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Charlie Whiskers

Target size

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Heavy duty construction at it's best ........ Lot's of fun but when it needed a "Rebuild" it was desided that the Modern CAS didn't really like it ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, so it was scraped ... I thought it a shame ,,,, I am glad I got in the game before we lost all the moving and novel targets of Yore .... Like Ore carts carrying targets ,or to sit in while shooting ,,, Charginfg life size Grizzly's,,,, Or shooting of the back of a galloping horse ,,,, or running Rabbits,,,, or indians sliding across the stage (downhill between the trees)on a cable ......

 

Or droppers tha launch coal lumps into the air ,,,,,,, or cans of pop ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Cyberbully...that's funny.

 

And demeaning? Where did I??? Where as you seem to get a weird kick outta saying I need professional help.

 

That's too funny!

 

I will not support folks just because they are "Cowboy shooters"...and I don't give a damn whether you see another side of me or not. Seriously, when you get to Texas, you'll be glad to know that there are a lot of great folks here...so please don't feel the need to get to know my "Other" side.

 

dry.gif

 

PS: Thanks for the kind words AA. ;)/>

 

 

Why did I doubt my original assessment? As I have said before, you need to seek professional help... seriously, Cyberbully. This is actually recognized now by the American Psychiatric Association. Good luck.

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Why did I doubt my original assessment? As I have said before, you need to seek professional help... seriously, Cyberbully. This is actually recognized now by the American Psychiatric Association. Good luck.

 

I'm lucky to have a bunch of folks that I can call friends. One of them told me a few things about you...so pardon me if I pass on your generous offer to get to know the "Other" me.

 

:FlagAm:

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I'm lucky to have a bunch of folks that I can call friends. One of them told me a few things about you...so pardon me if I pass on your generous offer to get to know the "Other" me.

 

:FlagAm:/>

 

I've seen all of you I care to see, Cyberbully. Seek professional help.

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It gets demeaning when others post comments like:

 

'all the speedy folks want big and close, stand and deliver'.

 

'those speedy folks don't care about accuracy'

 

'the way it USE TO BE has given way to the speed demons who only want to shoot a 10-10-4 and run 15 second stages'.

 

 

Its comments and attitudes like those above that have very little merit, IF ANY, based on the the folks I know in SASS/CAS.

 

I wish they would start listing clubs and names when making these 'demeaning' remarks about fellow shooters.

 

 

I won't dare speak for Phantom. But I know exactly where he is coming from when he gets alittle tee'd off at some of the comments posted on this Wire. Where most of us just continue to read all this unsubstantiated rubbish, Phantom calls some folks on it. And all of a sudden, he becomes the bad boy on the Wire.

I don't think so.

 

And that is my Monday morning breakfast thoughts!

 

Y'all have a good day and try to keep a good thought.

 

 

..........Widder

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How would you feel about shooting a Knock-down ( set to fall with "Bearcat".22) with your rifle to release a charging Grizzly that must be engaged as it comes sliding downhill straight at you ... You have a 8 foot tall by mostly 3 foot wide(wider at the shoulders)griz comming at you that must be shot with the 9 rounds remaining in your rifle BEFORE it stops just 7 yards from your face... Only rounds striking the bear while it is moving count as hits ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

 

Have shoot movong targets at many shoots. EOT is one of them.

They have a couple of moving targets.

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It gets demeaning when others post comments like:

 

'all the speedy folks want big and close, stand and deliver'.

 

'those speedy folks don't care about accuracy'

 

'the way it USE TO BE has given way to the speed demons who only want to shoot a 10-10-4 and run 15 second stages'.

 

 

Its comments and attitudes like those above that have very little merit, IF ANY, based on the the folks I know in SASS/CAS.

 

I wish they would start listing clubs and names when making these 'demeaning' remarks about fellow shooters.

 

 

I won't dare speak for Phantom. But I know exactly where he is coming from when he gets alittle tee'd off at some of the comments posted on this Wire. Where most of us just continue to read all this unsubstantiated rubbish, Phantom calls some folks on it. And all of a sudden, he becomes the bad boy on the Wire.

