Buckhorn Bud Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Pistol targets are 5 yards away. Rifle targets are 20-30 yards away. Instruction states "With rifle engage rifle targets...." Not thinking the shooter picks up the rifle and starts engaging the pistol targets. RO interrupts the shooter after the second or third round and directs the shooter to the proper targets. Granted two misses or one procedural would both be a 10 second penalty but it could have been three misses. (It was a long time ago so I don't remember.) RO1 P23 Miss "Rifle, revolver, and shotgun targets must be engaged with the appropriate type of firearm. A “miss” is defined as the failure to hit the appropriate target type using the appropriate type firearm." P24 Procedural "It is also good to understand 'A MISS CANNOT CAUSE A PROCEDURAL.'" "• Shooting targets in an order other than as required by stage description." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 When the shooter shot the "correct type targets" did he shoot them in the correct order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 However many rifle rounds he put on pistol targets are misses. Depending on how he engaged the rifle targets after that brain fade event could be a P as well. I once had 10 misses putting all rifle rounds on pistol targets. All were "hits" but all were misses. TO, peanut gallery and everyone else at the match insisted I be given just one P. I insisted on my 100 second 10 miss penalty and we all argued about all thru lunch before I could get them convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond S Doug Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 He failed to hit the appropriate type target with the appropriate type firearm. All rounds fired from the rifle that did not hit rifle targets were misses. A miss cannot cause a procedural. Example: If he shot 2 shots at the pistol targets and the TO corrected him, that's 2 misses. His next shot should have been on the third rifle target. If not then P for not hitting the correct third rifle target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckhorn Bud Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 When the shooter shot the "correct type targets" did he shoot them in the correct order? I think so. Like I said it was a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond S Doug Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 However many rifle rounds he put on pistol targets are misses. Depending on how he engaged the rifle targets after that brain fade event could be a P as well. I once had 10 misses putting all rifle rounds on pistol targets. All were "hits" but all were misses. TO, peanut gallery and everyone else at the match insisted I be given just one P. I insisted on my 100 second 10 miss penalty and we all argued about all thru lunch before I could get them convinced. Had a shooter on our posse at Bordertown did the same thing. TO gave a P, I interjected 10 misses, as I was a spotter. TO stood firm and accessed P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Had a shooter on our posse at Bordertown did the same thing. TO gave a P, I interjected 10 misses, as I was a spotter. TO stood firm and accessed P. +1...saw it happen...some people just make their own rules. Although, seems to me... and using this new fangled calculator that 10 misses X 5 seconds...hmmm can't get to 100 even for a varmint like Lone Dog. ;)/> DSD is right about the misses on this OP. If he hit 8 rifle in the correct order then award the shooter 2 misses for hitting the wrong targets. Next Shooter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Pistol targets are 5 yards away. Rifle targets are 20-30 yards away. Instruction states "With rifle engage rifle targets...." Not thinking the shooter picks up the rifle and starts engaging the pistol targets. RO interrupts the shooter after the second or third round and directs the shooter to the proper targets. Granted two misses or one procedural would both be a 10 second penalty but it could have been three misses. (It was a long time ago so I don't remember.) RO1 P23 Miss "Rifle, revolver, and shotgun targets must be engaged with the appropriate type of firearm. A “miss” is defined as the failure to hit the appropriate target type using the appropriate type firearm." P24 Procedural "It is also good to understand 'A MISS CANNOT CAUSE A PROCEDURAL.'" "• Shooting targets in an order other than as required by stage description." You stopped reading too soon... ... • Each target hit with an incorrect firearm, either intentionally or by mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckhorn Bud Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Thank you for all the responses. It wasn't clear to me. The RO gave the shooter 1 P and 1 miss. I knew that wasn't right but he'd been an RO a lot longer than I had so I gave up the argument. Sure, 10 misses times 5 seconds = 100 seconds, but only for the mathematically challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Sure, 10 misses times 5 seconds = 100 seconds, but only for the mathematically challenged. Yeah, but he's a great speller.B)/> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 ... Sure, 10 misses times 5 seconds = 100 seconds, but only for the mathematically challenged. IIRC...