Captain Bill Burt Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 The Outlaw Josey Wales is my all time favorite western. I love the character, his guns, the lines, everything. I know this category is recognized at some local clubs, but is not SASS approved. I've often wondered if a true four revolver category was safe and feasible within the SASS world. I know lots of folks think we have too many categories already, and they may be right, but the intent of my post is to prompt discussion of the viability of this particular category based on safety and fun, not the need or lack thereof for a new category. I've included a video of one way I envision this category being used without safety issues. BTW, I haven't practiced this style and I shot the video with only one attempt, so I feel relatively confident that a reasonably proficient shooter can do this without much trouble. I invite any and all comments, though please keep in mind the spirit in which the post is offered. http://youtu.be/28n-J_tiabY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 The Outlaw Josey Wales is my all time favorite western. I love the character, his guns, the lines, everything. I know this category is recognized at some local clubs, but is not SASS approved. I've often wondered if a true four revolver category was safe and feasible within the SASS world. I know lots of folks think we have too many categories already, and they may be right, but the intent of my post is to prompt discussion of the viability of this particular category based on safety and fun, not the need or lack thereof for a new category. I've included a video of one way I envision this category being used without safety issues. BTW, I haven't practiced this style and I shot the video with only one attempt, so I feel relatively confident that a reasonably proficient shooter can do this without much trouble. I invite any and all comments, though please keep in mind the spirit in which the post is offered. http://youtu.be/28n-J_tiabY I GOT THE GOLD, PA:lol:/> A great movie full of great lines. Anyhow I like your idea. Have you pitched it to your local club? Pretty sure that's how things get started. You must get yourself at least one pair of RM Open Tops though. Ya jest caint be Josey without em.:lol:/> Ride easy, Captain Waimea :FlagAm:/> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Hi Bill, We (The Outlaws) offer the category. I can't remember anyone shooting it. You would shoot the rifle targets with two additional pistols. Richmond Roughriders have had two different JW stages at their annual. The stages were all pistol, no rifle or SG. IIRC you used 4 pistols. On one stage, they were staged in provided holsters that hung on a hall tree. The other one had them staged in a cabinet that had doors on top. I thought it was fun. When Hubby's neuropathy first got bad, he tried shooting a 1911 instead of revolvers, rifle, and SG at another club. The President told him he couldn't do it again. That really stunk because Hubby was a founding member. Oh well, that's another story... As with all new categories, it needs numbers and local support before it will make it to the rule book as an official category. IMO local clubs should offer almost any category within reason (another story about what I think is within reason) the shooters want as there is no cost to do so. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 The Outlaw Josey Wales is my all time favorite western. I love the character, his guns, the lines, everything. I know this category is recognized at some local clubs, but is not SASS approved. I've often wondered if a true four revolver category was safe and feasible within the SASS world. I know lots of folks think we have too many categories already, and they may be right, but the intent of my post is to prompt discussion of the viability of this particular category based on safety and fun, not the need or lack thereof for a new category. I've included a video of one way I envision this category being used without safety issues. BTW, I haven't practiced this style and I shot the video with only one attempt, so I feel relatively confident that a reasonably proficient shooter can do this without much trouble. I invite any and all comments, though please keep in mind the spirit in which the post is offered. http://youtu.be/28n-J_tiabY Pretty neat category - there's a few folks that shoot it up in these parts! GG ~ :FlagAm:/> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Easier to stage 2nd set of pistols. No safety concerns about drawing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Easier to stage 2nd set of pistols. No safety concerns about drawing. That'd be a problem for some matches as they would have to provide a table to place the pistols on. Not so bad for one stage but you have to think about it for 6 stages. That's a lot of accommodation for a category that doesn't even officially exist. And you're gonna get push back from a match director for it. With Captain Bill's method the whole thing is portable. Waimea :FlagAm:/> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Brimstone Pistoleros have been offering Josey Wales as a category for years at our yearly match. "Thunder Valley". Thunder Valley categories You can see stages written for categories we offer. Take a look at 1012, 1011 & 2010 stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 That'd be a problem for some matches as they would have to provide a table to place the pistols on. Not so bad for one stage but you have to think about it for 6 stages. That's a lot of accommodation for a category that doesn't even officially exist. And you're gonna get push back from a match director for it. With Captain Bill's method the whole thing is portable. Waimea :FlagAm:/>/> That was the