Bottom Dealin Mike, SASS #22273 Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 I did a little teaser video where I shoot two 1911s ...kind of a Wild Bunch gunfighter. Several people mentioned that I aim both guns with my right eye, which slows me down and leads to a lot of gun movement. That got me wondering how you CAS gunfighters aim. Do you use the same eye for each gun, or do you aim using both eyes...left eye, left revolver, right eye, right revolver. During matches I see a lot of gunfighter style shooting, but since I'm behind them, I never really noticed how they aim. (you guys do aim, don't you?) Thanks in advance
Frenchy Yukon Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 When I shoot I keep both eyes open and look directly at the target. I then move each pistol back and forth just enough to center it in my line of sight. I then aim using my perithial vision while concentraiting on the target. I shoot all of my guns this way and only aim with one eye when taking a long or difficult shot. If you concentrate on the target your eyes will still see the sights and you will center them but not have to stare at them. If you leave both eyes open you can find your targets faster also.
Russ T. Sites Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 I'm left eye dominate . I shot my rifle with my right eye and move my head slightly using my left eye shooting gunfighter.. I try to keep the pistols close to each other to keep the movement down
Preacher Ben Pray'n Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 Ben shoot'n gunfighter for bout 5 years now. I use both eyes. Left for left pistol, Right for right pistol. Less pistol movement, Yet allows to begin moving the next pistol toward the next target, then aquire the sight as pistol moving to shoot. Long live gun fighters!
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 I would be surprised if any particular way is 'the best' way due to the various abilities of each GF. I use my right eye dominant and make an effort to focus on front site. If I remember correctly, Bad River Marty (who is one of the best anywhere), uses BOTH eyes. He's told me that he keeps both eyes open and uses right eye for right pistol and left eye for left pistol. My opinion, I think those real good double cockers all use this method. Mileage varies on this. ..........Widder
Russ T. Sites Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 Maybe this winter ill try left eye left pistol right eye right pistol
Madd Mike #8595 Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 I am very left eye dominate I have to shoot with one eye closed widdow is right do what works best for you and it many not be what most folks say to do
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 Several people mentioned that I aim both guns with my right eye, which slows me down and leads to a lot of gun movement. That got me wondering how you CAS gunfighters aim. I'm guessing that "several people" are not gunfighters. Since you typically aim with your right eye, doing so shooting gunfighter is "correct" for you. Here's a similar thread from a few days ago about shooting duelist where I elaborated on my thoughts regarding this subject. To minimize head movement, hold pistols very close together. A glance at my pistols after a match quickly reveals which gun was in which hand. The right gun has powder residue on the left side from the left gun and vice versa.
Mack Hacker, #60477 Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 Gee. Now I have something else to think about.
Madd Mike #8595 Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 I'm guessing that "several people" are not gunfighters. Since you typically aim with your right eye, doing so shooting gunfighter is "correct" for you. Here's a similar thread from a few days ago about shooting duelist where I elaborated on my thoughts regarding this subject. To minimize head movement, hold pistols very close together. A glance at my pistols after a match quickly reveals which gun was in which hand. The right gun has powder residue on the left side from the left gun and vice versa. I shoot my pistols (GF) pictched inward at the top less distance between the two different sight plains
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 I shoot my pistols (GF) pictched inward at the top less distance between the two different sight plains Semi-gangsta gunfighter. Mike, now you're revealing trade secrets.
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 Possum Skinner is not revealing any secrets. "We just smiled and waved...sittin' on that sack of seeds."
Guest Tennessee Stud, SASS# 43634 Life Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 A question for gunfighters [/size]How do you aim? I don't... that's why the safest place around when I'm shootin'... is the target. Widdowmaker is the best I've seen round here. You need to see T Bone Dooley... this is one of the most unusual gunfighter shooters you will ever see... watch this... ts
Wyandot Jim Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 No problem when lost sight in my right eye about the time I started CAS. Did have to learn how to shoot long guns left handed since I'm right handed Just an Old One Eyed Fat Man
Trailboss (Santa) Dave Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 I shoot with both eyes open. But due to a destroyed left wrist and broken left arm and my left hand now places the gun in that hand sidways right over my right gun. the result is I can sight both guns at the same time.
Anvil Al #59168 Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 I am very left eye dominate I have to shoot with one eye closed widdow is right do what works best for you and it many not be what most folks say to do ;)/> Might be one of the few things MM and me agree on.
