WAY TO STOP DHS AMMO PURCHASE

[Col. Nathan C. Riddles, SASS # 7462]

The way to stop DHS ammo purchase is for congress to cut off or reduce funding for ammo purchasing.

 

The 1.6 billion rounds being purchased by DHS is not all at one time, but over the next five years. We're going to have to put up with this ammo shortage over the next 5 years. I haven't seen any but shotgun shells and a very few rifle calibers on the shelves of my local Walmart for several weeks. If it was hunting season the shelves would be empty.

 

Another way is for the ammo manufacturers to stop thinking of their bank accounts and start thinking of their freedom and drastically reduce sales to the federal government. DHS should be limited to the amount of ammo they can purchase annually. A lot of what they shoot is wasted. Their thinking is "We didn't use that much ammo this year. So we'll be cut next year. So we better hide those 50,000 cases of 40 S&W, & 11,000 cases of 9mm or shoot em up beore the GAO inspector comes around." Next thing you know folks are loading up their car trunks with ammo the day before the inspector is due. Or they're taking it to the range and just spraying & praying for days. If you've served in the military you know what I'm talking about. Another way LE agencies waste ammo is the rotation system. Officers are told to shoot up any ammo over a year (or 2) old and have their agency issue fresh ammo. It's an old wives tale that old ammo could be faulty. I personally have shot ammo that was 50-75 years old and it functioned perfectly. I also load all my cc guns with Winchester Black Talon ammo which was pulled off the market in '94.

 

Start calling and writing your senators or congressman and urge them to cut DHS ammo purchase funding by 75%.

 

Stop stockpiling ammo!! We need to post that on every gun forum on the net. I'll wager if people would do that you'd be able to buy all the ammo or components you want within 6 months at normal prices. Then you coul start stocking up a little at a time, every week or month. Don't go out and run your so called "old" ammo through a gun just so you have an excuse to go out and buy "fresh" ammo. There's really no such thing. Unlike bananas & apples ammo does not go bad with age.

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

Big question is, is this DHS purchase responsible for the shortages.

I recall that there was an article that debunked it.

So it would be wise to find out what the annual purchases prior to taking some actions.

[Utah Bob #35998]

I just cannot belive that DHS is the cause of the ammo shortage or even a serious contributing factor.

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

it does not matter, they can possibly need 2 billion rounds and that is wasteful. Worthy of email to my elected officials.

[Triggers McCool]

Does anyone have the contract number that indicates there was an award for up to 1-2 billion rounds? Seems like this would not meet the bonafide needs rule. Proof is in the pudding, what does the contract state?

[Madd Mike #8595]

they may not be the only cause

however

http://www.infowars.com/dhs-to-buy-360000-more-rounds-of-hollow-point-ammunition/

 

why all the ammo in the first place!

what do they expect, or what are they planning

maybe black market sales! at even higher prices

or perhaps

selling to mexico, so they can track it LOL

 

maybe these are all going to our southern border, before amnesty

http://www.infowars.com/video-hundreds-of-dhs-armored-trucks-on-the-move/

[Rye Miles #13621]

This shortage is because of citizens buying up everything they can get their hands on. Low information gunners are afraid they won't be able to get ANY ammo so they go in their local gun store and buy everything they can! Before all this hoopla a person would buy one or two boxes at a time, now they're looking for cases!!! My local shooting range (where I USED to work part time) was a #1 example of this. This is why stores are limiting ammo purchases to one or two per customer. Before I left there about a month ago people were wanting to buy ammo they didn't even have a gun to shoot it out of!!

 

 

Rye

[Col. Nathan C. Riddles, SASS # 7462]

Rye, I have no doubt that you are correct. But the feds are, at least in part, a big part of the problem. There has not been an ammo shortage for the non military market since WWII. Our local police have had to cut way back on practice & live fire training due to the ammo shortage.