intent of the post to solicit feedback on the idea of what I think of as a 'true' Josey Wales category where the shooter is actually carrying four pistols as opposed to having to stage two of them and no special stage modifications are necessary to accommodate the category. I can understand Yusta's safety concerns, my point is with that method how are the safety concerns any different than for a traditional cross draw shooter? With respect to stages that call for fewer than 10 rifle rounds it seems to me that a careful shooter should be able to load the appropriate number of rounds into the pistol he plans to draw last and index it such that he'll run dry at the appropriate time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 The Great club of Rockford Regulators has been recognizing Josey Wales c category for several years now. I have shot Josey Wales on several occasions. Its a lot of fun ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowdy Ranger Rick Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Captain Bill, From what I've read on various forums the shooting technique isn't really addressed, just 4 pistols and a shotgun required. Doc Holiday's Immortals developed some 'unofficial guidelines', and these may vary from club to club. The 2 'normal' pistols are to be shot gunfighter style, and 'rifle target' pistols are to be shot 'duelist(double?)' style and staged similar to rifle. You've seen the table tops developed at both South River Shootists and Doc Holliday's that go on top of the horses, these would accommodate staging the pistols. Gunfighter category limits you to fixed sight pistols, but in Josey Wales you can shoot Blackhawks Gunfighter style if you desire! This past Summer one Cowboy shot Josey Wales 2-handed for all 4 pistols because he had a physical condition preventing Gunfighter or Duelist. I wasn't involved in developing the guidelines, I just requested some guidance from Doc Holliday's. RRR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calico Mary Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Shot Lady Josey Wales every chance I got for over 2 years.....really miss it! Talk about fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Captain Bill, From what I've read on various forums the shooting technique isn't really addressed, just 4 pistols and a shotgun required. Doc Holiday's Immortals developed some 'unofficial guidelines', and these may vary from club to club. The 2 'normal' pistols are to be shot gunfighter style, and 'rifle target' pistols are to be shot 'duelist(double?)' style and staged similar to rifle. You've seen the table tops developed at both South River Shootists and Doc Holliday's that go on top of the horses, these would accommodate staging the pistols. Gunfighter category limits you to fixed sight pistols, but in Josey Wales you can shoot Blackhawks Gunfighter style if you desire! This past Summer one Cowboy shot Josey Wales 2-handed for all 4 pistols because he had a physical condition preventing Gunfighter or Duelist. I wasn't involved in developing the guidelines, I just requested some guidance from Doc Holliday's. RRR Hey Rick! I had read a little about Josey Wales style, part of the reason I threw this post out for discussion was to introduce the idea that staging the second set of pistols isn't strictly necessary, with practice a person could carry, draw and fire all four pistols without breaking the 170. To me that technique makes the category more robust, requiring no accomodations from the match director. I would be happy allowing people to shoot both sets of pistols gunfighter, duelist, or two handed, whichever they prefer. For example a person who chose to shoot gunfighter should be able to draw cross draw right handed and strong side left, then cross draw left handed and strong side right without breaking the 170. Or duelist would work using a slight modification of the technique I showed in the video. It may be there is just not enough interest in the category to justify adding it, or it might be that as it is currently envisioned (with staging of the second set of pistols required) it imposes to great a burden on match directors. I would love to see Easy Rider shoot a stage with four pistols, it would be a real hoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 A few years ago, after watching the movie for the umpteenth time, I got the urge to shoot a match like Josie. Bless his heart, Fingers McGee gave me permission to try it at a Central Ozarks Western Shooters monthly match. I wore 4 revolvers in belt holsters- an 1851 and an 1860 on each side, and an ROA in a holster worn like a cross-draw shoulder rig under my left arm. I used one pair for the handgun targets, the second pair of holstered revolvers for the rifle targets, and the ROA for the shotgun knockdowns. I loaded the ROA with more than the required number of "shotgun" rounds in case I needed a make-up shot. The TO would read my time to the scorekeeper, then I would discharge any remaining ROA loads while still on the line. What I remember is, I spent the whole day reloading 5 cap and ball revolvers. It was so much fun I haven't done it since! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 The Josey Wales category is one category that I think ought to become an official SASS category. Even though there may be several ways of shooting it. I have heard of at least 3 different variations, I expect more. Variation 1 1. 2 holstered revolvers as 2 revolvers 2. 2 staged revolvers as rifle 3. shotgun. Variation 2 As Variation 1 but use 5th revolver vs shotgun variation 3 As Variation 1 or 2 but shoot holstered revolvers gunfighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Not everyone has two sets of holsters, and not everyone wants to shoot BP or Cap and Ball. I'm setting up a match this way. Traditional Josie 2 cartridge pistols 38 caliber and above. 