I don't think so.

 

And that is my Monday morning breakfast thoughts!

 

Y'all have a good day and try to keep a good thought.

 

 

..........Widder

 

+1

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It gets demeaning when others post comments like:

 

'all the speedy folks want big and close, stand and deliver'.

 

'those speedy folks don't care about accuracy'

 

'the way it USE TO BE has given way to the speed demons who only want to shoot a 10-10-4 and run 15 second stages'.

 

 

Its comments and attitudes like those above that have very little merit, IF ANY, based on the the folks I know in SASS/CAS.

 

I wish they would start listing clubs and names when making these 'demeaning' remarks about fellow shooters.

 

 

I won't dare speak for Phantom. But I know exactly where he is coming from when he gets alittle tee'd off at some of the comments posted on this Wire. Where most of us just continue to read all this unsubstantiated rubbish, Phantom calls some folks on it. And all of a sudden, he becomes the bad boy on the Wire.

I don't think so.

 

And that is my Monday morning breakfast thoughts!

 

Y'all have a good day and try to keep a good thought.

 

 

..........Widder

 

+1

Don't see how some folks can not get it through there head. That the so called SPEEDY shooters. LOVE movement.

Most don't really like S&D stages.

And that those big and close targets. Help the middle of the road shooter, to the lower end shooter WAY MORE than anybody.

 

And they can not seem to understand. That if they can hit those targets shooting 17 second stages. And do it clean.

They can dang sure hit the smaller ones also. Not all that speed comes from just firing the gun. It is in there transitions

also. And most all have better shooting skill and better fundamentals period.

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Jabez,

They ain't all gone! Down here we shoot alot of that kind of stuff.

 

Thanks to the engineering skills of our rangemaster, we have a target that moves about 30' across the stage, a swinger, an electric rotating gallery target with knockdowns that reset themselves and excellent knockdown racks. We commonly shoot a Texas Star, snakes off of logs and big knockdown targets that launch birds.

 

Nearly every scenario has some movement and we shoot targets from as close as 5 yards to 25 yards.

 

We have lines to start nearly every scenario, too.

 

Possum

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+1

Don't see how some folks can not get it through there head. That the so called SPEEDY shooters. LOVE movement.

Most don't really like S&D stages.

And that those big and close targets. Help the middle of the road shooter, to the lower end shooter WAY MORE than anybody.

 

And they can not seem to understand. That if they can hit those targets shooting 17 second stages. And do it clean.

They can dang sure hit the smaller ones also. Not all that speed comes from just firing the gun. It is in there transitions

also. And most all have better shooting skill and better fundamentals period.

 

Well said!

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Over the years of CAS, I've noticed that many clubs are getting restrictions from the host range. Targets that seemed big and close, now have to be moved back to berms and all ammo must strike the berms. So 16X16 are now very small, card suits after being hit several times seem smaller to those without perfect eyesight. And the plate racks with 8" plates for shotguns, have to be shot from minimum 15 yards.

I'm seeing more clubs being restricted, and one club I shot at, the host range will not allow any movement, so all stages are stand and deliver. Not having targets larger then 16X16, and having shooters stand and deliver, the club is now having to buy all larger targets for their pistol targets, they're eliminating all suits, and just concentrating on circles, and squares.MT

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It gets demeaning when others post comments like:

 

'all the speedy folks want big and close, stand and deliver'.

 

'those speedy folks don't care about accuracy'

 

'the way it USE TO BE has given way to the speed demons who only want to shoota 10-10-4 and run 15 second stages'.

 

Its comments and attitudes like those above that have very little merit, IFANY, based on the the folks I know in SASS/CAS.

 

I wish they would start listing clubs and names when making these 'demeaning' remarksabout fellow shooters.

 

I won't dare speak for Phantom. But I know exactly where he is coming from whenhe gets alittle tee'd off at some of the comments posted on this Wire. Wheremost of us just continue to read all this unsubstantiated rubbish, Phantomcalls some folks on it. And all of a sudden, he becomes the bad boy on theWire.