 

The manufacturers are running 7 days a week 24 hrs to make as much as they can and still cannot come close to meeting the demand. They are reluctant to buy more equipment and hire more help until they see what kind of draconian laws the congress will pass. You can't really fault them for that.

 

Several years ago I sold my Kahr K40 40S&W. But I still have plenty of ammo & not a thing to shoot it out of. So last month I stopped by a local toy store and bought a nice Steyr Manlicher M40 in order to have something to shoot all that ammo in.

[T. H. O' Sullivan]

I shoot 30-30 out of my 1949 Winchester Model 94, and I am having a hard time finding that caliber. DHS is not shooting lever action rifles, at least not yet.

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

Someone on another thread posted some interesting concepts about what these purchases are and how they are structured.

IIRC they said that the DHS contracts are agreements about price and numbers but do not have deliver schedules.

Thus they don't actually represent actual purchases.

 

The shortages observed cover way more ammo types than the DHS contract specifies.

For example why is there no 22LR, 303/30 win, 30/06 etc in stock.

 

The 308 win7.62x51 Nato are not in stock either and they are not really a combat round used currently by the bulk of the USA armed forces.

They are used allegedly (I have no proof but hear) that some "special forces ( meaning seals, Army Special Forces etc." may be using them.

And of course I couldn't buy a sniff of a 5.56 round anywhere near here for double the normal price.

And 45 ACP are out of stock, now those are not used either by military yet there is some contracts to start using them for "special forces".

 

Please note that here I have used the term "special forces" to denote possible use by seals, army special forces (green beret) and any other elite type force.

[Col. Nathan C. Riddles, SASS # 7462]

Stop stockpiling ammo!! We need to post that on every gun forum on the net. I'll wager if people would do that you'd be able to buy all the ammo or components you want within 6 months at normal prices. Then you coul start stocking up a little at a time, every week or month. Don't go out and run your so called "old" ammo through a gun just so you have an excuse to go out and buy "fresh" ammo. There's really no such thing. Unlike bananas & apples ammo does not go bad with age.

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

It is truely time to write your elected officials and ask them to demand an explanation for these purchases. And, to recind any funding, if that is possible.

[Mink Shoals Bandit, #49388]

I think the bigger question is why do we need the DHS anyway ? Or the TSA ? Most Americans can't see where we are going with these departments..............

Mink.............

[Sonora Bill]

Why is it that those of you concerned with DHS po's being setup aren't as fired up about people stockpiling ammo for the boogeyman or to sell for profit or the merchandisers who are raising prices on ammo?

 

What are you going to think if DoD po's for ammo are posted? There are and will be bigger contracts setup for DoD especially if forward deployed stocks need to be replenished.

 

I was in Gander Mtn the other day and the only non shotgun loads they had were 7.62x39 at $10.50 a box of 20 for that no name generic box brand. A few months ago you could get it for less than $4. Look on any of the auction sites at ammo prices. That's not to mention the 12 or so individuals hanging about to see if an ammo shipment came in since Gander Mtn's ammo limit is 10 boxes a day per person, they were dissapointed when a truck didn't arrive. I would also be remiss by not mentioning those at my local. Club who talk about buying reloading components in lots 10k at a time, multiple times a month to boot.

 

Stop advancing the conspiracy theory and realize people (shooters and non shooters) are buying all the ammo. Some are doing it for pure profit.

[Sonora Bill]

double tap

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

Why is it that those of you concerned with DHS po's being setup aren't as fired up about people stockpiling ammo for the boogeyman or to sell for profit or the merchandisers who are raising prices on ammo?

 

What are you going to think if DoD po's for ammo are posted? There are and will be bigger contracts setup for DoD especially if forward deployed stocks need to be replenished.