2 Cap and ball pistols 36 caliber and above or 4 cap and ball pistols single shot big bore rifle 38-55 and above, no handi rifles All black powder. Holstered pair shot dualist or double dualist Second pair will be staged and shot gunfighter. Modern Josie 4 cartridge pistols, any caliber Single shot big bore rifle 38-55 and above, handi rifles are allowed Smokeless powder. Holstered pair shot dualist or double dualist 2nd pair will be staged and shot gunfighter. No shotgun, none were used in the movie. We also determined that shooting shotgun targets with a pistol was un-safe. The target face changes it's angle to the firing line and could cause problems sending lead back at the shooter. Single shot will be 1 to 5 rounds per stage. For non-Josie shooters we would have the stage set up for them with different stage instructions. We're trying to make it interesting for most everyone. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 We allow it at our Wed. shoots at Firelands Peacemakers. Tusco Long Riders allows it at their monthly matches. It's a fun category! Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck Bisley Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Josie shot duelist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 What I remember is, I spent the whole day reloading 5 cap and ball revolvers. It was so much fun I haven't done it since! :ph34r:/> :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T. H. O' Sullivan Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 It'll be more realistic if you get to work on a mouthful of chaw, and spit on a carpetbagger's white suit, or a dog's head. Now that would be fun to watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Mudd Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 That was the intent of the post to solicit feedback on the idea of what I think of as a 'true' Josey Wales category where the shooter is actually carrying four pistols as opposed to having to stage two of them and no special stage modifications are necessary to accommodate the category. I can understand Yusta's safety concerns, my point is with that method how are the safety concerns any different than for a traditional cross draw shooter? With respect to stages that call for fewer than 10 rifle rounds it seems to me that a careful shooter should be able to load the appropriate number of rounds into the pistol he plans to draw last and index it such that he'll run dry at the appropriate time. Have "short" loaded and indexed when shooting Josie wales category. Easy enough to do. Fun category. We stage pistols. Personally don't wish to haul 4 hoglegs around. Lazy old fart; am I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 He shot Gun Fighter when he was in the back of the wagon shooting the troops who had just mowed down his friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy Yukon Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I love shooting the Jossie Wales cat. and do it every year at our annual blackpowder match. It is great fun and a good way to see how well you shoot your pistols. I have shot it both ways one staged and the other all four holstered. I liked it both ways but prefer to stage one set. After carring around four hoglegs straped to your body all day long it sure feels good to get them off at the end of the day! My home club lets me shoot it anytime I want to buy doing it under our Master Gunfighter class. It is a class we started several years ago that a lot of our fastest shooters compete in to shoot against each other any stile that you want. That way we leave all the other cat. open for other people to be able to win and we can just compete against ourselves. It is a challenge and when I shoot it instead of coming in in the top five or ten it is usually in the middle of the pack. It is also fun because in that class I get to use my original 1889 Remington hammered double barrel. If you can shoot a clean match Jossie Wales style you really did something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Josie shot duelist ;)/> Yep. If'n yur gona doer. Doer right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Perhaps doing it right is great for purists, BUT what about the rest of us that just want to have more fun? Should be able to be shot 2 handed if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Denny, SASS #64775L Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I've e-mailed you the approved method for shooting the Josey Wales Category at Doc Holliday's Immortals matches. I watched the video you provided, but SASS rules do not currently allow more than two revolvers/holsters on a holster belt, which is why we require the pistols used in place of the rifle to be staged. For those interested in trying this style, below are the rules approved by our Match Director. Requirements for Josey Wales Category at DHI Any SASS Legal revolvers and powder may be used. Pistols used on pistol targets must be shot Gunfighter style. For safety reasons, pistols used in place of the rifle can be shot in any SASS pistol style, but only one pistol used for the rifle may be in hand when engaging rifle targets. The pistols used in place of the rifle will be loaded with the rounds required for the rifle in the stage description. DHI will provide a staging table in those cases where the rifle is to be staged on a Gun Horse. Only the pistols used in place of the rifle may be staged on that table. Shooter may use four holsters to carry all pistols to the line, but pistols used for the rifle may not be drawn from or returned to a holster during the actual shooting string. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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