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 Possum Skinner is not revealing any secrets. "We just smiled and waved...sittin' on that sack of seeds." :lol:/>/> Buck, That emoticon actually might as well be a picture. I shoot with one eye closed and a bit of a smile.
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 Dominate eye (right) for both pistols. Like Buck D Law said, keep pistols close together. Good Luck Jefro Relax-Enjoy
J-BAR #18287 Posted January 6, 2013 Posted January 6, 2013 At my age it's just a great comfort to know that the weakest part of my body is my left thumb. I'm not gonna worry about my eyes for a while.
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 6, 2013 Posted January 6, 2013 Both eyes open keeping as straight a plane as possible with the pistols and focusing on the FRONT sight just at below center of target. But I am no great gunfighter so..... GG ~ :FlagAm:/>
Tracker Mike SASS #38824 Posted January 6, 2013 Posted January 6, 2013 Shot double duelest for years - left gun with left eye and right gun with right eye. Started gunfighter a little over two years ago and just could not make that work real smoothly for me - just taking too long for the other eye to quickly pick up the sight. Now I just try to keep the guns close and use my right eye for both guns - that has worked much better. I still work using both eyes and may yet go back to that as some of the other GF considerations become more automatic. As others have noted, you just have to see what works for you. I would not be considered one of the faster GF's.
Russ T. Sites Posted January 6, 2013 Posted January 6, 2013 Tried both eyes open dry firing , that will never work for me to much time on focusing il stick to using my left eye
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted January 6, 2013 Posted January 6, 2013 Gotta agree with Widder. There is no single "Best" way. 90 percent of us are dominant in one eye and can't switch focusing eyes from side to side. Personally, I also shoot the same method as Madd Mike, semi gangsta. Keeps the sights closer together. Cuts down on the head movement. Since we change targets as we change guns, it doesn't really impact our efficiency and we would be hard pressed to really say we changed eyes. My suggestion is to move your head rather than the guns when firing on a dump target. We all have to change focus. It is physiologically not possible to focus on two completely separate objects at the same time, so piddle around at he range and settle on whatever is most comfortable for you. Oh, since shooting Gunfighter is the most fun you can have while fully dressed, HAVE FUN with it. Coffinmaker
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted January 6, 2013 Posted January 6, 2013 To elaborate on Widder's comment: Whatever allows a shooter to get their sights in focus the quickest is what they should do. The bad news is you can't change it simply because we have the eyes we were issued. While some might be able to shoot with both eyes open, for most, it means one eye closed or partially closed. I think it'd be a hard case to make that shooting with one eye closed is a handicap. Disclaimer: This following is rambling and has no affect on how well anybody will shoot. It is for the ponderers who just like to think about stuff, knowing that when we ponder to the point of understanding, or thinking we understand, nothing will really change. Ultimately, as they say, it is what it is. Still, we enjoy coming a bit closer to knowing why, or possibly just having a more informed understanding of...it is what it is. Most of what is below is based upon observation as opposed to scientific study. It's unlikely that anyone will learn anything from it, but it might make somebody think a bit more about what they already know. I remember buying a 35 millimeter camera many years ago and being introduced to a term called depth of field. To me, it simply meant that when my camera was at a particular focus, objects within a certain range would be in focus and those outside that range would be blurry. An object at four feet up to five feet might be in focus while blurring anything closer or farther away. Here's an example. Since our eyes function very similar to a camera lens, we experience the same thing when we clearly (hopefully) see our sights on a blurry target. What we might sometimes forget is that the same thing can happen with our sights. If our primary focus is on the rear sight and our depth of field is less than the distance from our rear sight to our front sight, our front sight will be blurry to some extent. That is why we are instead advised to focus on the front sight. We can better handle our rear sights being slightly out of focus. Some misunderstand this to mean that the rear sight may be ignored. Not so. Somewhere in the area of 20 feet, our eyes focus to infinity. When looking at our rifle targets, our eyes are focused the same as they are viewing the stars. Kinda weird to think about, huh? Inside 20 feet, the task of focusing becomes more difficult. The last two to four feet (where our sights are) can get tricky. Shorter than that can literally make you cross-eyed. Somewhere just beyond the I'm-about-to-be-cross-eyed area, our two eyes, that come in real handy for depth perception, rebel and say, "Buddy, you don't need depth perception at this distance! Here, see how you like seeing the same thing twice!" One view from the left eye and the same thing from the right eye. No worries, the brain knows how to fix the problem, sends a little Morse Code, and one of the eyelids close. Wah-lah! Now you see just one set of sights. How close does an object have to be before we close an eye to avoid seeing double? Depends on the person. There, I just said what Widder said, but with about a zillion more words. Now for some speculation, since everything I've said up to this point including the brain using Morse Code is hard fact: I'm thinking that people who shoot with both eyes open, whether they realize it or not, are still using their dominant eye to sight their guns just as we use our dominant eye any other time we have both eyes open. How can they not? For some, keeping both eyes open is the quickest way to focus on their sights while others can focus quicker by either closing, or partially closing, one eye. Did I mention that I agree with Widder?