I don't think so.

 

And that is my Monday morning breakfast thoughts!

 

Y'all have a good day and try to keep a good thought.

 

 

..........Widder

 

There is a grain of truth in all of those statements, Widder, but I have beenaround long enough to know what most folks want. This may vary by region, butit shouldn't vary that much. I make it a point to ask 3-4 different shootersafter each match what they liked and didn't like after each match. It doesn'ttake long to figure out what most folks want in our region. They don't want stages that are a memorycontest. They DO like movement,especially downrange but like a S&D stage mixed in. They DO like those 18" pistol targetsset at 6 yards. They DO like those16" rifle targets set at 15 yards or less. They want fallers to go downwith any SASS legal load. Andcontrary to what you read on the Wire, they DO like an occasional bonus target. They don't like on the clock non-shooting events such as roping a fencepost, or throwing a hatchet, but don't mind it as a preamble to the stage.

 

That said, it is a club's right to do whatever they want to do. Just because itdoes not meet with approval from the vocal folks on the Wire does not make then idiots. It makes themdifferent. One of the fastest and most accurate women in SASS just loves theold time stages (what I call circus stages), but she blazes on the fast stagesas well. People will vote with their feet if the match gets too crazy.

 

So when a certain shooter makes comments like 'full of crap', 'load of igorance', 'BAHBAH sheep', 'bunch of crap', 'fake personalities', 'jerkish remark', and 'I don't care', people get rightfully upset. They have no place on the Wire IMHO, andif this attitude carried over to the range at my club, the person would be asked to leave for interpersonal conflict. Just my thoughts over a second cup of coffee this morning,on a gray and rainy PNW day. We should all be promoting SASS if we want it to survive.

 

Best,

 

Okie

 

Edited for pagenation

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And I"m more than a little SICK OF THOSE THAT EQUATE SLOW SHOOTERS ,WITH NOT BEING ABLE TO SHOOT ACCURATELY !!!

As in "Big Targets help the slower shooters more than the Top Shooters that will hit anyway" !!!!

 

I have a baddly busted-up back that Slows me down a might ,,,,,,,,, BUT I AIN'T FERGOT HOW TO SHOOT !!!

 

At the one Club I shoot at I have expended 13 rounds in knocking down a 1 inch by 18 inch rod Shot at 50 yards of hand,in my last ten times shooting that stage (twice a year for the last 5 years) 2 of those misses were with the rifle and I missed the first round with my Open Top once ... The shooting is done "Unsuported" though duelist May use both hands for this target"

I shot my Open Top ,,,, Duelist !!! and yep it took the second round to get the job done ....

 

So while I can't keep-up in the movement ,,,,, I personaly don't see my shooting being SUB-PARR !!!

 

But I can miss when I push a little harder than I should for speed .... That includes my only miss at this years Canadian Nationals .... :o

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Okie Sawbones,

 

A big fat PLUS 1 on your above post.

 

There is absolutely no reason you could concoct, to justfy the mean spirited, condecending, and downright inflamatory remarks made by an individual, simply because they disagree with someone elses statement.

 

It's perfectly OK to disagree. However it can be done in a civil manner. Highly derogatory remarks simply do not belong an the wire. PERIOD.

 

This is a public forum, and to promote CAS, we should all keep it civil. Prospective new members can easily be turned off with such blatant and inflamatory discourse. There's absolutely no excuse for it. It's simply WRONG.

 

RBK

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And I"m more than a little SICK OF THOSE THAT EQUATE SLOW SHOOTERS ,WITH NOT BEING ABLE TO SHOOT ACCURATELY !!!

As in "Big Targets help the slower shooters more than the Top Shooters that will hit anyway" !!!!

 

I have a baddly busted-up back that Slows me down a might ,,,,,,,,, BUT I AIN'T FERGOT HOW TO SHOOT !!!

