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Utah Bob #35998

10th DCA rules CC permits are not protected by 2a

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A Federal appeals court has ruled that permits allowing people to carry concealed weapons are not protected by the Second Amendment.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/02/23/appeals-court-upholds-concealed-weapons-ruling/

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Then a strong argument can be made that open carry must be allowed.

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Then a strong argument can be made that open carry must be allowed.

Exactly.

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Wasn't there a ruling to that effect about 5 or 6 years ago? Maybe in MI or WI?

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I get the feeling that this whole mess, gun bans and all, is going to end up in the SCOTUS. The big question, who will be the judges when that happens.

 

Dogmeat Dad

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You really ought to read the article.

The findings are about reciprocity being trumped by the 2nd Amendment.

The case was about a Washington state resident not being allowed to carry in Colorado.

Because Colorado does not recognize the CC permit by Washington.

 

It appears to me that UB misstated the case.

 

Not really a 2nd Amendment issue except that CC shouldn't need to happen.

Given that the issue of CC permits haven't been ruled unconstitutional this case has not real merit.

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You really ought to read the article.

The findings are about reciprocity being trumped by the 2nd Amendment.

The case was about a Washington state resident not being allowed to carry in Colorado.

Because Colorado does not recognize the CC permit by Washington.

 

It appears to me that UB misstated the case.

 

Not really a 2nd Amendment issue except that CC shouldn't need to happen.

Given that the issue of CC permits haven't been ruled unconstitutional this case has not real merit.

 

I agree that we shouldn't "need no stinking permits," but for now they are a fact of modern life. I think that this not only has 2nd Amendment issues, but also equal protection issues. And, as I mentioned, if that state refuses to recognize the permit issued by another state, then arguably it must allow open carry - after all, the RKBA is a fundamental civil right.

 

Ya know, the whole idea of reciprocity could come into question under the equal protection clause, as well as the full faith and credit clause.

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2nd Amendment Death by a thousand cuts. It seems like we're getting hit from all directions, from numerous sources. Makes my head spin. Never applied for a CC permit in New Mexico because I never wanted to fill out paperwork telling any government bureaucracy what I have. Around here I open carry, but there have been times in cold weather when my pistol belt is covered by a sheepskin coat (instant criminal). I'm sick of all this crap. I thank God daily for where I live in the middle of nowhere. Maybe I'm taking a "Prepper" mentality, but if the U.S. goes to Hell, at least I can continue my pre-Hell Constitutional United States on my ranch.

 

This past week I came in the ranchhouse to warm up and have some coffee, and turned on A.M. radio to hear Rush Limbaugh. Even he is resigned to the fact that we have crossed the line into a place we've never been before. If Rush has given up, it signals a new future. You can only send so many e-mails and make so many phone calls. Our government in certain States and the Federal Government are trying to destroy the basic foundations that set us apart in the world. These elected leaders are taking us on a suicidal path.

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I agree that we shouldn't "need no stinking permits," but for now they are a fact of modern life. I think that this not only has 2nd Amendment issues, but also equal protection issues. And, as I mentioned, if that state refuses to recognize the permit issued by another state, then arguably it must allow open carry - after all, the RKBA is a fundamental civil right.

 

Ya know, the whole idea of reciprocity could come into question under the equal protection clause, as well as the full faith and credit clause.

Just because Colorado doesn't recognize Washington state concealed carry permit does not grant a Washington state resident open carry in Colorado.

That sounds like pure legal mumbo jumbo. Furthermore the concealed carry permit issue is not protected under 2nd A.

The appeals court confirmed the status of legal mumbo jumbo to that claim.

The state of Colorado has concealed carry permit laws which must be

obeyed and are a legal restriction of 2nd A rights until incorporation

happens.

 

In any state that has concealed carry permits and no universal state wide open carry, the right to carry under the 2nd A is restricted by state law.

The only way that this state law issue will be solved is by having the 2nd Amendment incorporated. Only the supreme court can do that.

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The only way that this state law issue will be solved is by having the 2nd Amendment incorporated. Only the supreme court can do that.

What does "incorporating the 2nd Amendment" mean?

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Badlands, it means that it applies to the several states as well as the federal government. I find the concept odd because every state has in its state constitution a clause something like "The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land." Or, I think every state has wording like that. I could be wrong. But it seems to me that that wording would mean that all the protections in the US Constitution would apply in the states.

 

MCDONALD ET AL. v. CITY OF CHICAGO, ILLINOIS,
ET AL.

CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE SEVENTH CIRCUIT
No. 08–1521. Argued March 2, 2010—Decided June 28, 2010

 

JUSTICE ALITO delivered the opinion of the Court with respect toParts I, II–A, II–B, II–D, III–A, and III–B, concluding that the Four-teenth Amendment incorporates the Second Amendment right, rec-ognized in Heller, to keep and bear arms for the purpose of self-defense. Pp. 5–9, 11–19, 19–33.

 

SCOTUS did incorporate the 2nd against the States.

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OK, thanks.

 

Frankly, I'm wondering why full faith and credit doesn't automatically apply without a SCOTUS ruling. It's not just guns, but gay marriage has run into the same problem; a couple legally married in one state, aren't married in another.

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OK, thanks. Frankly, I'm wondering why full faith and credit doesn't automatically apply without a SCOTUS ruling. It's not just guns, but gay marriage has run into the same problem; a couple legally married in one state, aren't married in another.

State legislatures are passing laws that some of their constituents want but the residents of other states don't want.

This is the cost of having state legislatures that pass laws for thier states and then have residents expect them to be accepted elsewhere.

On an international level do we want that portability. Heck no, we don't want the UK, Australian, or any other anti-gun country passing a law expecting it to portable to the USA.

This question matters more if the proponents of a law in one state are "in your face" in another state about the law.

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If Gray Peterson, the traveler from Washington state had visited this webpage he would have found that his permit was not accepted.

 

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

 

It turns out that Colorado is a shall issue to residents ONLY.

And Washington state is a shall issue to residents and non-residents.

 

This is according to the first page seen at the above link.

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I guess that is what you could call "free verse."

 

Well, the spam was removed, so that comment now makes no sense.

 

Not that it made much before the spam post was removed either.

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