Dusty Sometimes Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Got a great used Win 97 shotgun and finished refinishing it last month. Test fired it, no problem. Showed it to a buddy today and it's locked up tight. Before I take it to a gunsmith does anybody have any suggestions please? The slide is to the rear, the bolt is to the rear but the action is up and not dropped down as is normal. Since the bolt is rearward, I can't take it apart by unscrewing the hammer assembly. Since it's locked up I can't take the gun apart because I can't push the slide forward. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloradoblackjack Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 you can try this but remember...i am NOT a gunsmith and i did NOT stay at a holiday in last night. but when one of our 97's locks open this is what i do when i have it back in my shop... place the muzzle down on a soft piece of wood (like a 2x4). take up all the slack on the bolt by pushing it down towards the muzzle. hold the buttstock with one hand and with the other give the back of the bolt a smart rap with a rubber mallet. don't use a steel hammer because you don't want to create more problems than you already have. as long as the slide arm is in one piece this has a good chance of working. cbj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaky Molasses, SASS 20549 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 A buddy dealt with this for me once, so I am not sure of the procedure, but I know he removed the lever as the first step. Everything then came apart easily and he put all the parts back in -- without any left over. That always amazes me, when there are no extra parts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 A buddy dealt with this for me once, so I am not sure of the procedure, but I know he removed the lever as the first step. Everything then came apart easily and he put all the parts back in -- without any left over. That always amazes me, when there are no extra parts! Lever? LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Got a great used Win 97 shotgun and finished refinishing it last month. Test fired it, no problem. Showed it to a buddy today and it's locked up tight. Before I take it to a gunsmith does anybody have any suggestions please? The slide is to the rear, the bolt is to the rear but the action is up and not dropped down as is normal. Since the bolt is rearward, I can't take it apart by unscrewing the hammer assembly. Since it's locked up I can't take the gun apart because I can't push the slide forward. Any ideas? Without getting my hands on the gun, it is tough to know what the problem is. I can make a couple of guesses, but the one thing I will advise against is to take a hammer to it. Not trying to start an argument in saying that, but as the doctors say, "First, do no harm." Vintage parts for these guns are getting more difficult to find, and why do something you might feel foolish for later? Anyway, the problem could be anything from a broken left side extractor, a broken action slide lock, either the action slide lock joint pin screw or the action slide lock spring screw coming out, a broken action slide hook screw or a few other things, including something going on with the action slide itself and/or some component(s) forward of the receiver. Someone who understands the gun and the take-down procedure should take a look at it, but personally, if I didn't know that, I wouldn't arbitrarily whack it with a hammer to free up the bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Cock the hammer and push the release on the right side. Then push the side to the muzzle, and then pull the slide back towards you while hold'n the release down. GOOD LUCK LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purly SASS # 57438 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Take a small flat screwdriver, slip it between the hammer and the bolt, press the hammer down to release hammer tension on the bolt. You should be abel to push the bolt back into the reciever, if there are no broken parts holding the bolt back. I am not a gunsmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monco Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Something is preventing the carrier from dropping and the action slides carrier guide nub is probably bound up in the carrier guide slot (don't know the proper terminoligy of that channel where the action slide tip interfaces)......as some have said, it is tough to say exactly what kept the carrier up without gun in hand. It does kind of sound like the action slide stop might be malfunctioning possibly preventing the carrier from lowering?? Maybe it is interfering with the LH cartridge stop??? Or maybe the action slide stop pin retaining screw or slide stop spring retaining screw backed out enough to catch on something??? You could try sliding a feeler gauge between the LH side of the carrier and receiver to try to find any interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awful Close Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 i can't figure out how the bolt came back with the carrier up. UNLESS: Sounds like when the action was opened -bolt back, carrier down, it jammed open for whatever reason. Someone may have tried pushing the carrier up hoping that would help. But instead the action slide lock engaged and is locking the carrier in the up position. Try freeing it with the feeler gauge technique. You might gain some extra space by removing the shell stop (only if this is a E model. Worse case scenario is the action lock is engaged and you can't get it loose with the feeler gauge, then the frame can be spread open wide enough to get to the lock, then bent back to it's original position.( I would let a 97 expert do that). I have also seen carriers that have been cut to allow access to the lock (pretty much destroys the carrier). BTW, You did push in the recoil lock button and try to lower the carrier didn't you ? Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaky Molasses, SASS 20549 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Lever? LG Sorry, wrong gun! Thinking a '97 rilfe. Opps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 '97 rilfe Show me one....... LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bo bean 61280 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 you have to get the bolt closed first thing. rubber hammer is easiest way, maybe the only way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Stone Sass#58681 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Not to be a butt here. But, maybe Shakey Molasses was thinking of the 97 Marlin? Its a great gun. Just not a SASS gun unless used in a 22 match. Anyway there is a 97 rifle. Deacon Stone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Sometimes Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 I finally got it! After 2 days of tears, prayers, salty language and more prayers, I just freed it an hour ago! Just a recap: the slide was to the rear, the bolt was to the rear and the carrier assembly was up and not dropped. Lastly, the whole thing was frozen and wouldn't budge. After checking all the screws, that didn't help. Gently tapping down on the bolt didn't help. Gently tapping down the carrier assembly didn't help. Finally I inverted the shotgun and gently tapped down on the wooden pump slide and it released the whole thing. This was after removing the stock and trigger assembly. OMG does this gun have 1,001 parts, screws, springs, pins, etc. It's impressive for 1897 engineering. Thanls Pards for all of your advice, tips and thoughts! Dusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I think Marlin made an 1897 'Texan' in .22 a few years back. Beautiful little .22 lever rifle with octagon barrel. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I think Marlin made an 1897 'Texan' in .22 a few years back. Beautiful little .22 lever rifle with octagon barrel. ..........Widder YUP, They sure did. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 It's GREAT that you got the gun freed up. The Win 97 is a John Browning design. It's a work of art, really. It has some 85 to 90 parts in it and it can be complicated if you don't understand it. The more you work with it, the more you appreciate the design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulshan 20262 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I think Marlin made an 1897 'Texan' in .22 a few years back. Beautiful little .22 lever rifle with octagon barrel. ..........Widder Yep, and the interesting part is they made it by cutting 4 inches off of a 97 Cowboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Adams 3674 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I finally got it! After 2 days of tears, prayers, salty language and more prayers, I just freed it an hour ago! Just a recap: the slide was to the rear, the bolt was to the rear and the carrier assembly was up and not dropped. Lastly, the whole thing was frozen and wouldn't budge. After checking all the screws, that didn't help. Gently tapping down on the bolt didn't help. Gently tapping down the carrier assembly didn't help. Finally I inverted the shotgun and gently tapped down on the wooden pump slide and it released the whole thing. This was after removing the stock and trigger assembly. OMG does this gun have 1,001 parts, screws, springs, pins, etc. It's impressive for 1897 engineering. Thanls Pards for all of your advice, tips and thoughts! Dusty Well, they say that John M Browning was a genius.........those of us who shoot the 1897 are not so sure about that! Glad you got it worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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