-Bone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Do y'all know if they make these for bisleys yet?Thinking of trying a pair of NRVBs with SB kits from Slick, but told mod/kit is still in works for Bis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Faro, SASS #54579 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 The advantages for a one handed shooter are obvious. As for a 2 handed shooter not as obvious but there none the less. We've actually put it on the clock and Dylan's times are straight up faster with pistols with the SB kits in them. That being said, TBone is 100% correct about practice! There is no substitute for that. Now there are also other advantages for a 2 handed shooter using the SB kits. We've found that less movement means smoother pistol runs. There is less muzzle flip while cocking the gun etc. Double taps are faster without a doubt and you are more accurate as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COLORADO JACKSON Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 The advantages for a one handed shooter are obvious. As for a 2 handed shooter not as obvious but there none the less. We've actually put it on the clock and Dylan's times are straight up faster with pistols with the SB kits in them. That being said, TBone is 100% correct about practice! There is no substitute for that. Now there are also other advantages for a 2 handed shooter using the SB kits. We've found that less movement means smoother pistol runs. There is less muzzle flip while cocking the gun etc. Double taps are faster without a doubt and you are more accurate as well. What he said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Tried them at Winter Range and instantly fell in love. Problem is, I've got two pairs of SASS Vaqueros, main match and back ups. Anybody got a couple grand they can give me??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 To add to my post. If they had SB SS kit for my Bisleys. They would be in there. Mine are stock right now. but may have Slick go ahead and SS them after Texas State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb.1 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 IIRC Blackhawks are only allowed in the age based cat's plus B-Western. If you shoot two handed I suspect you won't care for a short stroke - it'll goof you up. If you shoot duelest (in the age based cat's b/c of your Blackhawks plus BW) then you are competing w/ the two handed shooters. Since you are "gaming up" your guns, I assume that means you are trying to get toward the top shooters times. Under current rules, short storking a Blackhawk would not seem like a great way to shave time getting to the leaders board with your allowed cat's to shoot in. It's lunch time and I'm hungry. Maybe someone has mentioned this already and I missed it. Correct me if what I've said is bogus. I have a hamburger calling my name. C' ya. Jimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 IIRC Blackhawks are only allowed in the age based cat's plus B-Western. If you shoot two handed I suspect you won't care for a short stroke - it'll goof you up. If you shoot duelest (in the age based cat's b/c of your Blackhawks plus BW) then you are competing w/ the two handed shooters. Since you are "gaming up" your guns, I assume that means you are trying to get toward the top shooters times. Under current rules, short storking a Blackhawk would not seem like a great way to shave time getting to the leaders board with your allowed cat's to shoot in. It's lunch time and I'm hungry. Maybe someone has mentioned this already and I missed it. Correct me if what I've said is bogus. I have a hamburger calling my name. C' ya. Jimmy Most the people i know that have SS pistols are two handed shotoers. YES. It helps them also. As many have pointed out above. it's NOT just for one handed shooters. And as far as Blackhawks. Why would you not want to SS them just like any other? Eat that burger then get back to us on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Tried them at Winter Range and instantly fell in love. Problem is, I've got two pairs of SASS Vaqueros, main match and back ups. Anybody got a couple grand they can give me??? Ck is in da'mail............Is it to early for April fools? FWIW: Keep ALL of your OEM parts. Just in case you ever have to return those Rugers, to Ruger LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Jackson Turner Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 They are not a substitute for practice, and they won't make up for sloppy technique. However! If you run towards the middle or rear of the pack - they will help a bit, but they'll make the pistolas more fun to shoot. If you run towards the front of the pack, you are looking for any edge, because matches can be decided by a few seconds, tenths of a second, or even a few hundredths of a second. It the other guy or gal is as good as you - well, I honestly don't believe that you can beat them, without them, if all other things are equal. Cheers, FJT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone SASS #36388 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I have played with SB kits and they are wonderful, smooth and crisp. Best thing for pistols in a long time. BUT----an extra large kudos should go to Mr. Wes Fargo/Flowers. The invertor of the original short stroke... In my opinion Wes should be cashing royalty checks by now....Just because he's my hero and a great guy...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 $500 per gun for short stoke revolver kits? These things must be gummed out of steel billets by toothless Eskimo women! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrider, SASS #72622 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Thinking of trying a pair of NRVBs with SB kits from Slick, but told mod/kit is still in works for Bis. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairtrigger Hayes Posted March 27, 2013 Author Share Posted March 27, 2013 Thanks for all the input. As usual you have met and, in Buffalo Dick's case, exceeded my expectations. Looks like the answer for me is to practice, practice, practice....and short stroke my Blackhawks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Better call and get in line for some. Right now looks like a two the three week wait until somemore come over. I am on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Thanks for the info.But, by the time one can get their hands on a pair of NRVBs, the kit may be proven ready. bb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 For those folks wanting to have Slick short stroke their revolvers you might want to make a phone call. I got to Winter Range with the intention of having him work on mine but he said he didn't do that particular mod anymore. He pointed me towards Colt Faro who was selling and installing the kits. That may have changed so give him a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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