 

At the one Club I shoot at I have expended 13 rounds in knocking down a 1 inch by 18 inch rod Shot at 50 yards of hand,in my last ten times shooting that stage (twice a year for the last 5 years) 2 of those misses were with the rifle and I missed the first round with my Open Top once ... The shooting is done "Unsuported" though duelist May use both hands for this target"

I shot my Open Top ,,,, Duelist !!! and yep it took the second round to get the job done ....

 

So while I can't keep-up in the movement ,,,,, I personaly don't see my shooting being SUB-PARR !!!

 

But I can miss when I push a little harder than I should for speed .... That includes my only miss at this years Canadian Nationals .... :o/>/>/>

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

You are talking about ONE PERSON. I am talking about SASS as a whole.

Not about ONE PERSON.

 

Take ANY big match of 250 shooters and above. That way you get a good mix of shooters.

 

Add up the misses for the top 20 shooters.

Then do the same for the 20 in the middle.

And agian for those at the bottom.

 

That will tell you just who is missing the most.

 

Move those targets out. And use the same shooters and add up the misses

And then agian see who is missing more and who those big targets help more.

 

That stage you was talking about sounds like a real club builder. :wacko:/>/> :blink:/>/>

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There is a grain of truth in all of those statements, Widder, but I have beenaround long enough to know what most folks want. This may vary by region, butit shouldn't vary that much. I make it a point to ask 3-4 different shootersafter each match what they liked and didn't like after each match. It doesn'ttake long to figure out what most folks want in our region. They don't want stages that are a memorycontest. They DO like movement,especially downrange but like a S&D stage mixed in. They DO like those 18" pistol targetsset at 6 yards. They DO like those16" rifle targets set at 15 yards or less. They want fallers to go downwith any SASS legal load. Andcontrary to what you read on the Wire, they DO like an occasional bonus target. They don't like on the clock non-shooting events such as roping a fencepost, or throwing a hatchet, but don't mind it as a preamble to the stage.

 

That said, it is a club's right to do whatever they want to do. Just because itdoes not meet with approval from the vocal folks on the Wire does not make then idiots. It makes themdifferent. One of the fastest and most accurate women in SASS just loves theold time stages (what I call circus stages), but she blazes on the fast stagesas well. People will vote with their feet if the match gets too crazy.

 

So when a certain shooter makes comments like 'full of crap', 'load of igorance', 'BAHBAH sheep', 'bunch of crap', 'fake personalities', 'jerkish remark', and 'I don't care', people get rightfully upset. They have no place on the Wire IMHO, andif this attitude carried over to the range at my club, the person would be asked to leave for interpersonal conflict. Just my thoughts over a second cup of coffee this morning,on a gray and rainy PNW day. We should all be promoting SASS if we want it to survive.

 

Best,

 

Okie

 

Edited for pagenation

 

Typical that you take remarks out of context to try and make your position more palatable.

 

Take a second out of your busy schedule and read exactly what it was that I was objecting to in the thread.

 

If you think I'm blindly, recklessly...randomly attacking folks on a personal level (other then you), which you do, then show me where. Without taking things out of context.

 

Do it or shut up.

 

If I'm wrong, then I'll apologize.

 

Phantom

:FlagAm:

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Typical that you take remarks out of context to try and make your position more palatable.

 

Take a second out of your busy schedule and read exactly what it was that I was objecting to in the thread.

 

If you think I'm blindly, recklessly...randomly attacking folks on a personal level (other then you), which you do, then show me where. Without taking things out of context.

 

Do it or shut up.

 

If I'm wrong, then I'll apologize.

 

Phantom

:FlagAm:/>

 

Give it a rest, Cyberbully. Have you called your doc yet? Take that first step.

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Give it a rest, Cyberbully. Have you called your doc yet? Take that first step.

 

So you can't...got it.

 

I'll just file you in the same place as TJB.

 

Well done.

 

:wacko:

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geeese

fellers

 

targets should vary in size, shape and size

so that folks dont git to booooored, when shooting stages

 

shooters vary in size, shape and size, too (thought process)

 

cant we all just git along in cas

 

and fight the larger problems facing CAS in the long haul ;)

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geeese

fellers

 

targets should vary in size, shape and size

so that folks dont git to booooored, when shooting stages

 

shooters vary in size, shape and size, too (thought process)

 

cant we all just git along in cas

 

and fight the larger problems facing CAS in the long haul ;)/>

 

Heyya MM!!!