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted January 6, 2013 Posted January 6, 2013 And I agreed with my good friend Buck. Hey Buck, you might want to think about putting the above info in your booklet that you have for beginning (or experienced) Gunfighters. That is good info. ..........Widder
Cassalong Hopidy Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 I'm guessing that "several people" are not gunfighters. Since you typically aim with your right eye, doing so shooting gunfighter is "correct" for you. Here's a similar thread from a few days ago about shooting duelist where I elaborated on my thoughts regarding this subject. To minimize head movement, hold pistols very close together. A glance at my pistols after a match quickly reveals which gun was in which hand. The right gun has powder residue on the left side from the left gun and vice versa. Buck What I would like to know is how to reduce left-right muzzle movement while cocking. Get little to none with my right hand, but quite a bit when cocking the left gun. I have watched the cocking motions and cannot tell that I am doing anything different with the left hand, but must be bringing that hammer back at more of a side angle. Very hard to pull the hammer straight back and do it quickly. Any thoughts or suggestions? Cassalong Hopidy
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Cassalong: I ain't Buck but I have slept at a Holiday Inn Express last year..... :lol:/> Some of those 'movement' items you ask about can be minimized with correct hammer style, hammer spring strength, grip style and grip size (width and length). My hands are small, comparitively. I like the 'short style' Ruger grip on my Vaqueros. I also like the Eagle GF grips. Although I didn't have any trouble with speed shooting the pistols with the original style hammers, I do prefer the SBH hammer style on my pistols. All those things PLUS.....lots of practice (dry firing) helped me alot. Hopes this helps alittle. Ask BUCK to forward you a copy of his 'GF Intro' book. EDIT: oops, one other thing I forgot to mention. I cock my left pistol immediately after firing it. In other words, I cock the left pistol while shooting the right pistol. Lots of GFer's do this. If you can run your pistols in this manner, any movement basically becomes a non-issue because its already cocked for your next target. All you have to focus on is front sight/target. ..........Widder
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 +1 on the Eagle Gunfighter grips... GG
Hashknife Cowboy Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 I shoot with both eyes open and aim instintively...works for me. I do not use my pistol or rifle sights in a SASS event, on occasion I use the rifle sights if the target is farther than normal or a precise hit is needed.
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Cassalong, Winders wise words of wisdom are right on. Soz Buck D. Those of us who shoot with both eyes open still shoot with the domanent eye on our eye on the gun sights. It is physiologically impossible to do otherwise. Alternate cocking of your guns won't eliminate the wiggle of your left hand but will make it a non issue. Coffinmaker
Kid Ziggy SASS 76870 Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 I don't know anything about the science or physiology. Since attending a class by T-Bone Dooley, I have been using a "Brock String" (spelling?), when I remember to, to help train my eyes to function together. I am left-eye dominant but mostly shoot with both eyes open as a double cocker. The 1st time I tried the Brock String with T-Bone directing my efforts it took about 40 seconds for me to get both eyes working together (pistol sight - 30" for me) about where the front sights are. After a few months, I can get it in less than a second and has resulted in many more clean shoots (including state and regional matches) without sacrificing speed (other than taking the time to get the sight picture). If I have a smaller target or tough shot, or my eyes aren't working too good at that moment, I will shut my right eye and move the guns to my left-eye sight line. I do much better with my head still than trying to move to the gun. My 1-cent ... Tombstone: Got a chuckle from your post. Good luck down in FL !
Madd Mike #8595 Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Buck What I would like to know is how to reduce left-right muzzle movement while cocking. Get little to none with my right hand, but quite a bit when cocking the left gun. I have watched the cocking motions and cannot tell that I am doing anything different with the left hand, but must be bringing that hammer back at more of a side angle. Very hard to pull the hammer straight back and do it quickly. Any thoughts or suggestions? Cassalong Hopidy the muzzel jump raises the hammer up, for you to cock with yer thumb - faster practice using that bonus movement, instead of fighting that movement that's my story and I am stick-in to it ;)/>
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