(BICBW)...that may have been 20 misses x 5 to get the 100 seconds penalty (actual or hypothetical)?? When he realized he'd shot the pistol targets with his rifle, he shot the rifle targets with his pistols to make up for the error...which only compounded the issue and doubled the number of penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 OOPS!! Yeah mebbeso it were jest 50 seconds or mebbe I did shoot the rifle targets with the pistols too!! Har! (Never post when half asleep)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Don't quite get the logic there. Engaging the wrong targets would earn you a P. Then engaging the correct rifle targets, the shooter wouldn't have enough rifle ammo left to engage all targets. SO if he didn't do a reload(S)the non engaged targets would be MISSES, and if he reloaded for them, he would suffer the reload time. In my estimation, he should have EARNED a P. Then whatever misses he earned for not engaging, or suffer the reload time. Makes sense to me. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Don't quite get the logic there. Engaging the wrong targets would earn you a P. Then engaging the correct rifle targets, the shooter wouldn't have enough rifle ammo left to engage all targets. SO if he didn't do a reload(S)the non engaged targets would be MISSES, and if he reloaded for them, he would suffer the reload time. In my estimation, he should have EARNED a P. Then whatever misses he earned for not engaging, or suffer the reload time. Makes sense to me. RBK Don't let logic get confused with facts. the fact is that he fired the rifle 2 times before he hit a rifle target with his 3rd shot. It doesn't matter if he hit a pistol target or the back of the berm.....he still missed the rifle target and therefore, the shooter only can be given 2 misses. No more and no less. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Don't let logic get confused with facts. the fact is that he fired the rifle 2 times before he hit a rifle target with his 3rd shot. It doesn't matter if he hit a pistol target or the back of the berm.....he still missed the rifle target and therefore, the shooter only can be given 2 misses. No more and no less. ..........Widder ...the shooter COULD HAVE earned a "P" depending on the rifle "order of engagement" and whether the third shot hit the appropriate rifle target. (e.g. "SWEEP R1-R5 twice from L>R"...the 3rd rifle shot (after the first 2 MISSES on R1 & R2) would have to be on R3 to maintain the shooting order) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Don't quite get the logic there. Engaging the wrong targets would earn you a P. Then engaging the correct rifle targets, the shooter wouldn't have enough rifle ammo left to engage all targets. SO if he didn't do a reload(S)the non engaged targets would be MISSES, and if he reloaded for them, he would suffer the reload time. In my estimation, he should have EARNED a P. Then whatever misses he earned for not engaging, or suffer the reload time. Makes sense to me. RBK A shooter does NOT have the option to reload a rifle or revolver to make up MISSES for rounds FIRED that MISS targets...unless the stage directions specifically allow doing so ... OR 9. If a firearm is shot out of sequence or from the wrong position or location, the shooter will be awarded a single procedural penalty. In this situation, if the shooter elects or is forced to miss an appropriate target due to unsafe angles or target availability, a round may be reloaded to avoid a miss penalty (the dreaded “Double Jeopardy” of a procedure and miss). This does not mean a shooter may reload a rifle or revolver at any other time to make up a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 A shooter does NOT have the option to reload a rifle or revolver to make up MISSES for rounds FIRED that MISS targets...unless the stage directions specifically allow doing so ... OR OK Got it !! RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckhorn Bud Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 +1...saw it happen...some people just make their own rules. Although, seems to me... and using this new fangled calculator that 10 misses X 5 seconds...hmmm can't get to 100 even for a varmint like Lone Dog. ;)/>/> DSD is right about the misses on this OP. If he hit 8 rifle in the correct order then award the shooter 2 misses for hitting the wrong targets. Next Shooter! I learned in colledge that 2 + 2 = 5 ...... for very large values of 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 ...the shooter COULD HAVE earned a "P" depending on the rifle "order of engagement" and whether the third shot hit the appropriate rifle target. (e.g. "SWEEP R1-R5 twice from L>R"...the 3rd rifle shot (after the first 2 MISSES on R1 & R2) would have to be on R3 to maintain the shooting order) YEP. I started to interject that into my post but I thought I would just stick with the info the OP had stated and not even confuse 'meowndangself'... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 YEP. I started to interject that into my post but I thought I would just stick with the info the OP had stated and not even confuse 'meowndangself'... ..........Widder Widder, if'n ya can't dazzle dem wif da facts den ya baffle dem wif BS Kajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I learned in colledge that 2 + 2 = 5 ...... for very large values of 2. One of my Dad's favorite lines in the whole world. I laughed till I cried the first time he said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckhorn Bud Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 One of my Dad's favorite lines in the whole world. I laughed till I cried the first time he said it. :lol:/> There's also the one 1 + 1 = 3 if you're not careful. (I think I learned that one in 6th grade.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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