 

I agree 100%.

 

My issue is with folks that make blanket statements such as folks today don't know what the word accuracy means...or folks today can only go fast if the targets are as big as a barn door...and set at 3 feet away.

 

That's a bunch of crap. You know it and I know it...but heaven forbid anyone say that making these kind of statements is ignorant...or full of crap. Ohhhhh no, cause then you are a mean and rude jerk.

 

Hope yer doin' well...come on out to TEXAS and shoot our State Championship. I'll buy ya round ;)

 

Phantom

:FlagAm:

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Ok...I see where I made a mistake in wording then I said some like targets big as a garage door and others like them small and challenging.That started a fire storm in here.How I should have worded it was small and in thier mindset more of a challenge.Yes most are middle of the road or below shooters that think of small targets that way.Yes the good shooters will 99.9% of the time always do better on any size target.You don't get good by shooting only BIG targets.You get good by practicing,and that will carry over to any size target.Now...can we just get back to the original post question?I've gotten some much appreciated feedback on the original question,but out of 120+ replies...probably less than 10%.

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Ok...I see where I made a mistake in wording then I said some like targets big as a garage door and others like them small and challenging.That started a fire storm in here.How I should have worded it was small and in thier mindset more of a challenge.Yes most are middle of the road or below shooters that think of small targets that way.Yes the good shooters will 99.9% of the time always do better on any size target.You don't get good by shooting only BIG targets.You get good by practicing,and that will carry over to any size target.Now...can we just get back to the original post question?I've gotten some much appreciated feedback on the original question,but out of 120+ replies...probably less than 10%.

 

Go as big as you can. If you want the target to be...smaller...move it back.

 

And your wording isn't what got me in a huff. It was actually Buglar...or...something like that.

 

Cheers!

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So you can't...got it.

 

I'll just file you in the same place as TJB.

 

Well done.

 

:wacko:/>

 

 

Man, you are seriously in denial. Seek help NOW. I'm done with you. Wow! :wacko:/> :wacko:/> :wacko:/>

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Heyya MM!!!

 

I agree 100%.

 

My issue is with folks that make blanket statements such as folks today don't know what the word accuracy means...or folks today can only go fast if the targets are as big as a barn door...and set at 3 feet away.

 

That's a bunch of crap. You know it and I know it...but heaven forbid anyone say that making these kind of statements is ignorant...or full of crap. Ohhhhh no, cause then you are a mean and rude jerk.

 

Hope yer doin' well...come on out to TEXAS and shoot our State Championship. I'll buy ya round ;)/>/>

 

Phantom

:FlagAm:/>/>

 

 

Looks like I might get 'close' to TEXAS next year because I'm planning to shoot Hell Fire in September (Louisiana).

 

Let me know if you're gona venture over the state line for this one and I 'might' buy you a round. As bad a person as you are, I might have to wear a bag over my head so knowbody will knows its me who is buying you a cold one......... :lol:/>

 

Shucks, I might even toss in a good supper on top of the cold one.

 

AND BRING MADD MIKE WITH YA!

 

 

..........Widder

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Looks like I might get 'close' to TEXAS next year because I'm planning to shoot Hell Fire in September (Louisiana).

 

Let me know if you're gona venture over the state line for this one and I 'might' buy you a round. As bad a person as you are, I might have to wear a bag over my head so knowbody will knows its me who is buying you a cold one......... :lol:/>/>

 

Shucks, I might even toss in a good supper on top of the cold one.

 

AND BRING MADD MIKE WITH YA!

 

 

..........Widder

 

I would love to shoot Slick's match. He knows how to put on a party...I mean Shoot. :P

 

And no worries, I'll supply the bag. :rolleyes:

 

Phantom...who apparently needs professional help :lol:

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Phantom,if you need help call me and let me know who you use and I will go to.

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Have shot with Phantom. One of the funnest to shoot with.

