1776 all over again?

[Seldom Seen #16162]

I have stated this before and will repeat it again; Gun Owners are our own worst enemy. Even more to the point cowboy action shooters are a perfect example of how Obama’s divide and conquer tactic may work. After all the government only wants to ban certain types of semi-auto guns not my harmless cowboy guns and well, banning sale of guns between private individuals is ok cause I have all the guns I need.

 

Approximately 66,000,000 voted for Obama and 61,000,000 for Romney with a difference of only 5,000,000 votes.

 

Independents are voters who identified themselves as "independent" of the Democrats and Republicans. Nationally, they make up about a third of all voters.

 

Consider that Libertarian Party (the only party that believes in the 2A) candidate Governor Gary Johnson received 1,000,000 votes.

 

Now consider that approximately 43 - 45,000,000 (that’s right million) households have at least one gun. Consider further how many eligible voters live in those households…if only half of the households have two eligible voters that is 90,000,000 potential 2A votes.

 

Gee, if the GOP could attract the Libertarian voters and more gun owners…well, it would not even be a close vote.

[Seldom Seen #16162]

For those that care here is the link for the printed transcript of the Piers Morgan Alex Jones program aired on January 7th;

 

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1301/07/pmt.01.html

 

Oh while those of you who are searching for a national candidate that will debate in a calm, rational tone of voice while wearing a nice non-offensive suit and tie you need not worry. Obama and the Democrats will already have their anti-gun bills passed.

 

“In addition to potential legislative proposals, Biden’s group has expanded its focus to include measures that would not need congressional approval and could be quickly implemented by executive action”

 

…and…

 

“This is not something that I will be putting off,” Obama said on NBC’s “Meet the Press” in an interview broadcast last Sunday.

 

…add..

 

At the White House meeting, Stanek said, “the vice president indicated that there was a very short timeline for him to get back to the president with his recommendations because the American public has a short memory.”

 

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-01-05/politics/36208875_1_gun-issue-brady-campaign-assault-weapons-ban

 

 

But what the heck at least we were calm and rational while we lost our gun rights.

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

I kwit doing the spell chex thang long ago, it made two many mistakes. Lone Dog makes a couple of good points but misses a couple also. When we look at the demographics of gun owners, we are a pretty shabby group guys, many of us are quite possibly a weeks worth of pills/shots away from deaths doorstep and most gunbelts I see going by are looking like forty something! The only reason that the other side has not done wiped us out is, quite frankly, somebody has to keep signing the checks! What we have watched the democrats pull together over the last fifty years has been the largest majority of minorities ever assembled to further a single cause, free stuff. It is just plain unreal how they have managed to pull together groups that actually hate each others guts to pull for a single goal, elect a democrat. It is amazing that so many would walk from the door of a Catholic church to vote along side an abortion nurse, a hunter to vote beside an animal rights activist, a tree hugger to vote beside a unionised paper mill worker and the list is endless, with each thinking his cause is the holy grail of the democratic party. And yet we are the party that can never find enough common ground to stand together.

[Lead Ringer]

Although it's difficult, I think we need to look at all these discussions from the viewpoint of the undecided American; the guy who may not have guns and isn't sure about the need for them but is not necessarily anti-gun. We need to make them think about what's makes sense and what's at stake. Those are the ones that need convincing, not us. The rabid gun grabbers wil never see our point of view so our appeal must be to the millions of others who, we pray, may still possess some measure of common sense.

.................................................................................

Didn't that just happen with the last election? It didn't work out so well.

Why does the right have to calm and civilized, but the left can be vocal bomb throwers? ? The lefts tacts have worked very well.

Just a thought.

Ringer

[Seldom Seen #16162]

It's there to remind me that the "other side" isn't necessarily a bad guy.

 

 

 

No, they're not. They want the same basic thing we do, to make this a better country. The problem is that both sides are seeking easy answers, when the easy answer is usually the wrong answer. *My* problem is that I sympathize generally with both sides, which wins me friends in neither camp.

 

It isn't a question of public safety versus the 2nd amendment, and the answer, if there is one, will not be found solely in one or the other. The answer will be found when/if we figure out how to keep the public safe while simultaneously respecting *everyone's* rights. Of course, it may turn out that there is no final answer and we're fated to have this debate as long as the country survives.