 

I was in Gander Mtn the other day and the only non shotgun loads they had were 7.62x39 at $10.50 a box of 20 for that no name generic box brand. A few months ago you could get it for less than $4. Look on any of the auction sites at ammo prices. That's not to mention the 12 or so individuals hanging about to see if an ammo shipment came in since Gander Mtn's ammo limit is 10 boxes a day per person, they were dissapointed when a truck didn't arrive. I would also be remiss by not mentioning those at my local. Club who talk about buying reloading components in lots 10k at a time, multiple times a month to boot.

 

Stop advancing the conspiracy theory and realize people (shooters and non shooters) are buying all the ammo. Some are doing it for pure profit.

 

I COMPLETELY EXPECT our military to ready to fight the first couple years of the next war on what is in the warehouse, provided we are not at the next level of technology.

For example if we suddenly have phasers, vs a 5.56 nato round.

[Buckshot Frank]

This shortage is because of citizens buying up everything they can get their hands on. Low information gunners are afraid they won't be able to get ANY ammo so they go in their local gun store and buy everything they can! Before all this hoopla a person would buy one or two boxes at a time, now they're looking for cases!!! My local shooting range (where I USED to work part time) was a #1 example of this. This is why stores are limiting ammo purchases to one or two per customer. Before I left there about a month ago people were wanting to buy ammo they didn't even have a gun to shoot it out of!!

 

 

Rye

 

+1

The military and government agencies have always placed large ammo orders. This is nothing new and is not the cause of the ammo shortage. It is only getting a lot of press now because there is a shortage. If you want to blame someone for the shortage, blame the people that shoot 200 rounds a year that are buying every case of ammo that they see at 4 times the normal price. As long as it is a sellers market, it will be worth it for folks to line up at Walmart every Wed morning and buy ammo right off of the truck only to turn around and sell it for huge profits. This will continue until people refuse to purchase at inflated prices. Once this occurs, the speculators will quit buying, and ammo will appear on store shelves again. Welcome to capitalism...

[Buckshot Frank]

Someone on another thread posted some interesting concepts about what these purchases are and how they are structured.

IIRC they said that the DHS contracts are agreements about price and numbers but do not have deliver schedules.

Thus they don't actually represent actual purchases.

 

The shortages observed cover way more ammo types than the DHS contract specifies.

For example why is there no 22LR, 303/30 win, 30/06 etc in stock.

 

The 308 win7.62x51 Nato are not in stock either and they are not really a combat round used currently by the bulk of the USA armed forces.

They are used allegedly (I have no proof but hear) that some "special forces ( meaning seals, Army Special Forces etc." may be using them.

And of course I couldn't buy a sniff of a 5.56 round anywhere near here for double the normal price.

And 45 ACP are out of stock, now those are not used either by military yet there is some contracts to start using them for "special forces".

 

Please note that here I have used the term "special forces" to denote possible use by seals, army special forces (green beret) and any other elite type force.

7.62 Nato is used by more than just special operations groups. It is the common sniper round and is used in .30 cal machine guns.

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

7.62 Nato is used by more than just special operations groups. It is the common sniper round and is used in .30 cal machine guns.

 

Right but it is still NOT the round carried by the average soldier/marine in his/her normal rifle meaning M4/M16 etc.

That was my main point. That it was not a very high usage round.

 

Of course the main point for this thread is that as far as I have seen it is NOT a part of the DHS purchases.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Stop stockpiling ammo!! We need to post that on every gun forum on the net. I'll wager if people would do that you'd be able to buy all the ammo or components you want within 6 months at normal prices. Then you coul start stocking up a little at a time, every week or month. Don't go out and run your so called "old" ammo through a gun just so you have an excuse to go out and buy "fresh" ammo. There's really no such thing. Unlike bananas & apples ammo does not go bad with age.

I know guys who have bought every case of .223/5.56 and 7.62x51 ammo they could find in the past 3 months. In the past they would buy less than a case a year. I suspect they wil eventually sel it at a loss or their sons will inherit it.

We have nothing to fear but fear itself in this case. Well okay we do have someother things to fear...but pppanic buying is the biggest.

I have no idea how to slow it down though.