Hard worker, funny, jokes with others and at himself. Willing to help anyone that wants it.

Will shoot with him anytime.

He is all about growning SASS. And has a good understanding about what it takes

to get shooters what they want to help it grow.

Tells it like he sees it. Don't hind anything. Just lays it out there.

Looking forward to shooting his stages at Texas State 2013.

+1. Well said, Al.

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Phantom,if you need help call me and let me know who you use and I will go to.

 

Heeheehee...maybe we could get a group discount!

 

:lol:

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+1. Well said, Al.

 

Hope that means yer comin to the STATE!!!!

 

;)

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When and where is state this year?Would like to shoot state again.As for a target size,at Orange and Lake Charles we have big and small,near and far ,swingers and sliders, ones that go around,one that you knock down that throw birds or coke cans.Lots on movement and something different at every shoot. Don't think I have ever seen a stand and deliver.Come on down.

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Target size and target placement matter more than prizes and parties. At a recent festive shoot in the Great Republic on a planet far away, their was only 1 clean shooter out of 100. The shoot only attracted 100 out of a shooter population that is larger than most galaxies and has no competing shoots at the same time. It is also a well established and one of the most scenic venues in the area.

 

I'm sure that other factors are involved, but nothing quite as glaring as target size and placement will drive away customers and keep them away for a long time.

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There are exceptions to every situation, but as a rule (dare I say it?), the faster shooters are also the most accurate shooters...at least within this game and other similar shooting games where speed and accuracy combine for the best score. But then that makes perfect sense.

 

 

I don't mean this as vain, but I'm a pretty fast shooter. With that said, almost without fail, those who beat me are not only faster than me, they are also more accurate than me. While I'm not Mr. Missit, I do have a miss sometimes, but danged if the guys who are shooting faster don't seem to hit more consistently than me. Even if they (and I) shoot clean, if you watch their shot placement, they tend to hit more in the center of the targets. It's part of what makes them fast. I can and have shown hard statistics that backs this up. It has teed-off some people who don't want to hear it. It's not my intention, but I do like facts. Those who have spoken here about how far and away targets cause more misses with slower shooters are doing nothing but stating, minus the statistical data, what anyone who watches and pays attention knows to be true. It's not rocket science, it's a red barn in a green field- very obvious.

 

This is not a put down on anyone. If so, I would have to consider myself put down by those who beat me like a bass drum. FWIW, I have found the best way to slow down a really fast shooter...is to stomp their toes. :D

 

Oh, one more thing. Until this past weekend, I don't remember the last time I shot a stand and deliver stage, but we definitely had one Sunday. I think Badlands Bob must have been behind it. Curse you Evil Bob! :) Guns in any order shot at Big Ned, 10-10-4 with no misses or P's. The only penalty you could get was a safety penalty. Many a shooter crashed and burned. Personally, I was only a couple seconds faster than I can shoot the same number of rounds placed on normal sized targets at normal distances. Sidekick, who anyone who knows him knows he's a greased lighting, world class shooter, actually shot another stage faster.

 

 

 

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When and where is state this year?Would like to shoot state again.As for a target size,at Orange and Lake Charles we have big and small,near and far ,swingers and sliders, ones that go around,one that you knock down that throw birds or coke cans.Lots on movement and something different at every shoot. Don't think I have ever seen a stand and deliver.Come on down.

 

First weekend of May at Plum Creek Shooting Society in Lockhart Texas.

 

Come on down and play...it'll be FUN!!!!!

 

Phantom

:FlagAm:

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Looks like I might get 'close' to TEXAS next year because I'm planning to shoot Hell Fire in September (Louisiana).

 

Let me know if you're gona venture over the state line for this one and I 'might' buy you a round. As bad a person as you are, I might have to wear a bag over my head so knowbody will knows its me who is buying you a cold one......... :lol:/>/>

 

Shucks, I might even toss in a good supper on top of the cold one.

 

AND BRING MADD MIKE WITH YA!

 

 

..........Widder

 

yikes

I may have ta cross to the other side of the muddy again ;)

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