 

But I digress. Here's a prophecy: If the anti-gunners keep pointing to dead children while the pro-gunners keep pointing to their rights and to nothing else, the antis will win and the pros will blame everyone but themselves.

 

Badlands Beady,

 

You are posting your comments as a former gun owner right?

 

I mean as someone that advocates physically beating mentally ill children, I believe your exact term is “take a belt”, you have surrendered your guns haven’t you?

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

It is a worry because every gun advocate they put on TV who cannot put forth calm, reasoned arguments does not help our cause. And the media is more than happy to put someone on who will make the left look like the reasonable side.

Guy couldn't even put a suit on for a national TV appearance?

 

Here's a good example of a 'calm, reasoned arguments'...and he isn't wearing a suit.

 

 

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/01/08/former-marine-schools-piers-morgan-americans-arent-trigger-happy-medi

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:/>

[Badlands Beady]

Badlands Beady,

 

You are posting your comments as a former gun owner right?

 

I mean as someone that advocates physically beating mentally ill children, I believe your exact term is "take a belt", you have surrendered your guns haven't you?

 

http://www.nizkor.or...ad-hominem.html:

 

 

 

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B makes an attack on person A.
3. Therefore A's claim is false.

The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

 

http://dictionary.re...se/ad%20hominem:

 

ad ho·mi·nem

adjective

1.

appealing to one's prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one's intellect or reason.

2.

attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument.

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

The other side are emboldened and they have a great champion who has one every battle against us so far. So far.

 

Oh, and BK don't look now but Iowa doesn't have a Congress. Just a legislature which can be referred to as a congress (lower case) but it confuses the peanut gallery.

Lone Dog, my brother, where would we be without your obsessive spell/grammar/fact nit-picking? You're right, of course, that Iowa doesn't have a "CONGRESS", however, had you simply opened the link you would have quickly noted that the title referenced the 'CongressMAN' accurately.

 

But, once again... and always I defer to your oneing this one.

[Madd Mike #8595]

I have stated this before and will repeat it again; Gun Owners are our own worst enemy. Even more to the point cowboy action shooters are a perfect example of how Obama’s divide and conquer tactic may work. After all the government only wants to ban certain types of semi-auto guns not my harmless cowboy guns and well, banning sale of guns between private individuals is ok cause I have all the guns I need.

 

Approximately 66,000,000 voted for Obama and 61,000,000 for Romney with a difference of only 5,000,000 votes.

 

Now consider that approximately 43 - 45,000,000 (that’s right million) households have at least one gun. Consider further how many eligible voters live in those households…if only half of the households have two eligible voters that is 90,000,000 potential 2A votes.

 

 

 

If gun owners would vote for the freedom given to us by the founding fathers

Instead of vote for

The promise of free stuff

 

We would then: remain “free to own and bear arms”

And the magazines for them as well

 

Freedom is very basic

 

This country is too large to forcefully take our firearms away

But,, they can make felons of us all, in passing clever laws,

Ones that are in reality useless in stopping real crime

Just waiting to gig us in traffic stops at a later time

 

it will take a while, but over time and about one more generation

we wont even remimber what freedom was in :FlagAm:/>

 

who remimbers during the clinton ban, that the california DA sent EOT shooters a letter to carry with them, to show if necessary during a trafic stop, that their single shot rifle was NOT an assult weapon because it could "emplty it full capacity in one trigger pull"

how many shooters remember that

I sure wish I had kept the letter, did anyone else keep theirs????

[Seldom Seen #16162]

http://www.nizkor.or...ad-hominem.html:

 

http://dictionary.re...se/ad%20hominem:

 

I didn't think so...

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

More REASONABLE-NESS for you: SHOOT ALEX JONES Yet I wonder just what it will take for the cowards calling for 'reasonableness' to understand that the Jews herded onto the trains were being 'reasonable' and assured that everything was just going to be fine after their showers.

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

Now that they have control on your healthcare. Once they get control on your means of resistance then the rest is easy. If you don't think that can happen, think about this:

 

Imagine 50 years ago. The year would be 1963. Roy Rogers, Rifleman, Roundup, Cheyenne Bowdie and cap guns; would you ever have imagined that the government of the USA would be in this much control of every facet of your life?

 

Now, give up your 2nd Amendment rights and just think what this will look like to your grandchildren and their children in another 50 years.

 

Great article and a HUGE win for the NRA. Read this and remember that this is why we MUST support them with real American dollars: OBAMACARE GUN PROVISION HIDDEN

[Guest Texas Jack Black]

As usual, TJB has no counterpoint other than an ad hominem attack of the messenger.

 

 

You take the cake.It was you who cast the first stone by calling me a TROLL because I called Alex Jones a nut.He is a nut and anyone who follows him is a NUT .ARE YOU A FOLLOWER???

[Six-Shot]

You take the cake.It was you who cast the first stone by calling me a TROLL because I called Alex Jones a nut.He is a nut and anyone who follows him is a NUT .ARE YOU A FOLLOWER??? ;)/>/>

 

. . . and Piers Morgan is rational? :wacko:/>

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

In this thread I count 13 posts by me with 8 links to outside articles and videos. Oviously, there is quite a bit of research out there. My own effort is specifically focused on providing enough research/ background, data and opinion so that any of us can find it when it may be necessary. We also must form some sort of a coalition as we defend the 2nd Amendment.

 

My view is that each and every single one of those who are dedicated to that goal must be free to express their own opinion in their own way. Certainly as freely as the White House now argues that Piers Morgan is free to express his under the 1st Amendment.

 

So trolls like TJB only serve to strengthen the opposition by ad hominem attacks that have no added value to the knowledge base. Feel free to check my 13 -14 posts; there isn't one in which I jump to carry any ONE argument other than my own, which is simply that "reasonableness" is what has gotten us into the corner in which we now find ourselves. Reasonableness didn't work for Romney or McCain and it hasn't worked for the conservative goals in the last 50 years.

 

Become educated and ignore those who seek to divide PRO- RIGHTS advocates defined by their agendas into a camp of nutcases. We must continue to support efforts like the gun clause that the NRA got Reid to insert into the Affordable Care Act. We must also continue to support the right of JOnes, Nugent and others who are more animated to speak their minds as well.

[Guest Texas Jack Black]

It is OK BK most know Alex Jones and his followers are WACKOS .You made a mistake,NO need to attempt to grovel about it or try to blame me for your error in judgement.Most FOLLOWERS wake up someday and see the error of their ways. :P

[Bear Claw Dave]

They hand pick people like this to appear on these talk shows, because they Know they will go off and look like idiots. Morgan has the right to say what ever he wants, that's the First Amendment. I have the right to annoy the hell out of him because I am a gun owner, that's the Second Amendment.

[Madd Mike #8595]

Let me get this straight

A bloke comes to America

Probably due to its freedoms granted by :FlagAm:/> OUR USA constitution :FlagAm:/>

He then finds success of sorts, then HE, trys to tell a 2nd amendment believer :FlagAm:/>

That we :FlagAm:/> need to go down the road, that bloody ol England did

The whole of England is about the size of one State in the USA :FlagAm:/>

It is a monarchy that still kisses royalty feet

 

I do not blame the guy for getting a tadd bit agitated

 

Folks-wake-up

Our very freedoms are at stake BIGG-TIME

 

Madd-0NE

 

Post script

Definition of BLOKE chiefly British: man, fellow.

&

A monarchy is a form of government in which sovereignty is actually or nominally embodied in a single individual (the monarch).

[Dee Mak Jack, SASS #55905]

Piers is an idot that asks questions while interviewing and then does not give the one that is being interviewd a chance to answer.

 

Larry Pratt(of GOA) tried to answer some questions with dignity and reason on the Piers show a short time ago and was trashed by Peirs and not give the opportunity to answer. Now some of you on this forum feel the Alex Jones was out of control for doing to Piers, exactly what Piers did to Larry Pratt. I'm all for a diplomatic approach when given a proper chance for it to work but...... with people like Piers, I say STICK IT TO EM ALEX.

 

If we ar awating the people sitting on the fence to make a move we are wasting our time. The bashing of the 2nd ammendment has been going on for years and they are still on the fence ????? They'll all fall off the fence(and land on their heads) but only after it's too late.

[crosscut hardy]

Stand against any and all forms of gun control or Die,

 

Thats what it ultimately leads to.

 

....crosscut hardy

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Finally a voice of reason.As to my spelling, I do use spell check, -_-/> -_-/>

 

THINK about it. As a sentient or semi-sentient being you have that luxury. NObody's computer or spell check has that ability. Spell check is a dumb machine. Both roll and role are spelled correctly so spell check is going to allow either without protest. It has no concept of context.

 

 

Lone Dog, my brother, where would we be without your obsessive spell/grammar/fact nit-picking? You're right, of course, that Iowa doesn't have a "CONGRESS", however, had you simply opened the link you would have quickly noted that the title referenced the 'CongressMAN' accurately.

 

But, once again... and always I defer to your oneing this one.

 

Har!! Hoisted on me own petard. Let this be a lesson: never post in the wee hours when sleep beckons strongly. I did read the article. He is a, I believe I read, legislator, not a congresscritter and the legislation he proposed is in the state legislature not Congress. Of course, as stated above, I was exceedingly sleepy and tho wide awake now I cannot muster the argumentitiveness to take a look at the article again. Ye are doing a good job here BK being a spokesman for our beliefs and preaching to us the choir. Our main problem is how to get all the sheeple to wake up and smell the coffee. I fear it is a task too big and too impossible for you, Jones, draft dodger Nuge or almost anyone. If only we could talk Tom Selleck into the NRA presidency, I think he could carry the Charlton Heston torch well just going by how he lambasted ole Rosie that one time. Alas he is probably too smart to take on such a mammoth task. Someone is sorely needed, and it ain't Wayne LaPierre...

[Henry T Harrison]

This guy no matter how valid the message did us no favors

[Madd Mike #8595]

This guy no matter how valid the message did us no favors

 

but grasshopper

 

cant we learn from it

be just as motivated as he was

and do a better job

 

the left has more of his type than we doo

 

just sayin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

yes

I know

I know

 

it dont make it right

 

perhaps

more of us may need the fire in the belly

however

better put on camera

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

To all who care and to those who dare, go visit The Drudge Report tonight... as in right-effn-now. There are about 15 links there that demonstrate way better than I ever could what the results of our reasonable negotiations have spawned. www.drudgereport.com

 

 

but grasshopper

 

cant we learn from it

be just as motivated as he was

and do a better job

 

the left has more of his type than we doo

A lot of big talk for a one-eyed fat man. You ever been on camera and had to look smart, entertain, be 2nd guessed, have to deliver and unpopular message? Like they say, "a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks."

 

Sittin' back with a glass of bourbon and people who know you and spouting your 'reasonableness' drivel is a lot different than rolling the film with the lights on and a microphone in your face. But, hey, it's comfortable to sit and criticize those who are out actually doing something. That way when it doesn't work out you have someone to blame it on rather than getting up off your dead ass and on your dying feet and stepping up to the plate; into the fray; out into the arena.

 

When it's won at least you'll be able to say that you were all in support of the winners. Until then sit in the corner and criticize, judge and speak in contempt of those on the front lines as if you could do better, but you're just waiting for the right moment.

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

Guys who watch this Morgoon guy know exactly who he is and what he is, either they like the style or are just hoping to occasionally see him git whipped up on. Neither type viewer was particularly swayed BUT if they let his show sway them then do not crack on the guy who fights fire with fire but lambaste the sheeple audience who can not see it for what it is. HMMM perhaps I should state that this is not intended to be an insult to those of you here whose sensibilities were so stressed by this media whore guy getting his ars handed to him on a saucer! :lol:

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

This guy no matter how valid the message did us no favors

 

...and people who sit back, say they are supporters of firearm rights, and do nothing also do us no favors.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:/>

[Madd Mike #8595]

To all who care and to those who dare, go visit The Drudge Report tonight... as in right-effn-now. There are about 15 links there that demonstrate way better than I ever could what the results of our reasonable negotiations have spawned. www.drudgereport.com

 

 

 

A lot of big talk for a one-eyed fat man.

 

 

I am a deaf carpenter, not really all that fat either

 

I think folks can learn from the interview

the fellow had great points to make about freedoms soon lost in

he was

just inexperienced in front of a camera

 

I support the fight to bear arms

and not fall for silly bans on anything, or even related to guns

I dont evey buy mandatory gov approved storage, if that is all the executive order will have in it.

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

After watching Morgooins tactics in the second interview I think the boy done just right but perhaps he should have slurred a bit of slobber in the Brits face , just to see if thet old limy had any uhhh man parts. In my best Dolly Parton voice, "Please, please lets not insult the good folks on the left!"